I have a theory, not yet a belief, about Redpill and ego after beginning to read A New Earth by Eckharte Tolle. I will talk about the ego throughout the post, and am referring to it as "An identity which is limiting":
Redpill ideology is an egoic response to an egoic reality (another way we define our identities). RedPill makes sense in winning/progressing in an egoic battle but it will not succeed in true happiness, which is dropping of the self and being one with life itself. Why? because it puts you in a group identity which by definition means that there is an out-group.
The Red Pill makes a lot of sense, it accurately conveys how women act in reality, I do not deny this. However, I think the assumption that this applies to women significantly over men is untrue in a biological or psychological sense, that is, before you bring social conditioning into the mix. What we are taught i.e. cultural narratives and how they proliferate upon the social landscape like feedback from a microphone generating more feedback until all you can hear is a heart-wrenching high pitch. My basic assumption here is that both men and women have the capacity to be relentlessly self-interested, however
1) women are not cultured to be self-reliant, it's socially acceptable and rewarded, while men have no choice but to move on a path to self-actualization to be regarded
2) women have been pedestaled by social commentary while men have been de-valued
3) women are the gatekeepers of sex, men of commitment (sex is socially viewed as more valuable, because of the narratives we live under)
So in a nutshell; the potential for either sex to remain in lower consciousness is the same, but the cultural climate and biological power dynamic leads to men being required to develop their consciousness while women can remain underdeveloped by comparison.
The question I want to ask is; is the RedPill path another leading to an identity rooted in ego (basing our worth of identity), and therefore unhappiness? Instead of genuine communion with male and female, is this breeding separation (in the way that saying you are European or Christian puts you in a group, isolating you in some sense from those who are not European or Christian)? Or is it a means to true communion between men and women? Will a redpiller, on his deathbed, look back and realize he excluded himself from the kingdom of life and love by separating himself from a segment of the whole, and as such not feeling completely a part of the whole or the whole itself?
Someone in another recent post said that it is empathizing with women by looking at the world through a Red Pill lense; from taking a metaphorical walk in their shoes, we can better be the yin to their yang. This makes a lot of sense to me, however I worry that being a redpiller could be an identity which cuts me off, not just from women, but from non-redpillers in a way that is actually self-limiting. Even if this is very subtle.
Edit: OR More appropriately, is there an optimal way to approach The Red Pill, taking this into account?
Edit #2: In fact, more consciousness of the ego leads to it's dissolution because ego cannot survive when it has been outsed as unintelligent (not for your greater good/useful) - Once one truly and viscerally realizes something is a hinder to themselves, it cannot be continued. So under that assumption, The Red Pill makes us more conscious of ego, and therefore more capable of transcending it. I retract my question, but will leave this here should it help someone else and because I would love further comment if you have anything to add.
[deleted] 9y ago
The Red Pill shows you that life will always be a struggle until you die. there is no end game, there is no finish line. It just simply is. You have to maintain your skill level, whatever that is to you, on a daily basis and constantly improve because one day you will be in decline according to natural law and you will die either from inability to maintain/get better or old age.
A cheetah has to hunt however frequent no matter his skill level, it is always challenging. A day may pass where he doesn't eat, he has to try harder or change tactics or go after weaker prey until he gets his strength.
The moment he can no longer hunt, He's doomed to die, doomed to scavenge, doomed to a lot of things that aren't pretty.
All of this is at a great cost of energy every.single.day.
No cheetah is eyeing a group of gazelles going... fuck this I'm going to hunt down the biggest, fastest, baddest gazzelle because i love a good challenge, nah. This fuck is going to use whatever tactic he can every single day to get fed.
That action personifies his speed, his skill, his determination, strength, agility, physical prowess, everything... in the 20-30 min or however long it takes for him to catch the gazelle.
He has to keep that frame "if you will" as long as humanly possible.
Its chaotic... Cheetas die, gazelles die, there's territorial areas. animals fight for land and so on. That is the way, if they cant succeed they're dead.
So, nothing about your description is pretty just like the law of the jungle isn't either. That's just us humans labeling what we think is fair and unfair. We have the ability to judge all the actions of everyone and classify it on some sort of moral scale.
So, AWALT and everything else you've read on here.... Get back out there and hunt.
RantP 9y ago
This reminds me of RSDTyler's talk on "life is hard, but do it anyway." It made me think that the point to living is to become a sharp tool. From the position of being a sharp tool, one is capable of getting his own needs met. Your metaphor illustrates this well.
In society we make a trade-off; our time and the following of certain 'customs' are implicit in this social contract. In return we gain the easy ability to feed, clothe, seek socially, maintain a degree of safety. We are operating in a cushioned version of natural law - leading to a more nuanced existence and complicated cause and effect. Our pre-frontal cortex means that there is another layer above the lizard brain saying: do this, do this, survive. It is helpful in society because it helps us not to break boundaries we shouldn't etc. However, our higher brains also encumber us with a lot of faulty conditioning and structures that align with our subjective experience, but not necessarily with the reality that we find ourselves in when we grow up, or just in general. This is the problem I have found myself in, a lot of my mental narrative is not useful any more, and even hinders my life...
This is why RedPill and Tolle are such a godsend to me at this time.
Thank you for your words, they helped me reinforce the need to balance direct 'hard work' and awareness.
MrEiffel 9y ago
It is the fundamental difference between a Utopian and a Pessimist worldview.
On the one hand, the Utopiean vision of Tolle/Rousseau/Marx/etc.. believes in the goodness of man and the realisation of an ideal Utopian world where everyone is happy and living in harmony. The difficulty is the journey getting there. In RP/BP dynamics this is the Blue pill person that believe he can have the perfect family as long as he works hard and does what he's supposed to do.
On the other hand, the Pessimist vision of Lock/Descartes/Hobbes/etc.. believes in the fundamental flawedness of Man. We are all, men & women, capable of horrible things giving the right motivation and opportunities and this is normal behaviour. Utopia has no meaning since it cannot exist as long as man is present. In RP/BP this is the RP man that uses all leverage he has to attain the goals he wants (plates/OLTR/Marriage) while understanding life is a battle that only ends with his death.
So yeah, pick your poison.
RantP 9y ago
I am inclined to believe in the pessimistic view on a global scale (atleast within my lifetime), but a Utopian ideal individually. AKA seek enlightenment.
Your response has helped me clarify this and given me some further reading. Thank you.
MrEiffel 9y ago
That doesn't make any sense.
A Pessimistic "realistic" worldview is based on the premise that all people are inherently flawed and consequently any Utopean ideal is an illusion. From this flows naturally that you yourself are flawed and any pursuit of harmonious perfect enlightenment is simply repressing your true self. In a Buddist sense, enlightenment is only achieved when you detach yourself from all your human wants and desires, in order words, when you detach yourself from your own humanity.
Mental self-improvement is certainly important and I'm personally a fan of a large part of the Power of Now, but this should be viewed as a journey to explore, understand and accept yourself as you are, with all its flaws.
RantP 9y ago
What I mean is, I want to work toward an ideal of dispelling as much ego and dissatisfaction as I can in myself. But I make no claims to being able to pursue the same in others or on a world scale, nor do I expect any movement in that direction in the near future.
I agree with you that all people are inherently flawed too, and it's good to be reminded that there is no such thing as perfection (because it's so easy to turn the reality of imperfection into negative thinking and emotion). I hope this clarifies.
kingofpoplives 9y ago
With as much self awareness as possible.
The Red Pill is like an instruction manual with technical specifications for romantic relationships. It's the way this information is put into practice that will determine if it's liberating of limiting.
A lot of TRP guys have issues connected to romantic relationships, and this can easily lead to obsession with TRP and dating and sex in general. But, participating in TRP is also a means of working through these issues, even if the short terms results might not be pretty.
Over the course of my RP journey, I've gone through periods where I was definitely fixated in an unbalanced way. But I've also made a great deal of peace with the realities of the male-female dynamic, and this has been extremely liberating. The key is to keep an eye out for when something may be getting unhealthy and adjust accordingly.
RantP 9y ago
Maybe sometimes those unconscious periods are part of the progress too. But yes, as much self awareness as possible is the best strategy to minimize mistakes and regrets. Thanks for your response.
kingofpoplives 9y ago
I agree, they definitely are.
Ojisan1 9y ago
If you read Tolle carefully (which I suspect that you have done, based on the amount of thought that you put into your post) you will be aware that he does not suggest that erasing the ego is desirable or good. The egoic self is a part of you, a natural function. It just happens to be one that is over-used and prevents us from being present in the moment. If you are trying to build a house, thinking in terms of past (experience and learning) and future (designing and planning construction) are useful things. Thinking about those things when you are trying to nail a beam into place would be distracting from the present moment and you're likely to hammer your thumb. ;)
I think of it this way - ego identification and thought are useful in certain contexts or situations, otherwise they wouldn't exist. But they are not the whole story, even though in our modern lives most people make them the whole story. Reading Tolle, or learning Buddhism, or practicing meditation, are necessary because we spend so much of our lives not in the present moment. But only a pure enlightened spirit lives in the present moment 24/7. Most of us are lucky to have awareness enough to even try to be present some of the time in our daily lives.
Analogy: the number zero isn't real, I can't point to something in space and say "there is zero". But it is very useful for solving certain types of problems, math, physics, accounting. Similarly, red pill is a tool like zero - it is useful for solving certain types of problems in certain contexts or situations.
It is a choice you are making to identify as a "Redpiller" but that is not a necessary choice. Redpill is a useful tool, or a useful set of information, just like a map is a useful tool if I am trying to get around in an unfamiliar city. But I would not create the ego identification of "mapper" simply because I used a map. I use it when I need it, but it doesn't create my identity.
Use Redpill ideas as a map for navigating the world of male-female interactions, or a map to navigate the concept of being a man in the social world, but you can do this without making Redpill your identity if that is not your goal.
RantP 9y ago
Good point; compartmentalizing when to, still consciously, think and when to be present sounds as though it would optimize effectiveness!
It sounds as though you are familiar with Tolle, can I ask you if there are some specific ways that have been effective for you in turning Tolle or TRP into a practical reality?
RedditArgument 9y ago
Trp is just one of hundreds of other things I could identify with, it in no way imprisons me in some group thinking. Humans love throwing things and people into groups to make life easier to understand, but as an individual you get to decide. Do you define yourself by 1 group or do you define yourself as you, a unique individual with unique sets of ideas, circumstances, and ways of life.
I have in no way cut emotion from my life, although I better control it. I still love just as much if not more than before, however I am conscious of the effects of it. Awareness does not equal a lack of what you are aware of, it is simply that: awareness. I don't think ego really needs to get in the way of anything, and from being aware of it naturally you can choose to prevent it from doing so.
RantP 9y ago
Thanks mate!