The Red Pill is the best explanation of the forces that drive the sexual marketplace, with competition being the most powerful of those forces. Competition is inherently a masculine force, whereas anti-competition is inherently a feminine force. This is true for one simple reason: when it comes to human reproduction, men have an abundant amount of sperm and women have a small amount of eggs. The abundance of sperm makes a man nearly biologically worthless, while the comparative rareness of eggs makes a woman valuable. Men must demonstrate that their sperm is superior in order to gain access to those rare eggs, and thus we must compete with each other in the sexual marketplace if our genes are to survive. The best way to do this is by continuously raising our SMV.
Competition promotes growth, lower prices, profit, efficient allocation of resources, and raises the quality of life of everybody as equally as possible in the long run. Red Pill knowledge aids men in competing much more efficiently by helping them raise their SMV (growth), which gives them access to more (lower prices) high quality (profit) women. The alphas get pussy and pass on their genes while the betas provide and get dead-bedroomed/cucked (efficient allocation of resources), and it removes a lot of the genetically inferior betas from the gene pool (raises the quality of life for the most amount of people in the long run). Competition is the name of the game.
Contrast this with its feminine counterpart, anti-competition. Higher prices, monopolies, and zero profit motive - which promote stagnated growth, forced wealth redistribution, and a worsening of the average quality of life. Socialism always fails because it destroys the pricing structure that is the backbone of how market forces efficiently communicate information to properly allocate resources, and replaces it with a central planning state apparatus that reallocates resources to the perceived benefit of those controlling the state. That apparatus is the only way that monopolies have ever been created and maintained throughout history. This makes sense because the state itself is a monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force, thus it follows that the only laws it can pass are inherently monopolistic and anti-competitive.
From youth, women receive male attention and validation for doing nothing other than existing. They never have to learn how to compete for access to men the way men have to learn to compete for access to women. Since men effectively have an infinite amount of sperm, there is no biological need for a woman to compete for Chad’s genetics. He is more than capable of sharing his sperm with many women simultaneously, and in fact they prefer sharing Chad’s sperm to having a monopoly on a beta’s sperm. The real problem for a woman is that other women represent a threat to her ability to monopolize a man’s provisionary aspects (validation, attention, committment, and/or resources), and her own SMV is the largest factor that affects that ability.
A woman's SMV relies almost entirely on her looks, which are largely dependent on her genetics and how old she is. Beyond taking care of her appearance, her control over her looks is extremely limited compared to men. So even if she did learn how to compete the way men do, it would be futile because it would not improve her SMV. Since it is impossible for her to outcompete other women who are genetically prettier than her, her only alternative is to destroy her competition.
To do this, women ultimately seek to establish a monopoly on (LTR/marry) their unicorn genetically superior provider (Alpha Bucks). Many of them fail at ever accomplishing this. The older or uglier a woman who hasn't succeded, the more she will have to rely on attempting to destroy her competition. That is why older women slut-shame so much and shame older man/younger woman couples. If she can’t monopolize Chad’s provision, she will instead have to monopolize a beta’s provision, possibly pop out some of his kids, and eventually attempt to reduce the risk of further passing on his genetics by dead-bedrooming him and/or cucking him with Chad’s baby. In a nutshell, AF/BB.
Like any free market, in the sexual marketplace there are competing currencies whose values are determined by the consumers that engage in voluntary trade to create a stable pricing structure. Women trade their currency (sex) for men's currency (provisionary aspects like validation, attention, commitment, and/or resources). The higher a person's SMV, the more purchasing power their currency has. For example, a high SMV man can "purchase" a high SMV woman's sex in exchange for very little to no provision, wheras a low SMV man's currency is not valuable enough to purchase a high SMV woman's sex. Sex costs alphas less than it does betas.
The more currency that is in circulation, the less valuable a person's currency becomes. The more a woman gives out sex to different men, the less she can buy with it after each transaction. Every time a woman's n count goes up, that decreases the chances of her being able to "buy" provision from a higher SMV man. Why would he want to waste his time providing her with those things when he would much prefer to provide them to a higher SMV woman with lower n count? Conversely, the more a man gives out his currency, the less valuable it becomes and the less sex he can "buy" with it. A man who spends his currency too often - a beta orbiter, a guy that commits too easily, or a guy who spends too much literal money on a woman - is the male version of a slut, and that sexually repulses women.
If every woman was a huge slut, women's currency would become practically worthless relative to men's currency. The price of sex would nosedive for all men because any man could get sex with very little effort, and there would be no incentive for them to provide anything to women. In early human history, that would have been devastating for women and their children, so they evolved over millions of years to be more selective about the quality and quantity of their sexual partners. Instead of humans being purely polygamous or purely monogamous, we evolved the drive to pursue both polygamy and serial monogomy as a dualistic mating strategy. The market forces of evolution and natural selection have perfectly balanced the values of the male and female currencies relative to each other, so the pricing structure is stable and efficient. It is only when the state manipulates that pricing structure that the values of the currencies become artificially distorted relative to one another.
In the U.S., the state has a monopoly on the currency. You are required by law to use the Federal Reserve Note as legal tender for payments of all debts, regardless of how badly the state destroys its value through inflation. Competing currencies have no legal enforcement. Can you imagine if such backwards logic were applied to the sexual marketplace, where competing currencies were abolished and sex was somehow established as the monopoly currency? Men would not be able to increase provision as a positive reward and withdraw it as a negative punishment; we would either have to be completely submissive to the feminine imperative, or drop out of the sexual marketplace altogether (MGTOW).
Fortunately, the state only has the power to distort the values of the currencies in the SMP, not abolish them. The major way it does this is by implementing laws that reduce the reliance of women on men’s provision such as welfare, alimony, and child support laws that disproportionately harm men relative to women. The state cannot establish sex as the monopoly currency because women are biologically programmed to desire provision from men. But if it could, it would be a true nightmare. One can only use this analogy to speculate the insane amount of damage that legal tender laws have done to the U.S. economy.
Being feminine in nature, the Blue Pill is inherently anti-competitive. A man who does not compete in the sexual marketplace was either sold the blue pill lie that he does not need to ("She said she will always remain loyal until death us do part!") or has become jaded and turned MGTOW. Marriage is the way that women use government force to maintain a monopoly on their provider. He is far less likely to cheat or leave her if he is married to her because she can divorce-rape him. The incentive for him to continue searching for high quality women has been greatly hampered, so his profit motive has been destroyed. Thus, the blue pill man's SMV stagnates like any sector of the economy does when profit motive is eliminated.
Of course, the loyal blue pill man likes to believe that marriage is a two-way street - that it is also his monopoly on his oneitis, but we know that is not true because AWALT. She will dead-bedroom, cheat, and/or divorce-rape him if the right Chad comes along at the right time, or maybe just because she is bored. From a biological standpoint, the pros of her doing this far outweigh the cons. In fact, her hypergamy ruthlessly demands it. Hubby's monopoly on her vagina is only an illusion; a fiction that exists purely in his mind. Despite this, Blue Pill men have a defense mechanism that will cause them to do whatever they can to preserve this illusion through mate guarding, oneitis, marriage, etc., all of which are attempts to appropriate the female approach of anti-competition. A man acting like a woman is a beta sexual strategy and more than likely will backfire on him sooner or later. Betas get what betas deserve.
Even if a couple wanted to draw up their own custom competing marriage contract, it is illegal to do so. The state has a monopoly on the definition of marriage - a definition that almost guarantees that in the event of a split, the man will get taken to the cleaners in family and divorce courts. Perhaps the couple wants a contract that would ensure a clean split with no possibility of divorce-rape. Perhaps the man wants a contract that says he can divorce-rape his wife if she doesn’t have sex with him whenever he wants. The point is that it should be up to the parties involved in the contract, not the state or some other third party, to decide what the terms of that contract ought to be.
The state excludes anybody who does not want its one-size-fits-all cookie cutter definition of marriage. Anybody who does not agree to its terms is almost certain to be punished with higher taxes. Until recently, this negatively affected LGBTQ people, but continues to affect polygamists, MGTOW, and even heterosexual couples that want to draw up their own competing contracts. Under the current system, not even a prenup is guaranteed to prevent divorce-rape because a white knight judge can decide he doesn't like the husband's face, then declare that hubby didn't accurately list all of his assets at the time the prenup was drawn up, and throw the prenup out the window. The cons of men getting married far outweigh the pros thanks to big daddy government and its monopoly on the marriage contract.
We can see very clearly how the state has massively devalued men’s currency relative to women’s, and how the anti-competitive nature of the Blue Pill has lowered the quality of life for the most amount of people. The negative impacts of blue pill thinking on the quality of life of men are obvious, but what about for women? Despite the advantages that blue pill third-wave feminist society gives women over men, it turns out that growing up without a red pill father, failing to secure commitment from an Alpha Bucks, riding the CC, getting alpha widowed by Chad(s), getting a college degree, having a career as a strong independent womyn, hitting the wall, marrying a beta, pumping out a few kids, divorce raping him, suddenly finding she's unable to attract the same Chads she did in her youth, and turning into a crazy old cat lady wondering "where have all the good men gone?" does not make women happy. More women than ever are on anti-depressants and struggling with mental health issues. The irony of third-wave feminism is that it is more harmful to women than helpful. The feminine imperative, when not kept in check by the masculine imperative, is destructive to societies. Makes sense when you consider that the average woman emphasizes feeeeeelz over logic, which is an inherently self-destructive and almost suicidal pattern of thinking.
The 80/20 rule says that roughly 80% of men are betas and 20% of men are alphas. Since women make up about 51% of the population, that means that alpha males comprise less than 10% of the adult population. When you combine the force of government/democracy with the feminine imperative and Blue-Pill thinking (all of which are anti-competitive by nature), the obvious conclusion is that there can never be any democratic government that is not hostile towards the alpha male. 91% of the voting population is voting against his individual sovereignty. His Liberty must take a backseat and his property must be redistributed for the supposed "greater good", which is obviously nothing more than false collectivist propaganda. Since the 91% are the ones controlling the state, they control how the resources will be redistributed: for what they believe is their own benefit, of course. And what they believe is their own benefit is not always what is actually for the greater good, but, as we’ve seen, is in fact destructive to both individuals and society.
In a free market system, Billy Beta, and only Billy Beta, would be a woman's provider. But 91% of the voting population has decided that society should be taking on the role of being providers by proxy through welfare, subsidized higher education, socialized healthcare in many countries, and various other government programs that benefit women. This is not to mention the "single tax" levied on Chad for being unmarried. Thus, instead of resources being efficently allocated, Chad's resources get forcibly redistributed to women that he isn't fucking and would never otherwise provide for. He could have used that money to keep improving his SMV and pass on his genes more efficiently. Instead, Billy now doesn’t have to provide as much and has more money, Chad has less money, and it has forcibly decreased the gap between Chad's SMV and Billy's SMV. All else equal, the prices of valuable women have gone up for Chad and gone down for Billy. This is just one more way that the state has distorted the pricing structure in the SMP. Chad hasn't just been cucked, he's been gang raped. And gang rape is exactly what democracy is. Two people vote yes, one votes no, and majority rules.
The fact is that we do not need a welfare system because in the absence of a welfare state, private charity is far more efficient at helping the poor than government programs are. According to the late Dr. Milton Friedman, 19th century America, which had zero welfare safety nets, saw the largest outpouring of charitable activity in recorded history and also saw the most rapid improvement in the poor's standard of living out of anywhere before or since. In fact, our “all or nothing” welfare system incentivizes the poor to not try to increase their income too much because once they they hit the hard cutoff point, they will lose their benefits and actually be worse off if they don’t increase their income enough to make up for the difference. Coupled with our failure of a public education system, they keep the poor trapped in an endless cycle of generational poverty. All of the evidence suggests that the poor would be better off if the wealth redistribution apparatus of the state did not exist because it is always used to redistribute wealth from the poor to the rich far more than it is used to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor. And it is used to redistribute provision from men to women. And redistribute sex from alphas to betas.
The very existence of government requires initiating force against individuals to exploit their labor like they are slaves, i.e. taxes and/or implementing legal tender laws so it can steal your purchasing power through inflation/debt. If you do not pay your taxes, the government will ultimately resort to sending armed thugs to kidnap you at gunpoint and throw you in a locked cage for tax evasion. At the individual level, initiating physical force against another adult is tantamount to breaking frame. A man with strong frame does not initiate physical force against other adults; he only responds with physical force in matters of self-defense, and only when absolutely necessary. This logic does not change simply by transferring it from the individual level to the societal level: utilizing government to physically force your will on society is equivalent to breaking frame.
By electing statist politicians, the 91% are simply instructing people (Congress/police/military) to initiate force against others (YOU) on their behalf. Essentially, the democratic majority has weak frame because it has to use force to get its way when people do not voluntarily cooperate with its will, just like a beta who beats his wife for cheating. If the anti-competitive nature of third-wave feminism was such a good idea, it would not need to rely on force to be implemented. People would simply voluntarily accept it based on its own merits. But the fact is that it does need government force to be implemented, otherwise it would vanish because its arguments are false. Government intervention in the market has destroyed the rate of economic growth in the U.S., is destroying the middle class, unfairly transfers wealth, destroyed the costs of healthcare and education, destroyed our money's purchasing power, and has destroyed our Liberty. The Red Pill man simply cannot reach his full potential in a statist society because statism itself is inherently incompatible with a Red Pill way of life.
Fortunately, free market forces always have a way of bleeding through anti-competitive forces, usually through black markets and price corrections (recessions). Monopolies are inherently inefficient and will fail even when bailed out by government, which is why a woman's monopoly over a man through the government institution of marriage is collapsing. Blue pill society has massively damaged the economy, and specifically the dating market by keeping many men's SMV lower than it would be if they had not been sold blue pill lies. It is causing both men and women to be increasingly unhappy and seek answers. Just like how free market economics are considered offensive by most of society, the Red Pill's taboo nature makes it a sort of black market of information about the SMP that was bound to come into being and take root sooner or later. Market forces demanded it as a correction. It offers a man the information he needs to correct himself and thus help correct the prices in the dating market so that higher value women become cheaper to obtain by raising his own value. The Red Pill ultimately prevails because it is the truth and it works.
indeydius 6y ago
> Competition is inherently a masculine force, whereas anti-competition is inherently a feminine force.
Not true. Women are very competitive. Walk into a room with three women each of whom thinks you're with seeing one of the others behind her back and you'll see.
[deleted] 6y ago
[deleted]
thefisherman1961 6y ago
He never said any such thing. Your reading comprehension is either awful or you're trolling. Next time consider putting more thought and effort into your future posts so as to provide value to the RP community.
They wouldn't have any political power if the democratic majority didn't keep electing politicians who sell out to those special interests. Blame the voters. Next time consider putting more thought and effort into your future posts so as to provide value to the RP community.
His point was extremely obvious. In fact, he even bolded it for you but apparently it still went over your head. Next time consider putting more thought and effort into your future posts so as to provide value to the RP community.
I interpreted that last paragraph as being a bit of optimism to offset his obviously dismal, pessimistic conclusion that we must dismantle the state in order to be able to fully realize ourselves as individual RP men. As in, that's never going to happen. Also, not sure why you think the truth is inherently "good". Your BP programming obviously still runs deep if you believe that Disney fairy tale nonsense. Next time consider putting more thought and effort into your future posts so as to provide value to the RP community.
conflagratorX 6y ago
Marriage 1.0 and traditional values were not blue pill concepts to limit competition among men. They were introduced by patriarchy to limit the situation when both parties men and women acting only in self interest - looses in the longterm. Aka prisoner dilemma if you want to speak in game theory language.
mleko69 6y ago
Since I discovered the TRP I knew that it's extremely compatible with anarcho-capitalism, and this post sorted everything so damn well. In statism everyone below government is beta and cannot truly enjoy and control their life.
Do you want to build a house? Sorry, you need a government permit for that.
Are you interested in buying a car? Sike, you have to acquire driving license first.
Have an idea for business? Sure, you can start it, but first file for permit and few licenses.
Because of your alpha physique and mentality people treat you like a natural authority and leader, and so you've become an arbitrator who helps people deal with their problems? Oh boy, you're so fucked...
This post is like a missing piece of puzzle. In general TRP seems to teach us how to adapt to new social conditions, how to live life during the time of the dawn of western civilization. But there aren't many posts that discuss what would life be after the West is over. Ancap ideas should be adapted to TRP thought, or maybe the other way round - we should implement TRP knowledge into free market anarchist theories.
Awesome post. Thank you for it and keep it up with more stuff like this.
Librehombre 6y ago
You need to cross post this to the libertarian subreddit, maybe with a glossary of terms.
redditer0 6y ago
"Competition promotes growth, lower prices, profit, efficient allocation of resources, and raises the quality of life of everybody as equally as possible in the long run"
I'm not against competition but you seem to forget all the bad about competition: waste of resources, corruption, violence, anarchy, etc.
What raises quality of life is technology, not competition. Some competition is necessary. Full competition is anarchy, corruption and lose of efficience.
thefisherman1961 6y ago
I've never heard anyone make the argument that competition wastes resources, and causes corruption and loss of efficiency. Can you elaborate?
redditer0 6y ago
Sure. If you have multiple companies fighting for the market you will have, for example, wasted resources in advertising, and duplicated effort to create the same things, resources dedicated to lobby, etc.
I'm not saying this is always the case. Sometimes competition is good but sometimes it wastes resources. Is not always clear to me when one would be better than the other one.
Other clear example of wasting resources is, for example, patent laws and creating stuff that can't be repaired or can only be repaired by the company that creates them (Apple?), industrial sabotage (Windows and drivers vs Linux and lobby so governments use their soft which is not free and not really superior) and environment issues (for a company is cheaper to throw waste in a river than to treat them, but for the society is not efficient.. ).
thefisherman1961 6y ago
So how you define “waste” is just your subjective opinion. Obviously the companies don’t think advertising, effort dedicated to producing the same thing, and lobbying is a waste, otherwise they wouldn’t do it.
I agree that patent laws objectively cause waste. But that has nothing to do with competition but in fact are anti competition and benefit companies like Apple and Microsoft. You can thank the government and it’s inherently anti-competition nature for that.
What makes you think the government is any better with the environment than private companies are? The US govt doesn’t even recognize that global warming is real and it harms the environment far more than any other private entity. At least with private competing companies I have the choice to not buy their goods or services. With a monopoly like the government I have no choice but to fund it.
Your argument against competition makes no sense logically and is only based on feeelz. Which is why OP said that anti competition is feminine by nature.
redditer0 6y ago
Well, that's the point. If you can't define "waste" you can't define efficiency. So there's no point in saying "competition is more efficient than central planification" as a general rule because it depends on a specific metric and context. In some metrics and context it will be true and false in others.
[deleted]
Chaudhary25 6y ago
Who is the dude in the pic i have seen him before
Lib3rtarianSocialist 6y ago
Milton Friedman. An economist.
TheReformist94 6y ago
TRP is the Austrian school of economics applied to the sexual marketplace.
[deleted] 6y ago
I like it, Ayn Rand would be proud. She was a Chad par excellence, but maybe that's because she didn't buy in to the typical feminist narrative. In addition, the highest SMV males typically have children with women who are both physically attractive and intelligent/accomplished— women who did in fact work to increase their SMV. Apart from that, great post.
thefisherman1961 6y ago
Women who are intelligent/accomplished have increased their RMV, not SMV. You are confusing the two.
red_philosopher 6y ago
Women aren't anti-competitive, they strongly-compete amongst themselves for Alpha genetics and Beta support. There's a reason why it's called a marketplace. For fuck's sake women even engage in social manipulation on a wide-scale in order to make their sexual imperative more competitive than the male sexual imperative.
We're exactly where we are right now precisely because of how competitive Hypergamy is.
thefisherman1961 6y ago
Wrong. Women try to establish a monopoly on alpha provision by destroying each other because they can't improve themselves to compete like men can. Getting a monopoly on his genetics is a bonus, but not part of their biological imperative. Competing for a monopoly is rent-seeking. It's only "competition" in a paradoxical sense, which..as OP put it... makes sense when you consider that the female imperative is inherently contradictory because its based on feelz rather than logic.
red_philosopher 6y ago
Hypergamy is, expressly, the competition between females to obtain the best genetic material they can. They can, and do, improve themselves to attract higher quality men. That doesn't mean all women do, just as all men do not improve themselves. Denial of this fact doesn't make it go away.
thefisherman1961 6y ago
But they don’t compete for chads sperm the way men compete for female eggs. They can only raise their SMV so much to try to get chads sperm before they hit a ceiling and attempts to improve their SMV yield no results. They simply can’t compete with younger prettier women. It’s impossible. Unlike men who can always keep improving their SMV. Women ultimately have to rely on destroying each other (anti competition) to get to chads sperm.
red_philosopher 6y ago
You are applying the male definition of competition to the female method of competition. The two forms of competition are different and cannot be expressly reconciled with a blanket comparison. Male SMV competition is for the express purpose of being selected for reproduction by all females. Men compete, not with women, but with MEN for this benefit. Conversely, women compete amongst themselves not to select a single mate, but the BEST mates.
You also take the fallacious position that male competition is non-destructive when compared to the female competition. Men kill each other over access to female sexuality. There was a period of time where 17 women reproduced for every 1 man. Do you genuinely think that these successful men "raised their SMV" through completely benevolent means? Fuck no, they murdered their competition in cold blood and leveraged female sexuality as a method to retain power over lesser men.
thefisherman1961 6y ago
Men who kill each other over women are betas. A man employing any kind of anti competitive technique is utilizing a beta and thus feminine strategy, even if it is done through something as masculine as violence. Besides, women kill each other over men too.
Both sexes use competitive and anti competitive methods. But only betas and women use anti competitive methods. Men don’t have to rely on eliminating their competition the way women do, and women can’t rely on competing the way men do. The masculine strategy is ultimately competitive and the feminine strategy is ultimately anti competitive.
Also, I am using the word “competition” in the economic sense like OP did. You are not. Competing for a monopoly is not “competition”, it’s rent seeking. You have been informed of this multiple times and yet you continue to ignore it. Why?
Lib3rtarianSocialist 6y ago
Women's competing reduces competition in the market. It is paradoxical.
red_philosopher 6y ago
The issue is that men and women compete in different areas that coincidentally interact with each other. Hypergamy only increases the barrier of entry into the male SMP by forcing men to have a greater SMV in order to have access to female sexuality. It intensifies competition, it's not a monopoly by any stretch of the imagination.
Now, if we're discussing the impact of the female sexual imperative on the actual economy, I would disagree there as well. Market forces have shaped the economy towards a female-centric economy. It's not a reduction in competition, it's different competition.
Lib3rtarianSocialist 6y ago
Agreed.
I think the previous posters were talking about a different concept. However the competition remains there at the base. There are only arbitrary societal limitations placed on the competition.
sledge2k 6y ago
Competing for the right to a monopoly looks like rent seeking to me.
Also think he means that women are anti competitive in the sense that they seek to a monopoly on Chad's sperm and use government coercion to get it.
Beta males also seek to do the same.
Not so with alphas.
redditer0 6y ago
Strong competition won't care about rules.
Idealizing competition is stupid: why compete honestly when you can lobby for privileges, etc.
sledge2k 6y ago
I can't tell if you are making my point here or arguing against it.
In competitive markets there arent rules but incentives. And a large part of economics has to do with the fact that people respond more to incentives than rules. So I agree with you there.
But idealizing competition is not stupid. If we stop competing and go to the other extreme where you lobby for privileges as you say we have socialism. Socialism doesnt have an efficient pricing system so you get terrible resource allocation. In theory you'd be forced to marry a horse and bang her because she needs you the most.
I dont wanna bang horse, personally.
redditer0 6y ago
This is true.
"so you get terrible resource allocation"
But I'm not really sure capitalism has a much better resource allocation. For example, there's a lot of people in poverty, but a lot of resources are allocated to build iPhones, make advertisings for Coca Cola or whathever useless shit... poor people don't have money so there's no incentive to help them. A lot of resources are spent in really unnecessary stuff.
Also there's no incentive to take care of the environment.
"If we stop competing and go to the other extreme"
I'm not saying we should go to a no-competition system. I don't really know what is the solution. Idealizing a 100% society controlled by the state would be as stupid as idealizing a 100% pure market society (which probably would implode in weeks).
sledge2k 6y ago
Capitalism has an infinitely better resource allocation because it can utilize a decentralized mass of knowledge that socialism, by definition does not have (the pricing system). Forgive any perceived ad hominem, but your statements here are extremely ignorant of the historical record.
Regarding your statement that capitalism has no incentive to take care of the environment, this is also false. Not only is there every incentive to preserve the quality of your own property and environment, property rights and tort law give you an incentive to take care of your neighbors' as well (or else you will be sued for damages.) In any case, capitalism may even have more incentive for environmental protection than socialism because "tragedy of the commons" scenarios are not possible.
100% pure market society simply means one in which 100% of associations and transactions occur voluntarily. Why would that lead to implosion?
redditer0 6y ago
But for example, private companies have a very centralized decision hierarchy. It's because centralized decision is MORE efficient if you have the same goals. The problem with society as a whole is that different actors have different goals.
"100% of associations and transactions occur voluntarily"
Well, giving money because something is pointing you with a gun could have the same level of "voluntary" as taking a horrible job just for not dying of hungry. So I'm not sure the level of voluntary transactions are a good measure for how good a society is, even if we could agree with what voluntary is.
Anyway, I don't think we will agree but thanks for the conversation. I agree about the resource allocation problem for socialism. Basically the real problem about that is that we cannot read minds and every person knows better what they want. The problem is that what people want might be dangerous for society as a whole, and that's my critic of capitalism.
Librehombre 6y ago
I agree, I cant understand a red pill hillary voter or a red pill socialist.
killabeesindafront 6y ago
Hilary is pretty machiavellian
Librehombre 6y ago
True, and her and bill both treat all women as plates.
She and bill may be red pill but the world they wanna run will makes us Beta as fuck, BAF.
Lib3rtarianSocialist 6y ago
Hi, I am red pilled and lean socialist over capitalist. Before we discuss, let me make it clear. I am libertarian, therefore against statism, and socialism does not mean social democracy aka welfare capitalism, which is problematic, as the OP so well illustrates.
hexlich 6y ago
u cant be libertarian socialist its oxymoron. u either dont know what libertarian or socialism means, maybe both
Lib3rtarianSocialist 6y ago
Tell me why?
If you want me to I'll be happy to explain. Or else you can please tell me what they mean.
hexlich 6y ago
cuz if u had to sum up libertarian and socialist into one world, first one is voluntary second is obligatory, they are oposits, same as anarcho-commist. maybe u could be living in commune but its not socialism since its political-economic system. and if u leave in any developed country you should be happy, since there is so liberties and some social programs, which is best that could be fit into term libertarian socialist, if not pls describe what u think saying libertarian socialist, im really curious
Lib3rtarianSocialist 6y ago
If I sum up libertarian and socialist into one word each, libertarian means voluntary and socialist means anti-capitalist. You are thinking of statist, which means compulsory, not socialist. This is a problem encountered often, as many people have been sold the idea that socialism is "when the government does stuff". No. Socialism is anti-capitalism. Now there are many different types of socialists.
Libertarian socialist means someone opposed to forceful interference in people's lives by the state/government, and also opposed to capitalism, which is private ownership of the means of production by individuals through laws passed recognising private property rights.
Were you trying to say that anarcho-communist is also an oxymoron? I lean anarchist, by the way. Most libertarian socialists, though not all, are anarchist.
The liberties and social programs you describe, I will explain. Most developed countries are welfare capitalist. For economies which are capitalist but regulated and with wealth redistribution and social services, the technical term is social democracy. However, this is not socialism.
Most "libertarians" in the US are more accurately "libertarian capitalists", although I think they shouldn't be capitalists if they followed through with their logic.
hexlich 6y ago
how can u be libertarian saying someone cant own something? tell me, in your pefect world, what happen if someone doesnt want to take part in your commune? shot in back of the head?i think it would be fine, since ownership of yourself is based on"laws passed recognising private property rights". how can u have any right, selfownership, possible by existance of property rights, is only legit, consistent source of law, that is not backed by religion. i know specifics of "social democracies", i just used them as example of what could be fit into blured definition of "libertariansocialist society". how are u going to enforce socialism if there is no goverment apparatus? if there is something like libertarian socialist, is there free market communist?
[deleted] 6y ago
Libertarian socialist is just a nick name for anarchist.
Lib3rtarianSocialist 6y ago
Not all libertarian socialists are anarchists, but since most are, yes.
PsychedelicDentist 6y ago
What in the heck is your definition of socialism? Is it so loose or alternative to the dictionary version that it no longer is even socialism?
Capitalism in essence is freedom. The economic debate is well settled, socialism does not work.
hexlich 6y ago
socialism is system with "community" owned means of production and limited privet property
PsychedelicDentist 6y ago
Which is just ridiculous. To call yourself a libertarian and a socialist only demonstrates not knowing what either of those words mean
[deleted]
Lib3rtarianSocialist 6y ago
Socialism is public (as opposed to private) ownership of the means of production (factories, industrial machinery, tools, workplaces, other means). Do you disagree with this definition?
It is not. Capitalism is only a socio-economic system currently imposed on society. Freedom is different. Libertarianism actually represents freedom, unless you disagree.
This shows you are new to the debate, I'm sorry.
PsychedelicDentist 6y ago
I certainly agree with that being socialism - and what a hideous ideology that is.
No private property? You are telling me I am not allowed to own the product of my labour - that is slavery.
Capitalism is most certainly freedom. To not understand this is to not understand what capitalism is at all.
If I choose to trade A with someone who wants to trade B - we choose to do so voluntarily because I value B more than A, and the other party values A more than B. It is a win win situation. THIS is how free trade works.
It is only when a third party intervenes, and through the use of coercion that this win-win trade does not occur. It is only when someone is forced to trade that they can be made to lose on that trade - otherwise they would not partake in it. = THIS IS HOW GOVERNEMNT INTERVENTION WORKS.
New to the debate? What a fucking joke. Socialism led to the death of over 100million people in the last century. Sure even venezuala was socialism's beacon of hope until enough time passed for it to be exposed as what it is. Now the country is literally starving to death. You CLEARY do not understand what went wrong in all those countries.
What defines libertarianism is a mutual understanding in Austrian Economics. This is free trade and people being allowed to own that which they produce.
You do not have a right to that which I am earned honestly. And the only way the government takes the production of my labour is through force.
There is no moral claim to that which you have not produced.
This is the Red Pill of economics. Why am I so sure? I was once convinced of all the arguments you are putting forth to. That is the blue pill
sledge2k 6y ago
Holy shit man this is a fantastic write up. Being libertarian economist I subscribe to a bunch of those types of subreddits and I had to double take to make sure I saw Milton's mug on TRP.
Entropy-7 6y ago
In school, I hated group work. Since I was one of the top students, others wanted to hitch their wagon to me. I was too you to develop proper leasership skills and being put in a group was a directive from the teachers that I had no control over. The end result of a 4-person group is that I did at least half the work but we all shared the credit equally.
This is socialism. It is like "group work". Useless people get to share in my sucess as a matter or right.
And the worst part is the implications for democracy as an institution. I can't remember who said it or the exact quote but the failure of democracy is when people realize they can vote to get goodies for themselves. And so the bottom 51% can raid the piggy banks of the top 49%
Of course, 51% of the electorate are women.
The point is, if you are above average, you want to compete but if you are below average you want everything divided equally.
But here I am, working in China, a communist state that hasn't been communist for decades.
Fapisluv 6y ago
Both Plato and Aristotles wrote about that negative of "democracy".
Entropy-7 6y ago
Up until the 20th centrury, democracy was defined more like what we could call a "mobocracy". The term is a bit more nuanced now and includes republics and constitutional monarchies.
Some one party states, such as in Asia, abuse the term to create the fiction that they are acting for the people.
PoppinChlorine 6y ago
Why are sex and provision currencies and not goods/services? I guess there’s not too much of a difference economically, but it seems more obvious for them to be goods? Maybe I don’t fully understand the analogy?
PsychedelicDentist 6y ago
Money is a commodity. It is the commodity which is the best medium of exchange. Sex can that also fill that role to a lesser extend, as sex throughout history has been traded for value
ChadsLeftNut 6y ago
Taxation Is Theft and All Women Are Like That.
[deleted]
Lib3rtarianSocialist 6y ago
Excellent post. One nitpick.
I think this claim is false. Great read however.
PsychedelicDentist 6y ago
Read more austrian economics
Lib3rtarianSocialist 6y ago
Elaborate. As I see it, the existence of a middle class runs counter to the natural forces found in capitalism. Government, by existing, has in the past and present, actually aided a middle class existence for people. Otherwise, workers in Western countries would have the same wages as sweatshop workers in Brazil and Bangladesh.
PsychedelicDentist 6y ago
This is common thinking today, but the opposite of what is true. It is capitalism that CREATED the middle class. It has been every increasing government intervention that has led to its erosion. I'd recommend reading more of Milton Friedman or Thomas Sowell's work on this. "Why the government is the problem" by Friedman is a decent place to start.
Everyone in all of human history has been in absolute poverty in todays terms. It wasn't until capitalism was invented that that changed. Without capitalism, those in brazil and bangladesh would still be starving in fields