Alright, hi all, I need some advice & mental reinforcement.
So, LTR of mine (4 years) recently brought up a topic of our common future when it comes to finances. And she made it clear that for her the only obvious and natural perspective is having a one, common bank account, ofc not yet, but when we are able to establish a household. Having a common bank account is pretty common here in Poland. Even culturally default, i'd say.
My answer was a clear NOPE at first, and then I made a little step back, saying that ok, we can have a common bank account, but aside from that, we keep our independent accounts. And that we would assign a percentage of our incomes to go to the common account. I genuinely think it's the perfect, most logical solution.
The girl is still unhappy about this perspective.
To put some context:
- me - 29, an engineer, decent income, definitely not rich, but I can afford renting a tiny flat, having a car, 2 motorcycles, a trip once in a while and I still save around 20% of my income;
- her - 25, a university student (last year), still living with her parents, had some side jobs in her past and made some savings, which are still growing, not shrinking;
- we see each other mostly on weekends, usually in my flat. Sex and fun all the time.
She's careful with her expenses, this I can vouch for, and she's actually hardworking and idealistic (clear employment perspectives in her field of social work administration). I don't think she would be taking advantage of my resources, but damn, i'd just feel uncomfortable buying some expensive motorcycle parts with money coming from a shared account. Or buying her a gift with the same money. Or seeing in the account history how much did her gift for me cost. Just, weird. And I like my independence. I reeeally like it, the fact that I can just do with my money what I like, and I don't see why I should be giving up on that.
To her, me insisting on having 2+1 accounts instead of one common is a sign of:
- being immature (coming from a person still living with her parents, lol),
- not trusting her,
- my inability to think about a common future, only about mine,
- my inability to make any consessions while she gives me so much freedom and while I risk nothing and she risks all,
- her having to bear consequences of what my ex girlfriend did (my previus LTR managed to convince me to pay all our bills when we lived together, i was so plugged in back then. I've never told that to my current LTR, but I'm not making the same mistake again).
So, I thought "check!" and I proposed to create a common bank account right away, and start putting there some spare change together - as a symbol of mutual trust and working towards a common goal, but apparently that's not addressing her concerns.
To be honest, I AM very individualistic, and I may have some scars and issues with trust, coming from my bad experiences with my previous LTR. And i probably AM oversensitive when it comes to my independence. And I've been avoiding the topic of having kids at all, while she clearly wants to have them. And I'm kinda keeping her hanging on this topic, because I still don't know if I want to start a family, while her most fertile and healthy for pregnancy years are right now passing by. So it's not like she's completely nuts and out of arguments when it comes to trust and concessions and so on. For the last months the idea of starting a family in let's say 3 years has been growing on me, but now, this situation has freaked me out. Red lights flashing in my brain.
I just need some commentary, perspective from people with cool heads. Gotta put things in order in my self-critical head before I make any big decisions. Why the hell would the idea of us having some independent finances be so bothersome to her? How do I handle this so that I don't compromise my frame and my core value (independence), while being fair to her, a human being I have basic respect for?
Edit: Maybe this should go to /Ask TRP instead of /LTR...
NotaBene 2y ago
There was a time when (in general) wives were kept pretty much in the dark about the family finances. My FIL and MIL are like this. MIL has no idea how much they have in savings or how they are doing, except in vague terms. It's worked for them like 50 years. She gets an allowance for different things and is generally content to be taken care of and in the dark. She doesn't have to worry about it and just trusts FIL.
I think one of the responsibilities of husbands is to "protect" the family in the financial sense - planning for the future, saving for big things, spending below means, avoiding debt. Responsibility requires authority. Authority requires submission. In a good marriage, this circle is unbroken, and everything works smoothly. A wife "demanding" control or input into these decisions needs to be put in her place by denying her any input at all, and keeping things separate and her in the dark. Trust is earned over time by her submission to authority, not by whining or manipulating. Even then, it can be beneficial to keep her in the dark, because wives tend to worry and think they have to control their husbands when they worry. They are also not good with money, on average, and simply lack the capacity to do the things I listed above.
In my marriage I trust my submissive tradwife, so the common bank account is not a big deal. I make all the decisions with money, and she helps the family by doing secretarial work (paying bills, depositing checks, whatever). Years ago I came up with a great system that we still use today, giving us both "budget" money and encouraging thrifty spending and saving.
mattyanon Admin 2y ago
Ask yourself why she would be unhappy with this arrangement,
Yes, yes, yes she would. In her head they are "our resources". "We are a team". You put your money in and she spends it.
Look, this is just an attack on you to make you share YOUR money with HER.
Look dude, wake up...... she's not interested in a common goal, she's interested in you providing for her.
Right. She's manouvering you into marriage and kids.
Because she's not planning on doing the earning...... or at least she's planning on earning a lot less than you.
It's your job to be fair to YOU. She'll look out for herself, relentlessly, always.
Let me tell you a story about two people I know. Boy and girl have jobs. Get married, joint account, etc. "Hey boy, let's move to the country, be better for your career and for raising kids". They move to follow his career, he's got a promotion. She mysteriously "can't find another job yet". He supports her. You can see how this goes. Then it's kids and of course she "can't work as a mother". etc. etc. and before you know it, incrementally one step at a time, he is now FUCKED.
If you provide for a woman you will legally be expected to provide for her in future. That's how it works. She wants a standard providership marriage where you work and she does whatever. How are you gonna force her to go back to work when the kids are 5? 10? 20? You can't, and at every step of the way she can steal your kids, house, car and future income if you don't comply. This is not an abuse of the system, this is the system working exactly as intended.
You wanna be free, stay fucking free. Don't let her shame your choices. In fact her using shaming tactics proves that she's being irrational and manipulative here.
Your life, your wallet, YOUR CHOICE.
Articuno 2y ago
Okay, so I brought up the topic, stated again what's my opinion and sticked to it.
Results: her whinig for a few minutes (she had the audacity to call ME manipulative, lol), then her panties magically got wet, i fucked her, and now she's happy.
In the end, it was just a shit test of a greater caliber I've been used to.
Thanks.
mattyanon Admin 2y ago
Great result...... for now. she'll circle back again, but enjoy the peace and quiet meanwhile.
Intrepid_Place53900 1 2y ago
Nothing wrong keeping your own bank accounts , it's YOUR money.
she lives with her parents, why do you need a shared account? Does she want to pay for your apartment? Your food? ;)
Until you live together, there should not be a shared account, IMO. And, if you do live together, you split 50/50. You always here about this "sharing" shit from women, when it's in their favor. They'll say, you make more, you should put more in, so, like 70-30, but you'd NEVER hear that if SHE made more, she'd be like , WTF? I'm not putting more in than you.
Me, I make at least 50% more than my LTR who I live with, "her" place.
We split 50/50, I pay rent, modest amount. I can split very easily, I don't own any of the furniture, the house,etc. What's mine is mine, what's hers is hers. She doesn't have access to any of my accounts,etc. Why should she, we aren't married, right.
We don't have kids, if you have kids with her, she'll probably stop working, work less, which means YOU end up supporting her and kids. Is that ok with you? That's what you have to think about and the path you are on.
If you have 2 kids for example, she stays home or works less until they are school age, so, could be like 10 years, you are by far the bread winner, you are supporting them all. You are the (provider).
she's already trying to train you into a married situation, everything is "ours", there's no , yours and mine. I did that once, never again for me.
The kids is what makes it tough, so that's your focal point, you want kids or not,etc.
Articuno 2y ago
The talk was about a shared account in the future, when we hypothetically live together. She knows it's not gonna happen for at least a few years, so that's also why I was suprised she brought it up.
I think I managed to handle it okayish in the end. Stated that I won't resign from having my own personal account and didn't yield. She whined for a few minutes, then got horny, so I fucked her and now she's all giggly and overall happy.
Shit tests everywhere.
Intrepid_Place53900 1 2y ago
yup, she's testing you. will he commit to me? she's looking for LTR/marriage probably and you'll get more of these tests for sure.
be prepared, start hiding your money if you think she's worth having a LTR with. Make sure you live below your means and don't let her know what you have.
Articuno 2y ago
You may be right. Creating a secret secondary account won't hurt for sure.
coolsocks00 1 2y ago
I had this exact scenario play out with my ex-LTR and it made me realise this actually was one of our few irreconcilable differences.
Your GF is already gaslighting you to some extent over your personal opinions. This is a very bad sign, and also a sign that you may be in her frame a lot. This was never an issue for me, or a topic at all really, when our relationship was in a healthy state where i held frame well.
Your idea with a joint account aside from your personal ones is fine IMO. If you have established that she holds any considerable extra responsibilities and tasks (e.g. extra care for a baby) i would also be fine with taking on a bigger share of mutual expenses, savings, etc.
I would not marry and i would have a contract if it's a shared living situation.
Bulba 2y ago
She wants you to play the role of a traditional man while she plays the role of a modern woman.
There’s no way I would have a common bank account unless I was married to a tradwife that had no occupation other than raising my children and supporting my mission.
I say keep your bank account and let her whine about it.
Articuno 2y ago
So, I told her i'm keeping my bank account and let her whine. Whining lasted for a few minutes, then she got horny. Oh well.
Thanks.
No-Stress-Cat 2y ago
Nope nope nope nope. You have your separate account, and she has hers. Having a shared account, you will find you put in most of the money, and she dwindles it away. She will justify it as "we needed stuff." Meanwhile, your plans go up in smoke because she spent the money you intended on doing whatever with. You're not married, and you don't live together. There's no reason you would need a shared account.
Clear employment perspectives mean nothing. As soon as she moves in, you'll find very quickly how those perspectives "didn't pan out." All those bullet points you put up there is nothing but shaming language. She's trying to guilt trip you into doing something you already aren't comfortable with doing. Get your head out of your ass, bro. Set your boundaries and stick to them. If she can't respect your boundaries, then she's better off staying with her parents until some other sucker comes along.
Keeping her hanging on the topic of kids? The idea is starting to grow on you? Bro, she's sucking you in big time. If you don't want kids, tell her flat out, "I don't want kids." If that's a deal-breaker, so be it. You two have to be on the same page, or this relationship is going to turn out to be a miserable train wreck - FOR YOU.
Red lights flashing in your brain are there for a reason, and you SHOULD NOT IGNORE THEM. You've lost your frame, bro, and she's got you going in all different kinds of directions because she knows she can manipulate you, and you're letting her. My advice to you is take back the lead, TELL her how things are going to be (not ask, not debate, not compromise), and if she can't get with your program, then you need to TELL her that your ship is sailing, with or without her.
Articuno 2y ago
Okay, so, that's what I did. Brought up the topic, stated again what's my opinion and sticked to it.
Results: her whinig for a few minutes, then her panties got wet, so we fucked, and now she's happy.
In the end, it was jut a shit test, I guess.
Thanks.
No-Stress-Cat 2y ago
Grats, bro! Welcome back!
whytehorse2021 2y ago
I didn't get a joint account with my wife until we'd been married a long time. I do all the finances, bill paying, investing, etc. She has access to the account for emergencies and my convenience. I actually lost my card in Indonesia one time and it was a life saver to have hers. Sometimes she'll pick up stuff at the store on her way home.
I consider it an issue of frame. I have all the responsibility so I get all the authority. She checks with with me first before making purchases, not the other way around. In every marriage I've seen where the woman does all the finances, the man is in her frame and it usually ends in divorce.
Articuno 2y ago
Seems reasonable. I wouldn't mind giving my LTR (let's consider her potential future wife) access to my account for emergency purposes.
Intrepid_Place53900 1 2y ago
(wouldn't mind giving her access to my account for emergency purposes). That's a big NO for me
You aren't married, you don't live together, why do you need a "shared" account, unless she wants to contribute to your rent? ;0 A little sarc, but honestly, why, she's training your mind to get into a (ours), not yours and mine.
whytehorse2021 2y ago
Yeah I think the problem lies in women trying to be men. Having their own career, income, bank account, house, etc. In an effective family unit, the relationship is communal(what's yours is mine, what's mine is yours). It's a terrible waste of resources to have separate homes, bills, groceries, etc. I guess this is the new order way of doing things so we'll have to come up with new ways of thinking to deal with it.
I suppose the red pill aware way of dealing with this new order is to only invest in yourself. As your value grows she will want you more. Don't get a joint account that she can then use to invest in herself to make her have a higher value and then take it with her when she leaves. Fake boobs, anyone?