Red Pill women won't have sex without monogamy. Red Pill Men, on rare occasions upgrade plates to LTR's, but (unless I'm reading this way wrong), a woman is a plate because while she might be hot she is generally of low value. How does this ever actually work out in the real world?
Edit: I have things to say/ask to many of you. But I just got off work, so I will get back to you in the AM.
LordXarnor 9y ago
I'm new to the concept of red-pill women, forgive me if I'm doubtful because I'm pretty sure histrionics and hypergamous women also claim they won't have sex without monogamy.
What exactly differentiates RPW and the group of rotten apples I've mentioned?
-drukpa-kunley- 10y ago
Redpill women aren't born. They are created by men, starting with their father.
pleasedontknowme30 10y ago
Another reason why we need a married / LTR flair or. RedpillLTR sub
tylerdurden100 10y ago
Could not agree with you more. I dont know why this does not exist. It would actually be useful unlike half of the existing subreddits
aaron_the_just 10y ago
Short answer: they don't. A Red Pill man goes out and finds a suitable woman and trains her/leads her into being the kind of woman he wants her to be. (And she usually greatly enjoys the journey.)
Your typical "Red Pill woman" is already married and is looking to improve her current relationship.
RPW is full of either neurotic 17 year olds, or happily married 40 year old women. Leave the young'ns alone - the older women are doing their handiwork to help turn them from neurotic young things into sensible women. Which is how society worked back before things got all broken.
sparkleselite 10y ago
The red pill is about getting bullshit out of your life and focusing on improving yourself. If you want a LTR then pursue a LTR. Not all red pill men need to spin plates. Just take charge of your life.
whimsicalweasel 10y ago
I should clarify that I'm a woman who wants a LTR.
aaron_the_just 10y ago
Of course you are, you're a woman.
MegMartinson 10y ago
RPW here, F(40-ish).
I have a red pill man. We have known one another since childhood. Our families (parents) are close friends before either of us was a gleam in our fathers' eyes. We began dating about 11th grade and having sex about the same time. -- Yes, I insisted on monogamy before the sex. He agreed and so it has been since.
Our parents are the models of "old school" gender roles: mom [mostly] stays home to take care of homelife and children; dad brings home the bacon and is undisputed head of household (HoH).
Our cultural backgrounds are similar on many fronts. Professional parents, traditional role models, religious (Catholic) upbringing (recovering Catholics now), similar upper middle class lifestyles. The similarity helps avoid surprises that can happen where values caused by cultural differences exist.
IOW: it just happended for us. Were it not to have happened the way it did, it is likely that we'd both still be unpartnered. -- We were the geeks of our era. In effect shunned and occassionally bullied by the "in crowd", especially in middle school, less in high school because we are both formidable opponents to pick on because of our sizes (I'm 6'1", he's 6'4"; well conditioned, with enough scraps in middle school to make all but the most bold think twice before engaging). We were studious, STEM focused and not into sports). Yup. Not in the mainstream of social relevance at the time.
How do you find a match today? I would imagine the answer would be to place yourself where someone you'd like to meet would go. Meetup has many mutual interest groups that may serve. Church young adult groups, if you are a church going type and can avoid a church that has sold out to the feminist dogma of "... I'm not happy! So fuck the obedient wife shit! I want a frivorce" crap.
I'd suggest the place to NOT find a RPW might be in a bar or club setting. We just do NOT go there.
Zaorish9 10y ago
Agreed on the bar or club setting. Seems like the only type of person you'd find there is a promiscuous one.
sparkleselite 10y ago
Gotcha. How old are you? If you're fairly young you should try to find men who have solidified their careers and are ready to have a family. Where you'll meet these men I have no idea. Your local art museum or orchestra concert would be a good place to start.
whimsicalweasel 10y ago
Solid advice, but its not really what I'm asking. I'm more curious about how the two sides of the red pill ever escape from the Catch-22 situation we have put ourselves in. We both have something the other party wants, but our advice to ourselves is not to give it to someone until we have what we want. In this instance, men want sex. Women want commitment. Men of the redpill are not willing to give commitment before sex, women of the redpill are not willing to give sex before a commitment. Where does this leave us? It seems like we are all just stuck chasing our own tails. How do we reconcile this point?
We_Are_Legion 10y ago
I suppose the chances of a RP couple forming this way are very rare so its a moot point. Most RP couples, myself included, turned our relationship into that after one or the other party made a push for it, and both partners agreed.
But if a paradox is what you're looking to reconcile, I suppose the answer is;
a man's play is successful = they have sex.
a woman's play is successful = they have a relationship.
Neither is about withholding sex or relationship, but making sure they get what they're looking for out of it. The preferred option for a man for any other woman is a quick fuck. For a high-quality woman, he would want a relationship. Vice versa for women.
The burden of this exchange falls on you then. You have to demonstrate value to him. You have to... make him infatuated with you.
There is no hard and fast rule about sex too early = slut. Just keep his interest without the sex for about 3-4 dates, and then go nuts on him.
Use sex to your advantage. And remember, a man's ego is his downfall. In love and war. And especially love. His ego is important to his satisfaction in sex and relationships. I'm not saying smother him, I'm saying show enthusiasm. Pure, innocent, joyous enthusiasm combined with a feminine touch and manner is enough to enamour a man, provided the woman is desirable.
And voila, he wants to keep you.
CasaKulta 10y ago
Nothing is that cut and dry. Any 'plate' I get is basically a relationship with a nope button attached. If one of them gives me everything I want, I'm going to gravitate to that, I just want to be treated well not be with more people. That's when you become adults, stop overgeneralising and talk about whether you would want to be fully committed or whether you're still interested in seeing other people.
The point is reconciled with just talking to be honest. If I want an actual relationship I will seek a relationship, which means you should probably be looking out for people seeking relationships and not just the majority who aren't. Otherwise you would just be pining and annoying; make your intentions clear and become better at communicating.
But I don't really get the commitment before sex thing anyway. I don't understand its pedestal so this argument is probably moot. I think it should be a naturally progression from talking to kissing to fucking as long as you're aware of sexual habits and use protection. The rest of the relationships are about time and what you get out of it. I'm not going to get in a relationship or be committed until we prove to each other that we are worth such a commitment. If both of us could and in most cases did explore other avenues yet still decide that the relationship would work out better, I'm happy to commit. We should stop living in lahdeedah sex land and accept it as non taboo when exercised correctly, why would I ever commit to a girl who holds sex on such a pedestal? I obviously wont be getting it that often.
Edit a word and sentence.
needathrowawayplease 10y ago
There are many, many men who read this sub that don't go 100% RP or just take inspiration from the ideas presented. I'd wager a fair portion for men here will trade implied commitment for sex, but then apply RP to setting boundaries, being non-needy, being a leader, etc.
But in my opinion the RPW idea of not putting out until you have commitment means you are going to lose a lot of RP men. I can understand not putting out on the first date, but by date 3 or 4 if you haven't most men (RP or BP) would move on, unless they truly have no other options.
ubiety 10y ago
IF you're girlfriend material, then whoever man you pursue will surely see you as a catch and you can lock him down that way; however, if you take advantage of a good situation and act undesirably you'll quickly lose that guy.
Go out on a few dates and do your shit tests. If he fails, find a guy who can pass them and you're on your way to a successful relationship. If you give in too easily to his sexual desires, you'll be seen as a slut; however, if you wait too long you'll be playing hard to get.
I assure you, there's a sweet spot in all healthy LTRs when both parties get what they want because they want to give to each other selflessly. If you've been in a relationship before where almost everything clicks, you'll know what I mean.
[deleted] 10y ago
Men who are looking for a LTR are going to act differently than men who are looking for casual sex. Most guys that seek advice here are currently looking for casual sex and not a girlfriend. That doesn't mean every guy out there is.
RP means figuring out what you want for you, and that means different things for different people. It doesn't mean we all fit with each other. Most RP guys here wouldn't bother with me because I won't give sex outside a relationship. Likewise, I wouldn't bother with most guys here because they aren't looking for a relationship and lead an incompatible lifestyle.
Guys aren't going to act the same way all their lives. What sparkleselite meant was that when a solidified man wants to settle down, he will look for another kind of girl, not a plate. This is the guy you want as a RPW, not a casual sex guy.
aaron_the_just 10y ago
I think you're 100% dead wrong
Men look for LTRs their whole lives, they're willing to also have flings and STRs until they find that girl who's worth it to them.
I also question "I won't give sex outside a relationship". Have you EVER had a sex outside of a relationship? If so, any man who entertains a relationship with you and waits for sex is a fool: he pays a high price for what another man was given for free.
[deleted] 10y ago
Look, I noticed you've been disagreeing with me in a lot of things I've wrote.
I will tell you that I am not American and dating is a little different here. I haven't had sex with a man outside a relationship- so only two guys for me- but here we don't do the "date a lot of people simultaneously until finding one that stands out". Usually, you and the girl would date monogamously until it becomes more or it becomes less. The becoming more includes sex.
That's why if the guy is "not looking" for me (as in: is more interested in casual stuff) I wouldn't bother. I wouldn't stick around thinking "oh, men want LTR their whole lives, they are willing to have a fling with me until they realize I'm special and upgrade me" because it seems naive to me.
LukeMooney 10y ago
not it wouldn't. art and orchestra is for faggots.
walkingthelinux 10y ago
Yeah those faggot artists hiding their faggotry by fucking scores of hot art-loving women.
You should go back and read through your history. Do you think you will still interact that way when you are an adult?
sparkleselite 10y ago
How so? Women love a man who has skills in the arts and isn't just focused on his career. There needs to be a balance between work and fun. OP is looking for an LTR so the fun needs to be mature fun and not just partying and hooking up.
LukeMooney 10y ago
Don't care what women think they love. They all want masculinity, and while there may be a few alphas at the museum, most will be betas, therefore a bad place to start.
sparkleselite 10y ago
Fuck that's right... 99% will be betas...
walkingthelinux 10y ago
This makes it a GREAT place to pick up chicks though.
art>young liberal women>mostly surrounded by beta men>completely weak competition = fuck fest.
You want to be surrounded by young, hot, "sex positive" girls? Act like you care about liberal causes.
You'll be surrounding by dysfunctional pussy with no morals. Not LTR material, but that's not what we are discussing here.
aaron_the_just 10y ago
You, sir, just betrayed my strategy in 2012, when I befriended as many Obama and Democratic U.S. Senate campaign staffers and volunteers as possible.
2013 was a good year...
[deleted] 10y ago
/u/whimsicalweasel Red Pill Men don't have to be womanizers or have side girls. Some prefer monogamous relationships/LTR's because they just are better for them. Also, don't get the idea that women are low value to red pill men. The primary difference isn't that red pill men devalue women, it's that red pill men value themselves too.
whimsicalweasel 10y ago
And I want a man who values himself. My last LTR's failed because he let me walk all over him. I don't want to be able to do this. It sucks.
[deleted] 10y ago
All of that said, my last relationship was one where she needed me to be able to tell her no, and I did. Now, every guy she dates has the beta tendancies you're talking about. It can be rough.
I'd recommend communicating up front that you want to empower him to make decisions and feel he is ok to stand up to you. That's if you're really mentally invested in one person. Of course, this runs a risk that the only reason he will tell you no/exhibit alpha tendencies is because you allowed him to lead. But I can say, as a man that was not very red pill at first, I can value that. I hope this helps!
[deleted] 10y ago
This makes me wonder how many of us actually bang multiple girls on rotation. It's probably not as many as you think. I didn't do it before I got married.
aaron_the_just 10y ago
I didn't start doing it in earnest until after I was married and divorced...
alreadyredschool 10y ago
Normally: Alpha guy gets GF, trains her to be a good women.
You: Find a good guy.
SirNemesis 10y ago
From the RPW sidebar: http://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/1rpnx3/toward_a_reconciliation_of_male_and_female_nature/
whatever6 10y ago
Plenty of RP guys are married or in LTRs. TRP promotes spinning plates because that is the best choice for guys. It keeps the power in their hands and prevents them from getting fucked over by marriage laws. Most guys will still go for LTRs however. RP gives them the knowledge to understand the dynamic and not get trapped in a LTR by a woman undeserving of it.
For a RP man looking for a LTR, a RPW woman is exactly what he is looking for. Mine sure as hell is.
kick6 10y ago
Despite what the TRP subs on reddit might have you believe: the real red pill is about more than just notch count. The real red pill is about male self improvement for whatever that particular man wants. Some red pill men actually want children. A red pill man knows that the proper environment in which to raise children is in a two-parent household so he will choose monogamy, but will vet the over loving shit out of any woman he thinks might make a good mother because a red pill man also knows that your average western woman is a piss-poor marriage partner.
So they're out there, they're aren't easy to find (as are marriage-quality women), and if you want to lock one down without sex you're going to have to be highly demonstrative of your wife skills...and maybe give a lot of blowjobs.
Cyralea 10y ago
You've got it exactly right. The idea is to avoid RP men who aren't looking for commitment. That's why you withhold sex for a short period while you suss them out. If you're a plate looking to become wife-potential, I've got bad news for you. It's no different than a nice guy trying to nice his way in a girl's panties.
Some plate-spinning men eventually give that up to pursue an LTR. This was the case for me. Use some diligence to figure out who actually wants a life of monogamy and who is actually looking for another easy lay.
Zaorish9 10y ago
You are right that there is some contradiction. It is not easy. It will have to be a dance.
For many years I went around flatly telling women that I wanted an LTR, a quiet life, and to settle down. I got so many humiliating friend-zones and "you're a loser" rejections that I had no choice but to come here and practice playing the "hard to get" / "Bad boy" man role. Do I want to? No. Do I wish I could just go up to a potential match, say, "Hey, let's cut the bullshit and focus on an LTR", and be taken seriously? Yes. Is that ever gonna happen? No, because the average woman today is looking for the bad boy, and we must act based on generalizations when aproaching strangers for maximuym effectivenes.
It is the result of game theory that men's and women's interests must be opposed.
raceAround126 10y ago
I kinda go the opposite way around I guess. I usually think of a girl as top end until her behavior demonstrates otherwise. A girl can demote herself quite quickly for various things. But I guess it depends what way around you want to look for things.
asd1100 10y ago
You should not upgrade a plate. There are different qualities that make a women a great plate vs what make them a great partner.
Hotness does not make you intrinsically valuable, just fuckable.
She is of low value because she does add much to the mans live. Or anything she does add (sexual release) is easy to get from someone else.
You find a rational emotionally balanced girl to settle down with and show her how natural and fulfiling those all so evil gender roles can actually be.
logi_thebear 10y ago
I consider myself I guy who follows trp, and I read the comment stream, so I now you're a girl looking for a guy.
The way it works for me and my girlfriend is that I believe its morally right to wait for marriage to have sex. Now, that being said, I don't practice like I should (in the same manner that I swear and whatnot), but it's the idea of it that has the effect. I never really went around whoring myself out, and when I do sleep with a girl, I have the intention of pursuing a serious relationship. Not to mention, I also think it's pretty foolish to mess around with someone you don't like enough to even date.
So what I'd say is find yourself a manly church goin' fella.
whimsicalweasel 10y ago
As an atheist, I don't think I will be going to church any time soon.
steveob42 10y ago
If that works for you then fine, but generally it takes some practice to have sexual value, hence sexual market value. If you aren't trying to rock that chicks world, then your value moves over to protector/provider, and she has incentive to be "rocked" elsewhere. I don't think complete sexual repression is a good formula, sorta the opposite extreme of whoring. From zero experience to completely diluted experience.
logi_thebear 10y ago
Hence the part about my ideals being different than my practice.
steveob42 10y ago
But what is this business about being "morally right to wait for marriage"? There is nothing RP about that. Either the waiting part OR the marriage part (or the moral part).
logi_thebear 10y ago
That's completely subjective, but it has to do with religious beliefs.
steveob42 10y ago
It just seems a bit ironic, if redpill=reality, you say find a man who believes in santa clause.
logi_thebear 10y ago
Then let me ask you, what do you think will happen once you die?
There are two options, you will either entirely cease to exist, or something else will happen. In either case, both are completely beyond the ability of your mind to properly comprehend. I don't think there's anything wrong with having beliefs.
steveob42 10y ago
Nothingness is actually easy to comprehend, it is the null hypothesis. There is nothing to experiment with, so what basis is there for believing something (which could very easily turn out to be worse than nothing and completely out of your control for all we know).
I'm not saying don't be optimistic about your life, there is genuine benefit there, but beyond that it is pointless. You are essentially dividing by zero.
11411181 10y ago
Yo, it's ok to not pull on your atheist hat every time someone disagrees with your worldview. Really.
steveob42 10y ago
I'm not the one saying "pick a church guy if you want RP LTR", or "wait till marriage"...