umm....for a man with options--wasting time, money and effort on "committing" to one woman in some tabglible way without getting the expected return (sex, wifely behavior, fidelity in return, etc)

There is an interesting dynamic going on here before and after commitment:

TL;DR Summary: Before commitment happens, both the guy and the gal have a decent amount of power in the relationship, though whoever wants commitment is at a slight disadvantage.

After commitment, the guy is at a large disadvantage because he has no exit and is at the mercy of the gal for sex

Disclaimer: The ramblings that follow are based on my (limited) understanding of power dynamics in relationships. If both parties have a deep respect and love for each other, are very generous to each other, are willing to sacrifice for the relationship, etc., then much of this analysis may be irrelevant. The reason is that generous cooperation really messes with power dynamics and makes them less important (imo).

Also, the below are my opinions of course. I am not trying to present facts—just opinion. I may be very wrong in my judgments. Honestly speaking, I am very biased.

Before commitment, the romantic male-female dynamic has to do with sex and determining fitness for commitment. (Actually, the healthiest goal is to just have fun while together and do one's own thing while apart.)

As a guy, if you're in decent shape and know what's up, you can get sex a few times per month (or more) from different women. As a woman, you can get more sex than that. In other words, both men and women can find some modicum of sexual satiety without too much difficulty if they know how.

The penalty for a failed sexual relationship is fairly small. To be clear, by sexual relationship, I mean a relationship where there is not much commitment—the same two people have sex maybe only once ever, or even once every week or every few weeks, in which case it's casual, relaxed friendship.

If things don't work out, you shrug, feel sad for a bit, then keep looking (or perhaps you have multiple partners). At worst, you've lost sex for a bit, as well as the possibility of commitment from that individual.

Then there's commitment. Commitment refers to an exclusive relationship as well as marriage. Both situations are not terribly easy to leave—the former because of emotional attachment and comfort—the latter for all the same reasons as the former, plus financial reasons, and, most importantly, children.

After commitment happens, there is the potential for sex to be used as a weapon, usually by women. IMO, there are several reasons why I believe this:

• For men, sex is generally a stronger compulsion—probably because we haven't been as sexually repressed as women by society. Generally speaking, I think women can live without sex better than men. Furthermore, women get more sexual validation throughout the day. When you have people checking you out or hitting on you several times a day, it makes a difference in your life. You may not think so, but compare this to men who are generally not appreciated sexually. Any validation men receive from foreigners usually comes after the guy puts effort into flirting and doesn't get rejected—which is not an option for a guy in a relationship. Thus, his only validation as a sexual being generally only comes from his girlfriend or wife. That's it.
• Women have an easier time cheating because 1) they can find partners more easily, and 2) because society is slightly more forgiving of women cheating. I know that's controversial. I'll explain this viewpoint after I discuss some of the reasons why men and women cheat.

To be clear, I'm not saying society views cheating by women as a-OK—hardly anybody supports cheating. Rather, I'm saying that women are viewed by society as have more understandable reasons for cheating, and thus can be forgiven more easily by their peers. This is usually by laying blame on the guy, which is generally half-true. In reality, the blame lies with both parties, unless the cheater is a raging nymphomaniac with no self-control.

The reasons for cheating that a woman has include:

• The guy is a total deadbeat.
• He spends too much time doing his own thing (friends, video games, etc.)
• He comes home and is emotionally distant because he's tired from work or whatever.
• He's generally neglectful in small but significant ways. It's generally not intentional or malicious, but it's still neglect.
• He is sexually not performing or is unexciting to you.

These are valid issues by the way, and they occur in many relationships that work and don't work.

Anyhow, the above reasons for cheating are implicitly known throughout society (imo), which means that when a woman cheats, it's easier for us to forgive her. Again, I'll explain this more in-depth in a little bit.

Guys have the same set of reasons for cheating, however society does not view them as valid excuses because society still views these reasons as being mostly the guy's fault. Again, this is only half-true. In reality, both parties ought to work together to solve any problems.

• Girl is a deadbeat: You should engage more. Talk to her about things she likes, go dancing with her, cook with her, hike with her, encourage her to push herself, etc.
• She spends too much time doing her own thing: Girls need time by themselves. And besides, consider yourself lucky that she gives you some space, right? Plan "Guy Time", or make an effort to involve yourself in what she enjoys.
• She comes home and remains distant due to being tired from work or whatever: Give her massages, cook for her, do extra-nice things for her, pamper her, draw her a bath, just be with her and don't put on any pressure because, hey, she's tired.
• She's generally neglectful: What are you doing to piss her off? Maybe you said something wrong. Buy her roses, take her out on nice dates like you used to, etc. Try to communicates your feeling more. Maybe she feels you're neglecting her.
• She is not performing sexually: Welcome to married life. But seriously, try to communicate your feelings. Maybe counseling. You should also hit the gym to stay attractive. And might try viagra...

Many of the issues are viewed as the guy's fault. "You're in the doghouse now," is what happens when the man misbehaves and so has to sleep on the couch. It is uncommon for a guy to put his gal "in the doghouse."

In short, if a guy cheats on his SO, he's a total and utter douche-bag. If there are kids involved, then fuck that guy even more because she bore his children.

If a girl cheats, well what a freaking bitch, but was her SO treating her okay? I mean, you know how so many guys just don't pay any attention to their wives/girlfriends and are a total bore after awhile. And so many guys just eat and eat and watch TV and let themselves go! And he probably didn't help with the cooking, the kids, the cleaning, and who knows what else. Living with that man must've really been suffocating if she had to go out and cheat to feel some freedom and excitement. But, you know, it's good that she decided to divorce that man in the end. The cheating really was the first sign that she needed to get out of that relationship...

(To be clear, I am assuming the reasons a person has for cheating are 100% true—the SO might be negligent, unhelpful, uncommunicative, etc.. I am not saying that either party is fabricating any complaints. However, we can all agree that cheating is off the table—at least until significant effort has been made to rectify things at home.)

It is the above sentiments that make me feel cheating is easier for women—in part, because it's easier to find people to sleep with, in part because women can live without sex more easily, and in part because I believe society's standards make it easier for women to rationalize cheating to themselves and others and thus be forgiven.

As another example, think of the woman who finds her husband cheating. It is more acceptable that she retaliates by destroying his property than if the roles were reversed. She still goes to jail and she's still crazy, but there is a strong "He deserves it" mentality in society.

As a supporting anecdote: I saw a clip of a talk show where the women hosts were talking about a woman who cut off her guy's penis and put it in the blender. As I recall, the hosts' reactions included: "He probably cheated on her", laughter, and "You go girl".

Now, reverse the roles—the man finds his gal cheating, cuts off her clit and labia and puts them in a blender. If a guy so much as smirks, his career would be over, and rightly so. And anyway, no one would smirk because genital mutilation is just not funny.

Anyway, if cheating is easier for women, you now have a situation where the guy feels that he has to behave properly in the committed relationship if he wants sex. (His feelings may be paranoia, but feelings are still real.) If the guy misbehaves, he loses sex and may face divorce (and, depending on the situation, may lose a portion of his finances and family). If he cheats on his wife, he also faces divorce.

In other words, if it the commitment situation doesn't work, the guy often times gets screwed and is no shrug and walk away. Thus, the guy is at a great power disadvantage after committing.

Contrast the above with the pre-commitment situation, where both parties have more control over the situation. Whoever wants commitment is at a slight power disadvantage because ze has to get the other person to agree to commitment. Generally, it's the girl who is in this slightly disadvantaged position, though guys certainly experience this as well.

Hmmm, are these views that are held by genders (let's generalize that these unique gender preferences are prevelant) products of the nature of each gender, or things that are taught by societies?

What portion of this is a product of environment/culture and what portion is caused by genetics/the nature of each gender/ seems to be where people disagree.

I think that environment and culture play larger roles in causing behavior among genders. In my experience the differing views of people are shaped by their differing experiences (experiences that; teach them how to interact with the world). These styles of thinking propagate and evolve as society does.

I've met too many unique men and women to assume that all behave according to certain roles or that they should; however, I do recognize that in a broad sample many do.

Im over at TRP pretty often and I think the general consensus is that marriage is not worth the risk. I think you hit the nail on the head here. In this day and age of having your cake and eating too, most women are too flakey and as soon as they get a wild hair up their ass they divorce you, take the kids, get child support, alimony and leave you with nothing. With women intiating divorce a vast majority of the time its a really big risk. So like you said its about safety.

But if things weren't so bad, I might reconsider marriage again. But right now its not an option for me.

The consensus in TRP is get a vasectomy so she doesn't try to get pregnant to trap u by lying about taking birth control "OOPS!" is bullshit, cohabit, but don't marry.

Women are far too incentivised by the divorce system to basically ditch you and leave you with nothing. She'll defend that position while she loves you, but love is oft temporary with the feminine ruled by their emotion, if a better guy comes along you're fucked, win-win for her, lose-lose for you. She gets an upgrade (branch swings) and you have to pay out the ass for her. Whilst your life goes into serial downgrade and the money you've given her now makes it harder for you to get another woman and move on. It's clean for her, dirty for you.

I want a family, I'm not going to have a formalised legal contract that allows me to be divorce raped though. Might have a ceremony, but you won't catch me signing marriage papers. That's strategically stupid for a man, the feminists made it so.

The debate over commitment could not have occurred up until the point where sex was readily available without commitment (squandering sex).

There's plenty of red pillers who are in long term relationships or even married. Red pill just advises against it because divorce dzvirs females and a woman can use divorce as leverage.

This is because, while the government can legislate relationships into a bad deal for men, it cannot legislate sex into a bad deal for women.

Laws can abolish any rights a man may have in marriage, but they cannot abolish love, affection, pleasure, connection, or the female orgasm.

also, because in modern society sex has been divorced from its natural consequences, while commitment has had a ton of artificial consequences heaped on it.

If I get married and want out, I cant pay a doctor $400 to hack you into pieces and toss you out with the medical waste. I have to pay a divorce lawyer, and then probably keep paying alimony indefinitely. Theres no pill to protect me from becoming homeless if you decide we should no longer cohabitate. I can't demand you wrap yourself in a greasy balloon to protect myself from the potential consequences of significant commitment.

Yeah, my husband doesn't really like TRP for that reason, our family and marriage was definitely a top priority/desire in his life. He says it's not really anything he can relate to for that reason.