There's been some bitching and moaning about GLO's thread about women in relationships being easy pickings. Allow me to put some things to rest:
- Game itself is amoral
- There's no need for the butthurt over "stealing" another man's gf or wife, namely because you cannot "steal" someone. It's a myth I'll elaborate on below...
First things first, "women are like monkeys." When I say women are like monkeys it's in the Tarzan sense of swinging from tree to tree. They don't let go of one branch until they have a firm grip on the next. Women are the same way with relationships. That's essentially Rule #1 why high quality women are so rarely single for any length of time.
Not wanting to go after a woman in a relationship, IMO, really comes down to being a limiting belief. Case in point: roughly half of all marriages fail nowadays, and unmarried couples in relationships break up even more. It's not uncommon for attractive women to go directly from one man to the next, this is why they're rarely single for any length of time: they have new guys lined up already! Once you face this reality then you can use it to your advantage.
What it comes right down to, in all honesty, is that if boyfriends mattered so much then women wouldn't give their numbers out to some certain types of men and tell others they're seeing someone. (or in some cases turn out to be married!) Many women are on the lookout for the next best thing for a variety of reasons (see also: hypergamy & Briffault's Law). If you're not that guy then it's just going to be someone else.
To quote Decibel, author of the PUA Field Guide from a few years back (which I contributed to writing):
Make girls happy, that's your job. Take that girl out of her unhappy relationship and show her a better time. She'll thank you for it. She's not going to break up with her current BF for many reasons including: girls like sex and won't give it up needlessly; girls like having someone to hang out with and will overlook other problems in him but are constantly watching for better options; breaking up takes a bunch of emotional effort that many people avoid until something else is lined up.
I personally would get yourself past the boyfriend/girlfriend hurdle and keep gaming these 'unavailable' girls. It many times is just a fling that's gone on too long, and many of these chicks are more than happy to jump ship when a [high quality] guy...comes along.
....
You can't "steal" a girl, as ballsy as it sounds. She makes her mind up to go with the higher value man. All you can do is present a better option. [emphasis mine]As far the ethics of it, there aren't any. All girls are fair game. You make your own rules about what's off limits, and then go from there. I hit on girls in front of their BFs all the time. I usually ask her if it's ok for me to do it. It's his problem, not mine.
In other words there is no reason to wait or hold back from pursuing a woman you're interested in, even if she's in a relationship. If their relationship is strong, then nothing you say or do will change that. But...you may just be a better match for her than her current SO and the both of you would be missing out on something awesome if you hold back.
One last thing, if you're not familiar with Boyfriend Objections, they're the automatic response women throw out if you telegraph too much interest or move too fast. Sometimes the boyfriend is real, other times they are not. As a rule of thumb treat the bf objection as a shit test. Basically when that happens it's just a test to see if you've got the stones to keep pushing. If he's real, she will definitely bring it up again and you can adjust your Game accordingly, or stop gaming her and shift into making a new friend who's friends you can add as plates instead.
More often than not I've found when a woman tosses out the old bf objection, if I agree & amplify and quickly change subjects, there's no more talk of a boyfriend if one doesn't exist. However, expect another mention later on if he is in fact real, but again, don't let that stop you. This traces right back to "Always let a woman figure out why she wont fuck you, never do it for her."
cariboo_j 10y ago
New to TRP.
Seems like TRP ideas are useful tools or at least useful foils to feminist dogma, not sure if I'm gonna agree with everything on here yet.
Anyways
"It's not uncommon for attractive women to go directly from one man to the next"
I avoid women like this. From my experience/observations they are looking for some prince charming to sweep them off their feet and solve all their problems, not a real partner. They will eventually become dissatisfied with the relationship and break it off when it doesn't meet their unrealistic expectations.
Far better to look for a girl who takes time to reflect and refocus her goals after an LTR ends.
KyfhoMyoba 10y ago
Think about this: women like sex. If a woman is at all attractive, she will be having sex with SOMEONE. Ergo, any and all attractive women have some kind of sexual arrangement prior to you meeting/gaming them. If you remove "taken" women from your field of targets, you have no field left.
[deleted] 10y ago
This. I always think that if a woman is beautiful enough to be attractive to me, she must have a boyfriend. If she doesn't, it's almost a red flag.
And then I just push on.
[deleted] 10y ago
Whether or not to bag a "taken" girl is one thing; understanding the concept is another.
I do think the issue of monogamy is a relevant issue to TRP and what it means to be TRP. GLO clearly has his view on the matter. Even if you are the polar opposite, his post is still important, especially if you are completely on the opposite side. The more monogamy is important to you, the more you need to understand what GLO is saying.
Whether or not it is moral is one thing, but what I don't hear anybody saying is that it is untrue. That's key. If monogamy is important to you then you damn well better understand this. If you do not understand this, then you're asking for a situation wherein you're being monogamous and she's just lying.
vandaalen 10y ago
With this being the third thread about this, I finally chose to throw in my zwei reichspfennig.
I've been fucking married women. I even had a successful mid-level manegment wife who would fly all the way from South Tirol to Cologne (800km/500miles), bring a bag full of coke, pay for a hotelroom and drinks, just to get fucked by me once a month. Her husband was a high-ranking member of the Austrian military who had slowly transitioned from AF to BB.
Personally, I wouldn't engage with a married woman anymore, but I really couldn't give less fucks, if a girl has a boyfriend. /u/illimitableman's "Schrödinger's boyfriend" still rings in my ears. In fact I am gaming a "taken" girl right now.
GLO's post to me was just amusing, as all of his stuff is, and maybe lacked a little bit of valuable content or new insights, but meh, who cares?
All that concern trolling that started then, with all the newbies, polishing their armour and sharpening their swords, to be ready to jump in for a bro, was just as hilarious.
All that said, I have to say, that I am also astonished by the amount of mind-gymnastics and male hamstering some guys are willing to make to justify it to themselves.
Dude. I don't give a fuck, if you choose to be the wife pleaser or if you game "taken" girls, because it is easier, but let's not confuse things here.
Sex is amoral and strategy is amoral, as well as power is. Agree. What isn't though, is context and intention.
If you go and fuck a married woman, you defy a social norm. No big deal here. I do it all the time. In minor ways, because I refuse to pay for public transit and in major ways, when I screw with my taxes.
I do it, because I can and the system let's me abuse it. I don't have sleepless nights over it, because I found ways to justify it to myself. Yet still it isn't objectively morally right to do so. I effectively steal from society, because others have to make up for what I do not contribute.
When you are willingly helping a woman to cheat on her husband, at least have the balls to admit, that it objectively is wrong.
All the comments I have read and all the justifications provided, are the same you'll hear, if you ask a heroin-dealer, why he hasn't got a bad concious, when producing or selling the stuff.
You are just creating strawmen to be able to shift blame away from you and don't have to take responsibility. You know who also does? Yep. Femicunts and SJWs. It's not their fault, it's nature, society and genetics, that makes them fat, lazy, a looser and everything else.
If you fuck married women, you are actively participating in the process of cheating and with all the knowledge you possess about the female nature, I'd even say that you should be responsible with even higher standards, than some AFC, who got lucky and fucked a married woman because he unknowingly gamed her at the right moment.
You are actively participating in the destruction of a relationship or even a family. When you say "she didn't accidently slip and land on his dick" the same also applies to you. You also didn't just slip and accidently rammed her til she was sore and then your dick slipped out and gave her a facial.
I don't justify cheating wifes in full hypergamous mode, but I also refrain from justifying your part in all of that.
To me, you are just a desperate fucker, who hasn't got his dick under control. There's so many woman out there and nothing will explain, why it's got to be this particular untrustworthy slut.
If it's just about the "outstanding sex", I tell you, that maybe you just suck in bed and aren't able to make a woman behave like your personal whore.
I really don't care what you do, you have to stand your look in the mirror, and you have to have a personal code of moral and honour, that you follow, but please spare me from your hamstering and ludicrous attempts to justify it.
Overkillengine 10y ago
I take a utilitarian approach to it.
I realize that you get the behavior you reward. Rewarding women for being unfaithful with cock just encourages them to be unfaithful.
There are more than enough women out there that one does not have to reward the ones behaving badly.
I don't reward other men for behaving badly. I don't reward children for behaving badly. I don't reward animals for behaving badly.
When then should anyone reward a woman for behaving badly? The only reason I can come up with is that is if the short term interest in getting laid is stronger than the long term interest of not rewarding bad behavior.
So let's not pretend it is anything other than that.
thebalrog_ofmorgoth 10y ago
thank you for saying this. In terms of morals I take a utilitarian approach up to a point as well. It's a bit of a mute point though, because as far as I am concerned, all morality is logically and philosophically absurd. Which is to say it is essentially a misperception and worthless; nothing more than shackles to the mind.
so yeah, it may be objectively wrong by causing more pain than happiness (i am assuming. the opposite may be true, who knows), But it doesn't matter anyway.
My moral code: you & your best interests are the greatest good and the God of your own universe/perception. to you, it's the only one that means anything
HenryDavidThrowaway9 10y ago
I'm glad to hear your thoughts on this because I agree with you fully. Sex itself is amoral; there is nothing right or wrong about plowing a woman, getting head in a backseat of a car or any else in between.
Intent is either moral or immoral. I discovered the Red Pill's ideal through its similarity to Egoism (which is a full topic for another day). Egoism presents a moral ideal: exalt yourself. Whether this is the rational choice or innate in every person depends on which camp you choose. Is this not at the core of Red Pill? Society does not value or exalt us, so we need to do it ourselves.
This is why there is so much more to TRP than just game and sex. It's about your work ethic, motivations, personal life: bettering yourself and reaching towards your ideal. It is no coincidence that this makes men great. Great men are attractive and successful. The world was built from great men who worked for their own ego. They took wives, had children, built skyscrapers for their own pride. This is why TRP warns against pedestalizing women. I would extent this: pedestalize no one but yourself.
This does not make cheating moral. Cheating tells the woman her hypergamous behavior is right (in the moral sense), even if it is destructive to families. I agree with you that the reasons given by many people here are hamstering and fundamentally irrational. Your point "I'd even say that you should be responsible with even higher standards, than some AFC, who got lucky and fucked a married woman because he unknowingly gamed her at the right moment" is something I plan to think on further.
The justification for this is the same style of hamstering we denigrate women for using. But, maybe I'm still too new to this. I see the ideals behind The Red Pill as moral. Moral ideals provide a right and wrong framework. Absolutes have to exist, or we run the risk of ending up like the Femicunts we regularly mock.
DRMMR76 10y ago
Then you shouldn't be upset if you ever get caught and put in a hospital. After all, the consequences of your actions must be amoral too.
ScumbagBillionaire 10y ago
You have my upvote for everything you said until this point.
Morality is not objective nor will it ever be.
Take your moral qualms to r/Catholicism or r/Islam
vandaalen 10y ago
If that would be true, argueing about morality, amorality or immorality has no point at all.
Also I don't project my personal ethical qualms on others as stated in my post. As said: Do what you like, but spare me from your gymnastics.
ScumbagBillionaire 10y ago
Hence the FUCKING SIDEBAR.
The thing you're supposed to read before you even start reading the posts on this subreddit let alone participating in them
Sexual strategy is amoral. This is one of the foundations of theredpill and everything it's about.
To even try to argue otherwise would be like a Muslim arguing with other Muslims that Allah is possibly not God and that Muhammad is not indeed His messenger.
Next I'll be hearing arguments about why NAWALT and a unicorn has been discovered.
vandaalen 10y ago
Are you drunk? I don't deny it. If you take a deep breath and re-read my original comment, this time trying really hard to comprehend what I write, you might even be able to find the passage where I exactly state this.
ScumbagBillionaire 10y ago
Exactly. There is no point in arguing about morality because theredpill is amoral.
Without morals/morality.
[deleted] 10y ago
I don't want to read bro-knighting about taken women. I want to read field reports and tips about them.
I've been gaming this girl for a while, just to practice and push limits. Before TRP I would have classified her as a good girl - shy, talks only when necessary, speaks with soft voice, seems submissive, no tattoos or anything, long hair, pretty face and all around feminine woman. Almost like she was from the 50s. She works for the city and kind of takes care of some of my job related stuff, so I see her 1-2 times a month + phone calls.
Even though I've been pushing the envelope, she has never said she is taken/has a boyfriend/is seeing someone/stop hitting on me etc.
My boss talked to her on the phone last week. Their first phone call. And she revealed to him that she has a boyfriend and they are going for a trip together for Christmas break.
Before TRP I would have been devastated. "She has a boyfriend, now I can't try to get with her anymore, boooohooo." Now, after TRP, I can see the situation clearly.
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[deleted] 10y ago
That's what I'm doing right now, focusing on my plates and just having fun with her. She's 1-2 years from the wall and I'm under 25 so if she throws herself at me, cool. Otherwise, who cares? She's great for training everything I've learned AND to remind me how things really are.
kondziu160 10y ago
cool story bro (I mean seriously)
I wish I knew that phenomenon before. I used to retreat right after hearing any mention concerning BF. It fucked up 4 cases one of which I regret a lot (LTR potential which I am looking for). Nevertheless I perceive this knowledge as a breakthrough for the reasons described above.
[deleted] 10y ago
You would LTR someone who cheats on her boyfriend with you?
AFPJ 10y ago
LTR is just a protracted fuck buddy you can be seen with or take places without damaging your social standing. Women who wouldn't cheat under the right conditions are unicorns: they don't exist. In an age where most social constraints & repercussions are gone to the point of (literally) "if men cheat, it's their fault. if they get cheated on, it's their fault" what possible reason could a woman have to not fuck a hotter / higher status guy than her current?
Morality? Loyalty? Those are male values. Women live in the moment, driven by their emotions of that moment.
The only way to not get cheated on is to be the best she can do & have her know it. Think you can do that?
kondziu160 10y ago
Your case, as well as mine, are free from cheating.
[deleted] 10y ago
I read that you retreated after hearing she had a boyfriend and now you regret it, because she was LTR material.
[deleted] 10y ago
This shit is getting extremely meta.
[deleted] 10y ago
Lol, a few years ago when I was in college.. I was gaming this cute little hipster girl who was in my Latin class. She referred to her boyfriend as "a boyfriend-thing". I laughed and said "Sounds like you don't take him too seriously" to which she said they fight a lot or something like that.
Some women are just addicted to monogamy. They'll stay with men they despise for the security of it. It's like hanging out with friends you don't really like or have anything in common with, it's just an excuse to be social. If any other friends were around that you value more, you'd hit them up first.
EDIT: Also, any guys who have had attractive girlfriends know that they get hit on just as often as you press down on your brakes in bumper to bumper traffic. That's just the way it is. Smart guys know how to adapt to this and AMOG whoever's hitting on their girl or DHV them in some way.
RedPillSafe 10y ago
You can't steal what can't be owned !!!
Anyone can go to a public park and you can't say it's private property because it isn't.
The law will protect anyone who wants to be at a public park as long as they abide by the laws.
edwardhwhite 10y ago
Whether or not a person chooses to go this route is their call. But some folks are gonna be pissed off, because of mate guarding. So take that into account. Also fucking a friend's woman will end that frie
[deleted] 10y ago
Fucking your friend's girlfriend or even trying to make a move will probably warrant a trip to the hospital. At least make sure you have health insurance beforehand. Back in my BP days, an old friend of mine was hitting on my girlfriend at a party trying to touch her and stuff, she told me about it. He wound up leaving that party with a broken nose and calling me an "abusive animal". This got my girlfriend at the time horny as hell.
bobbatosakosanose 10y ago
I don't see how mate guarding is beta. Don't animals mate guard all the time? I mean their whole lives revolve around having sex and guarding their mates and territory. I can see a dude getting his @ss kicked for hitting on a mafia boss's or a thug's piece. This stuff is super common in gangs. They kick your ass if you fuck with their ho's. I think Arab princes would probably use their muscle to get the players ass kicked. And the woman would be thrown out of the harem. Its disrespect and a challenge to an alpha mans dominance. Those with power do something instead of ignoring it. Think about any dictator or any strong arm monarch. This shit don't fly.
[deleted] 10y ago
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[deleted] 10y ago
Things to take into account when going for a taken woman: 1) Is she a GF of someone valuable (colleague/connection, friend, relative etc)? 2) Do you work at the same place as her? 3) Does she live in the same apartment building as you?
I don't believe in vicious boyfriends looking for revenge. Not here in the west at least.
whatsazipper 10y ago
Right, but that is far, far from the norm, especially if you're in a liberal area. They're more likely to try to negotiate for a 'poly' arrangement, lol.
twistedbrother2 10y ago
.44 revolver unless you mean a DE.
thebluepillsucked 10y ago
I have buddies that have met several of these options before...
Sometimes you have to wager, whether the juice is worth the squeeze. I prefer single women
caddyheni 10y ago
TL;DR stop being a cowardly little girl you faggot
This is stupid and never happens. You're a beta concern trolling alpha-shamer.
I've fucked several wives of guys with guns. Guys who brandish weapons and posture.
They're pussies. If they weren't fundamentally weak they:
a) wouldn't need to surround themselves with guns to feel like a man
b) wouldn't have a wife who wants to fuck other men.
Seriously... 999,999 out of a million beta losers who get cuckholded are NOT going to get violent in any way, let alone murderous.
Especially once these guys have kids (or think they have kids) they aren't going to kill themselves.
Your mentioning of all these guns is clearly YOUR POWER FANTASY and you being BUTTHURT cause women don't want your cock.
Stop being pussies. You're more likely to die in a car crash, of obesity, or of sex-starved stress related illnesses by a thousand times than to die to murder of a husband who, if worst came to worst, you could just say "I didn't know she was married. Why is your deal with your wife my problem, loser?"
But anyway that never happens because the guys never seek you out, they never have any real balls, and if you lift they'll be scared of you anyway.
I can carry a gun too. If some husband comes knocking on my door I'm not opening the door like an idiot. I have the legal right in my state to kill people on my property if they have a gun and I have the home field advantage
TL;DR stop being a cowardly little girl you faggot
NoRegretj 10y ago
You have a point but men who kill themselves over women are actually rather abundant in western society.
franklyforthright 10y ago
Only weak men kill for a women
[deleted] 10y ago
Weak men are a dime a dozen.
[deleted] 10y ago
Well that's the problem isn't it. It's far more likely that "beta" males will be in this situation but "beta" males are also more likely to blow your brains out. There is nothing more beta than pulling a gun on someone when you know they aren't armed. An alpha male would just kick the bitch to the curb and maybe beat your ass. A beta would likely get emotional and distressed he would shoot your ass.
Adolf_ghandi 10y ago
Strange. I do not see a lot of stories about divorce raped guys shooting their ex. Which would piss me off a lot more then a guy fucking my girl.
cheeky--kunt 10y ago
we got field reports only from those who didn't get caught...
skimdit 10y ago
I've never been shot at but I was nearly jumped by some wannabe gangster's friends outside a dance club once. As I sped out of there she texted me to apologize and make plans to meet up. I never replied. Not worth the hassle.
BlackHeart89 10y ago
I understand why people are getting all upset over the post. I really do. But they have to accept reality for what it is. Women cheat. End of story. I personally prefer to pass on women that are in a committed(?) relationship. But whenever I'm on a drought, every chick, taken or not, is a target.
If she's a good woman, I won't be able to fuck her. If she isn't, then yeah... you know the deal. Thats the reality of the situation. Would I feel bad about it? Yeah. To a certain extent. But not as bad as I would feel about sitting around with desert dick as everyone is having fun. So fuck it. Accept it. Instead of expecting every man to be as virtuous as you, make sure the bitch you choose to LTR is really committed. Either that or make sure you're not too invested in this woman.
bitches_be_crazy86 10y ago
I agree completely. Women have always used sex to gain access to resources or commitment. They put out to get something in return.
If you're fucking a taken bitch then she's a slut as she's well aware that she's breeching the unwritten contract of having a relationship.
rainmeter1 10y ago
Talk about being pussy-besotted to the extreme. You're risking your life for some chick who has a boyfriend when plenty out there don't have one. And this nonsense of attractive women 24/7 having sex lmao, you talk to many women? I know a Russian super model - none of you would be able to touch her - who keeps whinning on guys don't throw themselves at her. She needs a master level guru pick up artist level 90! with the lockpick perk!