There is a significant split between the "Red Pill" philosophy here and the perspective of the incel community known as the "Black Pill." The term for TRP, of course, comes from The Matrix in which "taking the red pill" will pull the wool from your eyes and wake you up to the actual reality around you, giving you a chance to fight back from your exploitation within the system. Specifically, the reality of being a man in the sexual market of modern society and how to improve your position therein.
When incels talk about "taking the black pill," they also mean an awakening, but specifically a nihilistic awakening into a bleak and immutable fate that lays before you. The sexual marketplace is predeterimined from the start, so if you can't win, don't try. This difference is key.
The Sexual Reality
We all know the Pareto principle: that the top 20% of a group typically reaps 80% of the rewards within a system. In the sexual marketplace, generally speaking, the top quintile of men are getting the lion's share of sex, with rapidly diminishing returns down the line.
This bears out in the stats: an American man at the 50th percentile (median) has had 6 sexual partners in his lifetime. A man at the 80th percentile has had 15 partners (and it must dramatically increase from there). Genetic history proves that, throughout history, a disproportionately small ratio of men were mating with all the mothers and passing their genes to the next generation. At one point in early-civilization human history, mothers outnumbered fathers 10:3.
...So, some guys get laid and others don't, and that's the way it's always been. Okay. But what's the difference between the Red Pill and Black Pill reation to this?
Black-Pillers are Game-Denialists
Elliot Rodgers is a grim hero to the Black Pill community. He regularly posted on PUA Hate, which was an anti-pickup artist, anti-game forum that made fun of the professional pickup artist community for, in their belief, selling something that doesn't exist. They basically believed that game can't get you laid, and PUAs are all snake oil salesmen peddling fakery.
This bears out in the Black Pill incel community, which essentially believes that your looks, height, and race will either make you a "Chad" by birth or be damned to a pitiful sexual existence. Anything else (money, personality, status, frame...) will barely move the needle.
The thing about Elliot Rodgers (besides his clear emotional issues) is that he came from a well-off family and wasn't an ugly guy. I guarantee, if he made different choices and learned game instead of denying it, he could have had a normal sex life. He was just an introvert who idolized those USC sorority sluts. Of course they rejected him for SoCal frat bros. In his game-denialism, he refused to see there were other options for him.
Black Pillers reject this argument because "as a normie, you wouldn't understand, and any girl you game will really just be pining for a true Chad..." It's a self-fulfilling prophecy of failure.
There are TrueCel men out there, of course. But if you are not physically deformed or mentally handicapped, game has the power to elevate your abilities and dampen whatever challenges you have (be it height, race, or what have you). Black Pillers overestimate these challenges to be impenetrable mountains when they are just hills and walls, and those can be conquered with the right tools.
The Red Pill moves past the anger stage
Because the Black Pill offers no solutions, and only bleak hopelessness, the progress moves something like this:
- Taking the Black Pill
- Awakening to harsh reality of "inceldom"
And that's it. Because their ideology does not offer any tools for moving forward, they are stuck at number 2 in the anger stage. If you ever read the incel forums, it is like lobsters in a bucket, dragging each other down so no one can escape.
Someone awakening to the Red Pill, on other hand, can experience something like this:
- Taking the Red Pill
- Awakening to the realities of the sexual market place
- Anger about being misled by society up to that point
- Learning how to cope, then navigate, then succeed in the SMP
- Improvement and success
You'll notice that the post flairs in TRP fall under numbers 3-5. Venting and Blue Pill Examples fall under 3, Red Pill Theory and Building Power falls under 4, Field Reports and Red Pill Examples fall under 5.
TRP offers the tools to deliver you out of the awakening and anger stage, and towards a more successful life. This is why there are no mass-murderers trying to further a "red pill revolution." The revolution is already occurring, individually, when you make those changes in your life, study and improve your game, develop your masculine and successful lifestyle.
EventHorizonMeltdown 6y ago
I guess I am at stage 3- 4? I understood that something was off for a long time but couldn't bother to care. After all, why would I when I can masturbate to porn every evening? I know I have the potential to attract, but I've always been so detached my whole life, I still am and will always be, that's my design and I won't pretend to be something I'm not. I tend to forget myself in possibilities and greed. "I want her, but I couldn't, I haven't nothing to bring on the table" What doesn't help is that I am much more attracted to women who are a little older than me, and the younger ones are uninteresting to me. I wouldn't say no to them, but I don't want to try to chase her, I'm not interested, I'd rather have them crawl out to me. Which is quite hypocritical. I can't say I've been rejected by many women, I really tried only once in the most blue pill way possible and I fucked up, but now that I think about it, it was obvious from the start. I want to improve myself, obviously, I made efforts independently of TRP but I still need something to click. I know what I have to do, it's more than shyness, it's simply denial of many things. For example I don't like to dance. I just don't like it, and that's not negociable. Let's say that I won't shatter my world for pussy I don't value, it explains why I would not mind having women crawl to me and I just have to basically accept the succ.
radicalizedIncel 6y ago
I used to be like you guys. Learning game, lifting, believing in myself and all that horse shit. It's like you think none of us tried your methods before we took the Black Pill. It doesn't work for us, that's why we're incels. We're the lowest of the low (someone has to be) and the cut off point for inceldom is rising every year. A lot of you will take the Black Pill eventually. You depreciate as you age and as more attractive guys adopt your methods. You think when you hit 45, you'll be somehow satiated and will just contently watch as guys half your age get all the women you want? Good luck with that.
Actanonverba11 6y ago
I almost fell into Black Pill thought, until I started working out and brushing up on my social skills a bit more. I think age also has done a lot to help with that. The results weren't instantaneous, but they showed themselves in due time. In my opinion, most people aren't incels, they are average.
You can never beat Chad in the SMP, but you can still play in the market.
lotteryroll 6y ago
This is all true, but you’re ignoring a really key component. Beyond physical looks, those who have succumbed to black pill thought almost universally have mental issues. That is, they’re either at least borderline autistic or extremely socially anxious. Game is usually not an option. ER was autistic and had messed up racial complexes; not a good combination.
This is just a hunch, but I suspect that the majority of incels went through a TRP phase. Humans are too resilient to just give up immediately after their first encounter with adversity. But either because of their social issues, or because they were just that ugly, nothing worked out and they gave up, becoming bitter and resentful. The sheer number of them shows exactly how constrained modern humans are by our evolutionary past.
I think at the end of the day, we have to understand that TRP works for most people but not for some. Just like sexual selection fucked over countless millions of our forefathers, it is continuing to do so for a sizeable chunk of the modern population. It’s a damn tragedy and I don’t think shaming and telling them their thinking is wrong is going to help.
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redd_reality 6y ago
Don't know if it's in light of the recent terror attack in Toronto by an apperently incel, but I've noticed a lot more malevolent looks from low value men directed at me than ever before.
I'm not some 9 Chad, but I am decent looking, built like a bull reasonably lean.
But I see these looks seemingly everywhere I go. I either get respectful nods from other men, or I get glares from low value punks. Nothing could be more pathetic imo, then seeing a fellow community member and being pissed they've put in more work than you and carry themselves with a healthy amount of self esteem.
I have no respect for losers who remain bitter and stay losers. By God, do something about your state if you're unhappy.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 6y ago
I feel like MGTOW falls under the Black Pill umbrella as well. I shit on MGTOW a lot here and usually get hounded by a ton of replies and inboxes defending MGTOW and shaming anyone who thinks MGTOW sucks.
MGTOW and Incel are pretty much the same thing. Only one celebrates the fact they aren't having sex, while the other one weeps about it. That's pretty much the only difference. In terms of sexual strategy, treat it like a game. We will use baseball as an example. MGTOW's baseball strategy is not to even play. "Pfffff... I could easily make it to the major leagues, and would be an All-Star, but baseball is dumb! So I decided not to play and do other things." That's not a strategy. Incel strategy would be "I would suck at baseball, I am not good at it, I don't have any talent. Fuck my life". Again, not strategy.
TRP on the other hand, the strategy is "Here are the rules of the game and how things work. Now that you know these things, do what you can to become the best you can be at it". Using the baseball analogy, it would be "These are baseball's rules. Here is how you play. Get better so you can make it to the major leagues. Go to the batting cages, play catch, practice. It's a long road, but you will get there if you put in the effort and do things right."
That's why MGTOW and Incel are retarded. They are quitter mentalities. There is no strategy involved. TRP is about sexual strategy. Not playing the game is not a strategy.
Guardian_of_Justice 6y ago
Yeah, but doesn't it suck when you are 10x better at the game than ur friend and have to try a lot harder but still get laid only 2-3 times a year with average chicks? And that attractive rich friend of yours gets laid with the moderately hot of them on a regular basis and thinks that he's better at the game than you just because he got more and better chicks? Isn't it really worth ranting about? Thats what i think most men hate about the game and women.
sadomasochrist 6y ago
MGTOWs are Rollos observation of buffers. Basically "you can't fire me, I quit."
celincelin 6y ago
Just world fallacy, TRP loves it indeed.
The truth is, in addition to the simple fact that you won’t get anywhere if you don’t even try, you also won’t get there if you don’t have talent, be it baseball or anything else worth pursuing.
AuspexAO 6y ago
As I frequently post, the only MGTOW I respect is one that is so focused on bettering themselves that they don't have time for women. If you're a MGTOW Olympic Athlete, I think that's fucking rad. I'm guessing there aren't a hell of a lot of people who go without women because they're some kind of athlete or academic god.
ChewableNazi 6y ago
Nicely put!
AllahHatesFags 6y ago
The way I see it is this:
Fact: 20% of men, the Chads, get 80% of the women.
Blue Pillers deny this fact and believe in a reality that doesn't exist and then end up either not getting laid or getting cucked and divorce-raped.
Red Pillers accept this fact and say "Well, I'm best off being a Chad, TO THE GYM!"
MGTOW accepts this fact and say "These hoes aren't worth the effort it takes to be a top 20% Chad, I'd rather just jerk-off to porn or get a sex bot."
Incels/Black Pillers accept this fact and say "I can never be Chad no matter what I do so why bother trying? Fuck my life, fuck everybody else too!"
Original_Dankster 6y ago
Exactly.
MGTOW stoicly accept self imposed celibacy with a smile.
Incels impotently rage about it.
[deleted] 6y ago
I think you are mischaracterizing Incels a bit here. Incels don't immediately give up, but rather only after dozens of rejections despite the fact that they had done all what society claims will make women attracted to you. They then come to the realization that all of that was bullshit in the first place and the reason for their failures was that they didn't meet the minimum threshold for attractiveness that women require. It is yet to be determined though if they will have success by applying some of the game theory that TRP advocates despite their looks.
[deleted]
Original_Dankster 6y ago
Using another handle, years ago I was a mod on one of the most active MGTOW forums. (I came to TRP and game after being a MGTOW for a few years and got fit and attractive over that time.)
I'd say of the thousand of posters I encountered and hundreds I became familiar with, about 75% were overall pretty happy with their decision to adopt the lifestyle and lived better lives.
The point is, just because you find something important (e.g. sex, women, game) doesn't mean those things are actually important. MGTOW aren't all just sour grapes quitters, rather most just value different things than you do. Just as you can't be shamed for not wanting to take up knitting, they can't be shamed for passing up on game.
And many are far more stoic than you seem to be.
IntrovertedMagma 6y ago
I feel most men who pursue game have nothing going on in their lives other than pussy.. yeah pussy is good but do you want it to be the center of your life??
It is not a healthy way to live. Mgtow offers a solution to make your life more balanced.. I have tried the meaningless sex phase and it made me depressed. I chased pussy just for the sake of pussy and didn't feel anything good after each hookup.
There are far more interesting things in life you can pursue that can actually make you a proud man.
[deleted] 6y ago
I appreciate this comment. I'm lucky enough genetically to look good in my mid forties..... yeah, I'm lifting heavy.... so I have a couple plates... if I was less lucky, MGTOW vs. LTR would be a hard choice. For a lot of guys, that's what it comes down to, in my opinion. Plenty of guys who stand no chance in the casual sex market could still get a girlfriend.
DownvoteToDisagree 6y ago
My understanding is that, for MGTOW, they believe that the juice isn't worth the squeeze. To alter your metaphor a bit, it's probably more like choosing not to play professional football because they feel that the chance of injury is too likely and too devastating to make it a worthy risk.
I think MGTOW overestimate the dangers and suffer a huge opportunity cost by not participating, but it is what it is.
fdsafdasfdsafds 6y ago
Interesting. This is exactly how I feel after 3 years deep into TRP after de-pedestalising chicks and coming to the conclusion they are not the angels I was led to believe they were.. that they can not even offer loyalty or commitment.. and so why would I emotionally invest in them over the long-term?
Seems to me that leads nowhere but perpetual plate-spinning, of which I've become increasingly jaded with. Only option is to just forget about them - which I mostly do now and get on with my own stuff and couldn't be happier.
Dunno. I'm still a little fluid in my position. I guess I'm still feeling them out and determining exactly where they stand in my life given the facts of nature.
As you say:
Of what? Short-term commitment or long-term commitment? What is the opportunity cost? Even if I had 12 supermodels blowing me every day I still wouldn't consider any amount of effort worth it in the end... it's inconsequential pleasure that amounts to nothing.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 6y ago
On paper, that may be what MGTOW is.
But let's be real.
I'd say in reality, MGTOW is closer to guys who would fucking suck ass at football and never in a million years come close to making even a low level college football team let alone the NFL, but claim they are good enough to go pro but won't because of the injuries.
MGTOW is a rejection buffer. Men who are successful with women aren't going to walk away from it all and go MGTOW. MGTOW is simply guys who are lower SMV/lower value who use MGTOW as an excuse to get ahead of it when someone rejects them or asks why they don't have a girlfriend. "Pff... I could totally be having sex with 5 different girls every night, but fuck that! MGTOW!!!" OK.
TRP, MGTOW, Incel have overlap in some of the things they all believe, but "What are you going to do about it", TRP is the only path that has an answer for that.
[deleted] 6y ago
It seems that most of the manosphere groups come to similar conclusions about the nature of women and our society. The difference is what they choose to do with that information.
kevin32 6y ago
I echo DTD's statement. For many MGTOWs, it's more about commitment than just getting laid, otherwise they'd be like the incels complaining that they're not getting any affection at all.
MGTOWs don't want to put forth the effort to find a woman in western society who likely had a promiscuous past, and who would likely divorce-rape them or branch-swing when the next taller, handsome, richer man comes along.
They're seeking long-term committed partners with a low N-count, which is difficult to find when hookup culture is prominent. This also explains to some extent why MGTOWs seek partners in less feminized societies like Asia.
To your credit, I'm sure there are incels who became MGTOWs, but again most of them just want long-term partners who won't easily leave them on a whim.
TRP provides the tools. Choosing not to use those tools in an environment where the risks are too high for what one wants to accomplish is also a strategy.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 6y ago
I agree commitment is the core issue, and finding a woman worthy of your commitment these days is like finding a diamond in the rough. They do exist though if you are willing to be patient. Marriage is another story, but in terms of being a solid FWB/LTR? They exist.
The problem is most men are impatient and/or suck at identifying women worthy of more than being a cum dumpster ONS or plate. It all traces back to scarcity mentality. Most men can't play the field and generate options, so they latch onto the first somewhat decent woman who shows them any sign of interest.
Men owe it to themselves to hold out for someone worthy instead of settling if they want something more long term.
I've done it both ways - I've slayed dozens of pussies via Tinder and cheap hookups, and I've had solid FWB women and a couple of LTRs. The one night stands and cheap hookups get boring after a while since they have no substance to them. The FWB/LTRs are more rewarding, but require far more patience and discipline and many men just aren't willing to do that. Hence why I can see why MGTOW might be attractive to someone who just doesn't want to have to adhere to the strict self discipline it requires to find a quality woman who is worthy of more than plate status.
Diogenes-- 6y ago
I've never made any effort whatsoever to meet women, date women, talk to women, etc. I have average looks, but naturally high T has masculinized me and I'm tall (I was the product of my mother's AF phase), and I've always enjoyed lifting. Because of all this, various women have pursued me aggressively and I've turned some, but not all, of them down. Hardly sounds like a rejection buffer.
I'm MGTOW because to me, TRP is like "OK, here's how you handle nuclear waste." \<1500 page manual, hazmat suit, and it's still dangerous even with all the precautions>
Whereas MGTOW is like, "Why the fuck would you handle nuclear waste?"
Granted I was raised by the most vile, evil feminists you can imagine. My mother extensively molested me when I was a young child, and my grandmother's abuse was much more damaging. So maybe I'm overestimating the danger, but on the other hand, we have federal US laws that punish innocent men (VAWA, Title IX), and I'm sure most of you know the divorce and suicide statistics, so maybe most of you are underestimating the danger.
I'll grant that MGTOW doesn't offer as much of a path forward. One does exist, but it's something most MGTOW wouldn't agree with - the path of the monk. True, voluntary celibacy. Without masturbation, dolls, or even thoughts about sex. It's what I'm pursuing.
And other MGTOW are starting to venture down, if not the monk path, at least some other avenues. Sandman's 'Traveling My Own Way' series, for example. And I've seen a lot of posts lately on MGTOW about things other than women being shit, such as pictures guys have taken while exploring mother nature, pics of their motorcycles and home entertainment systems, conversations about cooking, etc.
With that being said, do your thing. You wanna fuck women, go for it and I wish you well. I hope you break their shriveled black hearts and alpha-widow the hell out of them =) I don't like the animosity between our communities. Feminism is destroying our world because, no matter what a woman does, no other woman will ever criticize her. "Kill all men!", and the women who don't feel that way say nothing. Meanwhile we bicker amongst ourselves and it's why we're losing.
[deleted] 6y ago
Just as long as you don't confuse enlightenment with abstaining from orgasms. It might have some small benefit, but silence, non-dual devotion, and bliss are far more important. I own fleshlights and onaholes, and still walk around in samadhi.
fdsafdasfdsafds 6y ago
This mirrors exactly my own thoughts.
My brother is voluntarily celibate at the minute and is also a virgin. He's dedicated to learning and shaking off the cultural shackles. I can tell he is still BP when it comes to women, but he's definitely come to the realisation that sensual pleasure is not where sustainable satisfaction lies - he's found sustainable satisfaction from meditation.
..and when you come to realise that women don't offer anything to a man who is complete and content, why exactly would you pursue them? To get your rocks off? That gets boring pretty quickly. We already know they are not capable of loyalty or commitment. I just don't see where they fit apart from being the mothers of our children. And that's the biggest challenge for us - we HAVE to choose, from this nuclear waste, who to raise children with or die out within a generation.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 6y ago
Bad analogy. More like, women with red flags are nuclear waste. Makes sense not to touch them.
AWALT. But, if you do things right, take care of yourself and take the right precautions and avoid bad decisions(i.e. marriage), then if you vet women properly you can find women that are worth the risk of fucking/plating/FWB'ing/LTRing.
A better analogy would be that women are a minefield, and TRP gives you the map to navigate the minefield. If you step on a mine and get blown up, its your own fault, because you had the map and instructions on what to do to not get blown up.
But, the answer to your question:
Because men are hardwired to have sexual needs that need to be satisfied, and most of us don't want to relieve those needs with our hand. It's tough to defeat biology.
Mach2Machiavellian 6y ago
Yup. I couldn’t for a second imagine life without sex. And there are lots of amazing (in all respects) women out there among the bad ones.
Life can be downright transcendent when you find someone good.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 6y ago
No doubt. There are amazing women out there, but it also really tests your mettle in terms of adhering to TRP.
It's one thing to have oneitis when you are a chump beta with no TRP knowledge. That's nothing. Try fighting the onset of oneitis when you have waded through tons and tons of shit(i.e. single moms, fatties, tattoo'ed and pierced, daddy issues, mudsharking, attention whoring, and countless other red flags) and actually find a girl who has none of those things and actually seems normal and quality. That's when the true tests of TRP come into play. It tests your mettle, strength and resolve. Because when you finally do find someone quality who isn't just cum dumpster ONS or low level plate material, it's so easy to think to yourself "OK I need to treat this one different" and you have to fight the urge to pedestalize her and become outcome dependent.
AWALT. TRP exists for a reason. But it can be very tempting to deviate from it when you find a quality woman and think to yourself "TRP won't work on this girl, she is too good". Always resist that temptation. But, it won't be easy.
Mach2Machiavellian 6y ago
I get what you’re saying, but there’s a difference between appreciating/loving vs. pedestalizing a woman. The former is recognition of an awesome and mutual thing you’ve got, while still keeping your wits about you enough to not get played in some way. It’s a delicate balance to strike, and essential to it is making sure the woman is at least as into you as you are into her.
Pedestalizing, on the other hand, is falling for a fantasy idea of a woman as pure and incorruptibly good, to a degree where you (a) allow her to take you for granted and (b) blind yourself to potential signs she could betray or hurt you.
You talk about experience – ironically enough, my experience with women all along the good-bad spectrum has allowed me to fine tune my perception of when something is right and, most of all, safe to fully embrace. But it’s been literally decades in the making.
chinese-bible 6y ago
Sounds like you have serious issues stemming from childhood molestation.
You might even be asexual, which is perfectly fine.
Still, Jesus.
Fucking a woman does not require a hazmat suit. Really, it doesn't.
Diogenes-- 6y ago
I definitely have issues due to the abuse, yeah. It's why I never wanted to be near women.
Definitely not asexual. I've been trying nofap for about 5 years now and I'm getting a bit better with it, but even in middle age my libido hasn't dropped a bit. If anything I'm in the best shape of my life currently and the more serious lifting I've been doing lately has raised it.
I didn't mean a literal hazmat suit, although given how over half of some demographics of women have herpes, and how there's a new antibiotic-immune form of gonorrhea out there, it might not be a bad idea lol.
I meant more like all the dangers involved. You spend time and money, you might not get tail. If you do get tail, she might decide that it was rape if you lasted less than a half hour or if your dick's smaller than a baseball bat. Women can never be happy, and more, bigger & better is never good enough for them. And the minute she points her finger, you are fucked. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a thing of the past thanks to #MeToo and Title IX.
Then there's common law marriage, which can be ambiguous (gives judges more power to extract your wealth). In some cases you can be dating a girl for 6-12 months, never marrying, not living together, not sharing finances - and she can still 'divorce' you and take half your shit. I think that just became a thing in Canada, but it's due to feminism which has infected the entire western world so you have to be careful everywhere.
Then there's her 7'5" boyfriends (yes that's plural) who might have just gotten out of jail and are headed over for some tail with 4 guns in their waistband and 3 chips on their shoulder. You don't wanna be there when he arrives, but how can you know?
And so much other bullshit. 6 hours a day of "That bitch I work with said blah blah!" Crying for no reason. Etc. It's like babysitting a 10 year old. Fuck that. Juice ain't worth the squeeze.
chinese-bible 6y ago
In practice this is exceedingly rare. The only realm of possibility where you need to have legit fears is if the woman is a mortal enemy (then why fuck her?) or you're very outwardly wealthy, or a celebrity.
I think there was a huge dose of skepticism when the "Aziz" story broke and most people thought that was ridiculous. Also, the only reason it happened was because he was a celebrity (lady was deluded) and the only consequence affected his celebrity (his TV show might have more trouble now? Maybe?).
To never have sex again due to fear of rape charges is laughable. It's also sad; it's letting the feminists win.
This never happened, ever. The common law marriage requires something like 5+ years and living together, and even that without that certificate, it's a toughie. And fucking a woman =/= living together.
Dude you're certifiably insane. Yeah and what if a time machine sends a T-rex outside in your backyard one day? I suppose you should never leave the house? These are crackpot theories ...
Look human relationships are messy but it's quite easy to drop a few loads and just walk away. None of the last 6 girls I've fucked said anything about any "bitch" at work ... nor did any cry. A lot of that depends on you. Some guys fall into the role of babysitter. Others? They do their thing, if you want to come along girl, you follow me, let me dump loads in you until I get bored ...
I think you're coming up with too many stereotypes ....
Diogenes-- 6y ago
I hear you, and you're probably right. But for me, all those things are tertiary reasons to avoid them. The primary one is the severity of the sexual abuse. I've never felt remotely comfortable near women. If I could choose to be gay I probably would. The secondary one is that I have (professionally diagnosed) asperger's, meaning my ability to read people is poor. So it makes sense for me to highlight the risks in my mind, since I'm more at risk of them.
Feel free to disagree with this, I'm not trying to preach or saying this is the case for everyone - but I truly believe all the religions saying for thousands of years that true celibacy = godhood are right. I'd rather have that than climb the mountains that exist between women and me, given my unique circumstances. It's been nearly 20 years and I'm happier than I've ever been in my life, if I never fuck another woman it doesn't bother me. And I like doing my small part to ensure they end up drunk and on prozac / xanax just like my bitch mother, and smothering their cats. To hell with them all. Every time one of them tries to get my attention when I'm in town, I completely ignore them and fantasize about them going home and crying about their lightspeed impact with the wall - and in a liberal area like mine, it is indeed lightspeed, and usually by 25 at the latest lol. It's like every mile of dick ages them an extra year. Ignoring them makes me happier than sex would.
Edit: Btw, bit off-topic - autism spectrum stuff is quite obviously the result of infant neglect. This sub is well aware of womens' decreased ability to pair bond as their notch count goes up. I think it's their ability to bond with anyone, at all, which disappears - not just their ability to bond with future sexual partners. So they can't bond with their own children, and neglect them to go out and get more dick. Little surprise autism has gone up right along with the sexual revolution and women having such high notch counts.
purplecabbage 6y ago
Interesting last paragraph there. Never heard that as a theory posited before. I read all your comments here; sorry you had to endure all that. Choose what makes you happy.
0mnipath 6y ago
I share your views on MGTOW and the monk path. Meditation, pursuit of knowledge and virtues can be completely life encompassing for me in a way just "getting chicks" can never be. I realized that what I usually want from relationships with women is practically base and selfish - I want to receive care and physical affection while not having to contend with their priorities because they seem completely inane to me. I realized that this model is simply not sustainable. I don't want to be tricking anybody, using them or convincing them to give me what I want just because I want it. I want to be engaging in genuine relationships, where people participate and collaborate out of their own volition.
Maybe I just haven't met the right woman, maybe I haven't developed myself into a good man, maybe I'm too idealistic. I stay open minded and friendly towards all new people in my life until they convince me to not want to interact with them. But I am not going to adjust my whole view and priorities, literally WORK on trying to get some tail or to convince some girl to put out. To me it's a waste of time, the return on investment is simply not worth the effort for me. Especially while there are so many other things that need to be taken care of, demand my attention, focus and time.
I also don't understand the end game of TRP. Even the chaddiest of chads report the impossibility of holding frame indefinitely. It's a losing game so whatever tools TRP gives can only provide temporary and sporadic success. Once again, that's not sustainable.
I understand there are way too many circumstances/factors even on individual level to ever develop a decisive set of tenets in MGTOW but I think the unifying theme of simply not wanting to deal with nuclear waste is the universality that brought the movement into existence. Even if a woman comes to you completely out of her own will and serves herself on a platter, you know there will be a hefty price to pay one way or another - a harmonious outcome of relationships with women has simply become incredibly rare. Something will need to drastically change in society or soon women will be out of favour to a point of crisis. I guess it will happen eventually one way or another, the system will self correct. It just might take a long time.
AuspexAO 6y ago
The question I have for you, and this is not a mockery but a question in good faith: If you want care and physical affection from women and decide against it, how is that philosophy serving you? I understand how you are serving society and serving women. But how is that helping you?
I'm not advocating total selfishness as a principle, but if the one thing you want is what you are 100% not getting, then that's not even a compromise, it's just denial.
I'm not feeding women a lot of free meals and drinks, or doing a lot of shit for them like I used to naively do. However, I'm providing what they want too: Sex, companionship, and fun! Sure, that's not 100% of what they want and I sometimes have to deal with their life so it's not 100% of what I want, but it's better than 0% of what I want.
I guess I don't get the "all or nothing" of MGTOW. Sure, I break frame at times, and I'm not some kind of robot that can't feel the pull of oneitis after an exceptional night with a woman. Perfection has never been the goal. The goal is to be human.
0mnipath 6y ago
I didn't decide against it. I'm all for giving to another person, I don't have anything against that. Women simply weren't interested in what I had to offer or they didn't reciprocate in any way. So it's not denial, I just gave up on expending my energy on a fruitless activity.
AuspexAO 6y ago
Fair enough. I thought it was purely in the interest of altruism. I just wanted to thoroughly dispel the myth that just wanting to fuck is somehow taking advantage of a woman. It's only that if you do BP shit like promise her things and claim to love her. Otherwise, it's just two people getting down.
chinese-bible 6y ago
You guys overcomplicate matters. Probably watching too much Disney or some chick "hurt you."
Think of fucking a woman like eating a cheesburger.
You like eating cheesburgers, right?
Fuck a chick here, fuck a chick there, bust a few nuts ... say you're not looking for anything long term ... what's the problem?
Cheeseburgers have a cholesterol risk, sure. Be safe, know the stats, eat up!
fdsafdasfdsafds 6y ago
We're not talking about vapidly fucking every piece of ass that enters your target. We get it. Fucking women is EASY when you know how. There are plenty to go around. Christ, I'm 5'8 and bald and have enough attractive women to last me a lifetime. Fucking them is not the problem.
We're talking about the end-game.. unless you plan to perpetually plate-spin into your grave? Dunno. I got bored of plate-spinning after the first 2 years of indulgence.
0mnipath 6y ago
I don't get the analogy. The amount of effort going into getting to eat a cheeseburger is nothing compared to getting a chick to fuck you. I don't have to qualify myself to a cheeseburger, don't have to arrange anything at all really in order to get one, etc. Or are you literally talking about prostitution?
[deleted] 6y ago
He probably follows rules 1 and 2.
Freedom2speech 6y ago
The end game of TRP (for me) is marriage. Hopefully with somebody you love and can raise a family with. TRP ideally having given you the tools to choose from lots of different options. In my case it worked out, 15 years married.
As you get older and have spent years with a woman the looks stuff just isn’t as important ... especially if she is the mother of your children.
I mean it matters in terms of present ability but reality check, nobody is gonna have 20 year old looks at 50.
Mach2Machiavellian 6y ago
Congrats on your successful, long, and ongoing marriage. That may be the end goal for you with TRP, while for others it may be remaining single but with a series of female lovers/companions, and for others still it may be some kind of non-monogamous long-term thing with a primary partner.
In any case, the end goal with TRP is most assuredly not bitter loneliness and unresolved hatred for women.
Freedom2speech 6y ago
Just reading through the site and acronyms. Perhaps for those who eschew marriage the goal is stable RMV.
And yes totally agree bitter loneliness isn’t a very good goal to strive for lol.
I’m somewhat older (in my 40s). I’ve read abit about TRP theory ... we didn’t really have that back in the day, or at least it wasn’t evolved theory like it is now. I mean we had “players” but those were guys with natural ability, instinctively knew what TRP teaches. In my case I was definitely average, but I had some instinctual understanding of hypergamy (although back then I didn’t know what it was, looking back I did understand it subconsciously if that makes any sense).
Around 24 I knew my SMV was going to be taking a dive in part due to genetics so I locked in an intelligent hottie 6 years younger than me. Back then online dating was barely a thing I pioneered the art of word seduction over the keyboard. My mantra was if they think they love you before you’ve met they will lower their standards for what they want to be true. It worked really really well in a day and age where online dating didn’t involve pictures and half the time was via ICQ or IRC chats.
Marriage was important to me though for both religious and societal reasons, and that hasn’t changed — I’m happy with how things turned out but I wonder if my stances on marriage are old school. Regardless I couldn’t imagine living life alone, family to me is what makes it all worth it.
fdsafdasfdsafds 6y ago
This is inspiring to read.
I'm only 3 years into TRP at 30 and am completely jaded with casual, short-term encounters, and can only see keeping a woman around to raise children with. Yet at the same time it seems to become increasingly difficult to find a woman capable of that kind of commitment. I mean.. I'm in Thailand. Even here Tinder and online dating have destroyed pair-bonding.
Met a 23 year old virgin I've been seeing for 6 months, good family, respects her mother and father. Sends me loves letters, has fallen hard.. and is constantly talking to other guys online, fishing for an upgrade. How are we supposed to commit? She's probably the most well-behaved of that generation.. and still not worthy of commitment.
This does make wonder if we'd be in this mess if it remained that way. Would require both sides to put more effort into each other.
Freedom2speech 6y ago
Here’s the key ... go onto irc boards shit like that. No pics nothing but your strength of spirit. The key is to get the interest before they’ve actually seen you. Assuming you are average looking, women will make a lot of allowances if they are already attracted to your personality.
fdsafdasfdsafds 6y ago
I wish we would talk more about the end-game. Seems majority here consist of younger fellas just finding their feet and indulging. I started late at 27, but have already become incredibly bored with women and I'm only 30.
My end-goal could be children as I don't value women as any other position, but I just cannot see how the risk is worth it.
[deleted] 6y ago
You're right, the end game is important. I'm too old for kids, don't want them anyway. That's why I feel spinning plates is quite moral.... in all, I've monopolized 18 years of women's 20's, spread over three women. Enough. Fuck me while hunting for your beta.
Let me say that the myth of the lonely old man is nothing but a shaming tactic. Loneliness is a terrible problem but it's also self inflicted. Join groups, go to events, bars, etc. There's no real reason to be lonely.
People laugh at me when I say it, but I'm quite serious and will pull it off.... I'm going to enjoy the rest of my forties and all of my fifties working, adventuring, and spinning plates. Then I'm going to find a well preserved, preferably rich widow with a large family for an OLTR and family experience.
fdsafdasfdsafds 6y ago
Ha! Exactly the attitude I've introduced to most women.
I agree. I've read up on a lot of J Krishnamurti and I've come to peace with being alone. I've spent 90% of the last 6 months alone in my condo working on my own projects I've never felt more liberated. I'm using the opportunity to learn about loneliness, I'm not just going to run away from it my whole life, whether into other people or work itself.
Sounds pretty sweet, to be fair. I might follow a very similar road. I've just hit 30 and have vast majority of my free time to travel on my laptop and build a software business. I imagine I'll be tied up for the next decade, anyway, so I'm not looking to settle down any time soon.
Your_Coke_Dealer 6y ago
Concept versus reality.
MGTOW is, in concept, athletes who reject playing the game anymore because they seek to avoid further injury and would rather go on to get business degrees or something.
In reality, it’s gonna include a lot of fat fucks who say “I would be playing football and used to be good back in the day, but I don’t want to get another knock to the head”.
Tl;dr: MGTOW is supposed to be voluntary celibacy for self improvement, but it’s really incels
derkoff 6y ago
Pretty easy to say the same about TRP.
In reality, TRP is just a bunch of fat keyboard warrior autists theorycrafting rules for getting laid.
We're talking about the concepts because we already know 80% of men are garbage regardless of the concept they choose to support.
Sideshow27 6y ago
I think a lot of MGTOW guys will evolve into incels or vice versa. A lot of incels I’ve encountered don’t even care about not being able to get laid anymore, many are past that point now.
Original_Dankster 6y ago
A lot of TRP men eventually evolve into MGTOW, particularly when they hit middle age.
A few MGTOW migrate to TRP and start spinning plates (myself included)
Some Incels become MGTOW (and are much better off for it psychologically).
In a about two years active in the MGTOW forums I have never encountered a single MGTOW who later started identifying with the incel community...
alexclarkbarry 6y ago
At first I never understood MGTOW till I watched DragonBallZ. Say what you will about anime shows but Vegeta is MGTOW, the path of the lone warrior. He only cares about his mission, increasing his power.
CopperFox3c 6y ago
What is really ironic about all the criticism of TRP is that we are the only ones offering real solutions to these men. Feminism offers them nothing. Our feminist-laden society is just taking these angry and hopeless men and turning them into ticking time bombs.
Of course, many of those dudes don't take the advice TRP provides, or lack the fortitude to see it through, but the path beyond is clearly laid out here.
[deleted]
[deleted] 6y ago
https://youtu.be/LGuml-tc75A?t=26s
SeaRepeat 6y ago
Question though, if we are not talking about getting laid but about marriage/ LTR more specifically marriage don't you guys agree that Black Pill theory is more accurate ... obviously for having fun spinning plate nothing better than TRP but by the admission of people like Roosh you can't control all the variables that trigger women behavior till the day you die and even if you can is it worth the effort?
drty_pr 6y ago
If a dude comes here, picks up the tools provided and decides (while not promoted) to find a girl and get married. If he does so with the knowledge of RedPill and goes into this relationship with the best understanding of gender dynamic, thats a success.
BluePull just tells men to go all in on feelz and BlackPill just tells men you are guaranteed getting fucked. RedPill gives actionable advice.
Nobody sees that though
andreas-mgtow 6y ago
I initially came here because of the Red Pill. It opened my eyes to Male-Female sexual dynamics and to hypergamy.
It described the world as it was right in front of my eyes, filled with all the BP lies Men are made to swallow.
It gave me the facts to understand that as a Man, there is more to life than defining success as getting married and having conditional access to the same aging pussy for the rest of my life, while being in a position of weakness as far the as the legal system goes, if I ever got divorced by Mrs. Unicorn Perfect.
LTRs, cohabitation and marriage are shit deals. Yes, this knowledge also makes you better at hooking up, getting sex more easily and handling women in other situations, but it also slowly kills you a little inside. I can't blame the BlackPillers for that.
drty_pr 6y ago
I know if I entered my marriage with the understanding of women that I have now, one of two things would have happened. I would have never allowed my attraction to diminish in her eyes or I would have never married her. I can 99.9% guarantee this.
Best I can do now is repair the broken, which has been easier said than done, while living a much happier life simply due to my proper understanding of masculinity/femininity. Or leave and start fresh; which I'm not willing to do until my children move out.
Possibly a flawed logic, but it's my prerogative and I'm not changing it.
andreas-mgtow 6y ago
Of course! Given the choice of being married and being a BP chump or being married and being RP aware, the choice is clear.
Can't fault anyone for using RP knowledge to improve the circumstances of their marriage, and being a father to his children.
TheRealJesusChristus 6y ago
Im here bc I saw through it. I was a bluepill. Then I stumbled upon blackpill videos on youtube. What they say seems about right. Now I had two choices: accept that as the truth and accept to never get girls, or saying „fuck it, I have see uglyass guys with no money, no status, getting a girl. To be more specific: my dad. He is a small latino, with really much indigen blood. He doesnt look good. He is about 5‘3 maybe 5‘4 (I dont know how to eyeball inches as Im european. But I know Im 5‘11, so I eyeball it through that. For europeans Im about 1.80m and my dad about 1.55-1.60m). He didnt even speak german as he came to germany. My mom isnt badlooking (I cant really tell as shes my mom and not exceptionally hot like a 10/10. but she gets a lot of attention). And still I was born. How? Because TBlackP is wrong. As I said I was bluepilled (my mom divorced my dad, it was not a divorcerape, as I said he didnt have and still has no money, status or anything. So he didnt have much of an influence on me). But I somehow figured out that blupill is wrong too. So I got onto the search and trp is the next best thing to the truth. It combines the right stuff from the black pill (looks matter, chads get chicks, if you aint chad, good bye) with the right stuff from PUA (who are blue pilled) (game works) and with a bit of bluepill truth as well (game is not all what works, girls do what they think they should do and arent robots, maybe thats all but at least theres something lol). So in the end its not 100% accurate, every dude has to figure out what works for him. But its the only Pill that doesnt promise to be 100% accurate and which doesnt promise a step by step guide into how to be successfull (or in black pilles case, step1: you wont be successfull, the end).
So Im now working out, many people already commented on how I look fit, good, hot, etc... i notice girls looking my direction with a gaze of approvement instead of ignoring me in the best case or being disgusted in he worst case (actually did happen to me. Not nice, wont tell the story). I start to get laid and it seems as if every post I read here makes it simpler, gives me better understanding of why, and all in all its just great. As I said you have to test yourself out. You cant expect someone doing the work for you. You are the man in your life, you do the important work in it.
At least Im not too short in size, Im not 6‘+ but Im close enough that nobody notices the difference. Its just a number after all. Luckily my mom is tall lol.
[deleted]
james_the_dean 6y ago
Well some do, that's why we are here :)
Unrealenting 6y ago
They should be celebrating. TRP trains men to become the kind of Man women are sexually attracted to. I don't understand why anyone would be AGAINST TRP unless they are simply unhappy with what Women themselves respond favorably to, which, when taken to its logical conclusion, is a scathing exposition of Women's nature, NOT Men's. Attacking TRP would be equivalent to shooting themselves in the foot with a gun they loaded. I'm confident they'll realize this soon enough and back off.
ApexmanRP 6y ago
"is a scathing exposition of Women's nature"
This is why society (feminism) hates TRP, because it exposes women's nature. They don't give a fuck about improving men, only that the precious women don't look bad.
Diarrhea_Van_Frank 6y ago
Because it takes a portion of power away from the selectors. Nobody wants to see how hard you worked to get where you are. Everyone wants to believe you’re just a natural. It makes you more attractive to women, and men don’t feel insecure about the fact that they’re not working hard enough to achieve the results they want. Law 30: Make your accomplishments seem effortless.
TonyZ554 6y ago
They also want to believe you’re just a natural so they have something else to blame other than themselves.
[deleted] 6y ago
"Women don't care about the struggle, they hang out at the finish line and fuck the winners."
Unrealenting 6y ago
Good point. Women are attracted to the unattainable masculine ideal, not the man himself. The moment the veil is removed they'll lost interest. But, at the same time, I think women will be so happy to have decisive men that take charge that they won't even question it and no man who actually uses this material would advertise it. I kind of see it the same way TRP has pulled the veil on the inner mechanics of female attraction all the way down to the subconscious level, sure I was a little taken aback at first, but it's not like a beautiful woman doesn't still have the same effect on me or anyone else here.
Entropy-7 6y ago
I arrived at TRP as a 40-ish man with perhaps too much experience with women.
The thing is THIS: TRP is in accord with my 30+ year of experience of dealing with women. The teenager and 20 something and 30 somthings who are coming here have what I never had and I had to learn by trial and error.
[deleted] 6y ago
Same here. I let slip that I spend time here and was told I'm brainwashed, blah blah. I have over 20 years of LTR's under my belt, and TRP made so much sense in light pix them.
Entropy-7 6y ago
LOL. . first rule of fight club, eh?
TRP didn't "brainwash" me. . .life did. so to speak.
[deleted] 6y ago
Yep. Lost a meat space friend because I held that women can't sexually assault men, exactly because a threat of physical force is part of the definition of sexual assault.... the dude was a combat marine I respected a lot, he just flipped out and called me a red piller who needed deprogramming. Couldn't even tell him that my opinion isn't too popular here, either.
Entropy-7 6y ago
I am ex-combat engineer. However I am also a law school grad. The first week of my first year that issue came up in some class discussion and I said something like "Some women are rather large". The feminists and manginas hated me for the next three years.
Da_llluminati 6y ago
ehehehehehehehheheheehheheeheh
I_HATE_GOLD_ 6y ago
Seriously. What a bunch of self deprecating individuals. Stop being such whiny pussy ass bitches. Go to the gym, learn a thing or two about style, learn how to not be socially awkward, set personal and career goals and stop at nothing to achieve them. It’s really fucking simple. Get off your ass black and blue pillers, stop playing video games and jerking it to pornhub so much. I promise anyone one of those individuals if they use the tools provided here, stop making excuses for themselves, they will definitely reap the rewards.
Casd12 6y ago
I dont get why men follow feminists' advice. I mean the whole term of a feminist is:a person who supports feminism, aka supporting women. The whole movement isnt there to support men, its there to support women. Asking feminists what men should do is like asking a whale how to walk.
HumanSockPuppet 6y ago
I don't think it's ironic at all.
I think to a certain degree, it's deliberate.
On the small scale, individual women benefit from having a society of tame, obedient men. It means they can easily extract provisioning from those weak obedient men, and they can extract sexual satisfaction from the few dominant outlier men without fear of judgment or social repercussion. This we all know.
But on the large scale, the ruling class also benefits from feminism steamrolling over men. For every Elliott Rodger who shoots up his school, the ruling class has yet another justification for eroding individual rights and imposing systems of control disguised as systems of safety. The less masculine men are, the less confrontational they become, and the more they allow themselves and their society to be controlled by the privileged few.
Mind you, there's no coordinated conspiracy at the heart of this. This is simply the result of numerous, disparate individuals reading the social terrain and acting in their perceived interests. Women and politicians do whatever advances their agendas, however simplistic, animalistic, or widely ambitious those agendas might be.
The Red Pill is a reasoned, calculated antithesis to those agendas. The one thing that feminists and politicians have definitively in common is that they depend upon the capitulation of men in order to achieve their goals. We teach men how to identify when someone is attempting to manipulate them, and how to counter it.
Hihachisu 6y ago
Adaptation, not antithesis. There is a reason NRx and others on the political Right denounce men who follow TRP strategy as hedonists and part of the problem. TRP provides a proven, effective strategy for improving SMV, which inadvertently helps advance the feminist dream of Sexy (high SMV) Son mate selection indicative of unrestrained hypergamy. The collective hamster fails to realize this and gets outraged because hamster logic dictates that once SMV judgement has been passed on the bottom 80%, no man judged thus has the right to change it and to which TRP rightly calls "Bullshit!"
One need only look to the pages of history to see the most effective antithesis to the female imperative: Männerbund, male solidarity and the unwritten covenant that birthed the beta provider, making civilization beyond a certain level possible; for more just read the works of Daniel Amneus, who is sometimes referenced on TRP when the subject of feminism and social breakdown is brought up.
The incel was historically led to water and physically forced to either drink, die, or surrender his manhood. This brings up another issue, which is the diminishing of socially contributory roles and places that historically belonged to celibate men, voluntary and involuntary. Celibate men who became so voluntarily, involuntarily or by the literal dismantling of their manhood could find their own place in the Männerbund as priests, monks, court eunuchs (or similar servitude roles for castrated men), and scholars. TRP is definitely the preferred approach to the incel problem, but it's not the only one. Defending and promoting male-only places where the celibate who have accepted their status can find their own self-worth and be contributing members of society is another. Bros before hoes. When men become divided against each other, the female imperative wins.
Snazzy_Serval 6y ago
Is it actually possible to go from invisible incel to a man who is actively getting laid? Examples seem to be pretty rare. I wonder if most guys just give up.
greenlittleman 6y ago
Mm, yes. This reddit is full of such stories. In most cases it would be enough to lift for 1-2 years and to hold right frame. If you start to go in night clubs/bars and do cold approach then you'll get laid even more. Most guys who don't get laid at all just do nothing about it. No matter how good you are you wouldn't get any girls if you don't talk to them, lol. Often all you need is to start talking to new girls.
Sumsar01 6y ago
It's going to happen to my training partner. He is a bit fat and autistic. So he's not very good at talking to girls. Wear glasses dress like a retard.
But he is 6'2". Has genetics like a gorilla (25 FFMI after one year of training) and he is starting to get a bit confidence. When he lose a bit more fat and dress better he will soon start turning heads. Guys already call him a monster.
Most people are not even close to utilizing their genetic potential in any way.
zyzzguido55 6y ago
Yes dude. I've been there. Was ridiculously skinny in high school with a huge nose, worked my ASS off to get muscular, put myself out there, yes, eventually I became better looking because my face grew in, but I was the definition of incel in high school. Look at zyzz. Another perfect example
Snazzy_Serval 6y ago
Cool, thanks for the story.
Though I wouldn't call somebody an incel until they are 25+. Many many guys graduated HS a virgin.
ozenmacher 6y ago
I like to say yes, because I was an incel for my basically my entire adult life until the last two. Got fit, started climbing mountains, stopped giving a fuck, learned how to dress properly, learned how to flirt, started eating right, etc. Yeah, I am short and probably a 6 on a lucky day, but I am also a leader, and thanks to TRP, I have unbreakable frame (after learning the hard way...a lot). It is amazing how women flock to that (because confidence, which is rooted in reality, is sexy).
AuspexAO 6y ago
Fuck yeah man. Mountain climbing is a great physical hobby to have, too. So many women at my gym climb and are always looking for a partner and they always want a guy too...I wonder why ;). I'm not getting on a mountain for love or money, so I should shoot you some referrals, ha ha.
CopperFox3c 6y ago
I do well with women, but I am never going to be Brad Pitt. So should I give up too?
If the only acceptable end goal is perfection and getting everything you want, then you are going to be consistently disappointed in life. However, if the end goal is simply to be better each day than you were the day before, then the world is a place of endless opportunities.
Be the victim, or rise above, those are your two choices.
AuspexAO 6y ago
What you are saying is exactly how I view myself. I will NEVER be perfect. I'm not going to be 20 again, or have a billion dollars to be able to have fifty coeds on a yacht party. The idea that I need perfection to have sexual encounters with members of the opposite sex is just as dangerous of a fantasy as believing that "the one" who understands my every thought and desire will be delivered to me via a "meet cute" like in every romcom.
You don't need to be perfect to stop being trash. I started getting, "Wow. You're looking really good!" when I hit 270 fucking pounds! 270 is fatter than some of you guys will ever be. By the time I hit 230 with some nice forearms that looked more like dad arms than a body-builders I was getting IOI from random women. Now I do fine. I'm not spinning ten plates or fucking rooms full of supermodels, but I'm no longer that fat incel who took a pill one lonely night and was forced to accept that I was the problem. That the world wasn't going to serve me happiness on a platter because I was good and followed all the rules.
They think working out and improving our bodies, minds, and social skills is "snake oil?" I could fucking guarantee results. Ship me a fat nerd like I was and I will get him laid. Not by Jennifer Lawrence, not in two days or even a years, but it will happen.
Black Pill my ass.
H4RV3YSP3CT3R 6y ago
Fun fact that relates to this post.
Brad Pitt actually couldn't score any dates until he was further into his Hollywood career.
Google it
CryostaticLT 6y ago
The word fear has probably the best explanation there is of the two choices. Its either Forget Everything And Run, or Face Everything And Rise.
Snazzy_Serval 6y ago
Wow that's a major jump from actively getting laid to Brad Pitt/perfection. How did you think I meant anything other than doing well with women?
To put it another way, is it possible to go from a man who never gets laid, to getting laid at least once a month? That's far from perfection, but it's still a huge change from incel.
SitDownandPee 6y ago
Pay attention to this response. I love this place, and believe the ECs deserve their respect. But I feel they have moved away from delivering and savoring red pill truths and being honest, in favor of pushing the value of this place. He even shamed you as you noticed. You were foolishly seeking perfection simply by asking the question. I'm itchy at how close that was to a feminine answer.
The options were,
"No, incel men aren't needed in the SMV and thus should find value elsewhere."
"Yes, if they work hard enough to cultivate value and some basic looks, they will be able to play in the SMV and possibly have some hook-ups, while still being used in LTRs."
Why would that have been so hard? We seem to be hiding from the incels around here. It used to be every other post was some wuss arguing that marriage was worthy of our efforts, and could still be obtained. No one held back from discussing reality with these men.
But for some reason when someone asks to be told the truth about incels, it becomes a chance to push the TRP and sell "lifting, a focus on career, and to stop whining." Its all very much a side step with a little shaming for flavor.
Cheeseking11 6y ago
Yes absolutely but it takes work and effort.
[deleted] 6y ago
In theory, the answer to your question is a simple and resounding 'yes'. In practice, it is far more complicated and it depends on the person. If you have a 'growth' mindset in this life, then you my friend are going to do well with women, career, family etc etc. If not, you're in for a wild wild, disappointing gut wrenching reality check.
Zahlix 6y ago
Kind of depends on the type of incel imo.
I think there are two kinds of incels out there:
1) those who are serious victims of fate (birth defects, bad diseases, horrible accidents etc). we have to acknowledge that there are people out there who literally are INVOLUNTARILY celibate
2) those who have a less than ideal starting position (extremely short, below average looks, overweight, balding, poor) in the SMP but are unable to see past their disadvantages and just give up
Group 1 seriously needs the incel space to vent and as a shared support system to exchange ideas. Procreation is of existential importance for men and women, being unable to fulfill that desire can have serious mental implications and those people need help and support to be able to deal with their circumstances.
Group 2 needs a serious kick in the ass to start working on themselves. Simply giving up isn't an option if you want to lead a rich and fulfilling life. We've all seen this guy posted as the epitome of inceldom. I saw multiple photoshops of him over the past year or so. Some people grew out the hair and made him smile. Others gave him a little tan and a stubble.
Just imagine what he could look like if he
The only 2 hard things in that list are literally eating right and working out. He would look better than the majority of idiots running around in the streets. He could gain 20 lbs of muscle and change his entire life in a year if he wanted to.
IMO he has all the potential in the world. Those are the kind of people that TRP wants to reach and those are the kind of people that can benefit from the tools laid out in this community.
Yes, I think that he would be able to get laid once a month (provided he is willing to sprinkle some game into his physical improvements)
lord-denning 6y ago
The group 2 example you posted could definitely get laid. Because they haven’t swallowed the red pill fully, many men vastly underestimate what it takes in terms of basics (as you noted), attitude/confidence, and game in order to be successful until it actually starts happening to them. So, to those that are wondering, start on the path now. The time will pass anyway. What do you have to lose?
no_its_a_subaru 6y ago
It blows my mind how people don’t realize this about themselves. Just the smile made him go from miserable looser to average joe. Guess what, if you look like just existing is torture for you no one will want to be around you or your negative bullshit.
Snazzy_Serval 6y ago
That guy looks like some kind of fish creature. The photo-shopping looks much better, but it shows that he's not helpless.
When I think of incel I really only think of guys in group 2. People that should have a chance but for whatever reason(s) something has gone wrong and they aren't able to make a sexual connection with women. The idea is that game and dedication to a lifestyle change can get those men to be seen as sexual beings by women.
Getting a better body is a key part in that, but the other major factor is game, how he communicates with women and presents himself.
vandaalen 6y ago
http://www.be-a-woman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Mindie-Kniss-and-Sean-Stephenson.jpg
The dude on the left is married to the woman on the right.
I rest my case.
Snazzy_Serval 6y ago
Examples like that aren't realistic. For one, few people are that poor off, and also some women have a fetish for severe disabilities.
vandaalen 6y ago
Who started the horseshit?
Doulich 6y ago
http://a.trp.red/m
Godskook 6y ago
You have exactly two options:
Be pathetic and give up now
Like....really, the three main tenants of TRP are:
A. Have Strong frame
B. Take care of your body
C. Be fun to be around
Whine all you want about it, but I guarantee you, if you make solid gains in those three areas, you'll be happier with your life, regardless of how much you got laid. Even better, you'll probably get laid.
Who cares what "most guys" do? If we want to be good at basketball, we look at Michael Jordan, not Joe Schmoe. If we want to be good at League of Legends, we look at Faker. If we want to be good at golf, we look at Tiger Woods. If we want to be good at physics, Albert Einstein.
Stop caring about people who are failures, and improve yourself after people who are successful.
RadThaddeus 6y ago
Exactly. But worth mentioning: When men give up, they usually go blue pill
Snazzy_Serval 6y ago
B is by far the easiest to accomplish. All it takes is discipline.
A and C, that's when things get difficult. Honestly I've been reading TRP for a long time, and this is the first thing I've seen somebody mention , "Be fun to be around" of course it makes perfect sense.
Getting back to A and C. If somebody is an incel, and I'm using the bare-bones definition of "involuntarily celibate" odds are they have a very weak frame. Like wise if they aren't getting laid, they are probably depressed and not much fun to be around. Stuck in a loop.
That's exactly it. I don't care about the failures. That's why I asked about the guys who succeeded. I want to see how it was done. If no Joe Schmoe was able to go from getting none to getting some, then that's worrying.
Flintblood 6y ago
Exactly. I think this post mischaracterizes ‘black pill’ as incels when they are more likely MGTOW who made a calculated decision based on costs vs benefits for their specific cases and then decided not to play the game.
thisishowiwrite 6y ago
Except MGTOW advocates self-impovement. Incels advocate giving up.
Original_Dankster 6y ago
Most Incels are nihilists, most MGTOW are ambivalent optimists... Stoics if you will.
Godskook 6y ago
http://archive.is/Nvm5N
http://archive.li/I1ZYF
http://archive.li/H172F
In this thread:
http://archive.li/g0Ctz
You're back to caring about failures, or you wouldn't be asking this question. People are obviously still getting laid. Still getting married, still having success. But you've flipped a term I was using to describe failures(Joe Schmoe) to being a term you're now using to describe a group that contains both successful and non-successful people. It's a semantic 'trick' that you probably didn't realize you did, but based on the context I established, you're essentially asking me the non-sensical: 'If no failures were able to go from getting none to getting some, then that's worrying.". But no, it's not because it's a tautology in my context.
Let's re-phrase in a more useful way: "If nobody who uses the techniques of the pros are able to go from getting none to getting some, then that's worrying". And well, that's obviously not true, because the pros used those techniques, and went from getting none to getting some. And you're dismissing them as not being "Joe Schmoe"-enough of people to work for you.
The point that TRP is trying to get you to swallow, in part, is that a LARGE part of your success in the sexual marketplace is actionable, and your sole responsibility. When you disassociate yourself from successful strategies with phrases like that I quoted, as if "Joe Schmoe" implementing those strategies successfully is somehow different than Faker or Jordan implementing the same strategies, you're inherently rejecting the The Red Pill. You're not trying to be #1 worldwide, you just need a more...average level of success, and one that's less common today than it should be.
TheRedPike Senior Endorsed 6y ago
Lovely comment. Don't hotlink any sub including ours. Use archive.is please.
Godskook 6y ago
Yeah, I don't post here often, figured in-sub links would be cool. Figured wrong. I'll grab archive links next time.
TheRedPike Senior Endorsed 6y ago
We get too many unfortunate visitors that try to use it against all of us. I'll go ahead and approve it (before just reacting to the reports).
Godskook 6y ago
Well that's bunk. You guys get too many RP-Ragers here for that to be a useful endeavor.
1337Mcburnie 6y ago
Not true, the black pill offers solutions as well. Improving yourself to the best of your abilities.
[deleted] 6y ago
That's Red Pill thinking. The Black Pill is more the idea that you're dealt your hand at birth, it's just genetic luck or misfortune that dictates the direction of your life, specifically sexual success or failure.
Entropy-7 6y ago
I really don't get so-called "black pillers".
Just how bad is the reality you live in?
Life is a gift and I enjoy every day.
If you feel unloved then look in the fucking mirror.
tempolaca 6y ago
It can be pretty bad. I remember being 18, and can't believe how everybody was having a girlfriend while I was an incel.
Now I can see incredibly clearly that I was poor nerd, didn't had a car, and over all things, was a skinny fat 5'5 shortie. All odds were against me. (I managed to fuck a couple of girls before 19 though).
Entropy-7 6y ago
The average age to lose it is 16 or 17, so by 18 you are really not that far behind the curve. I didn't get laid until 18.
[deleted] 6y ago
Life being a gift is one of my bridges. I'm spending a lot of time with dad, taking a class with him on horseback riding (he's seasoned, I'm green) to get ready for trail rides this summer. He's a conservative Christian, I'm a plate spinning heathen, and much of our adult connection is based on both of us loving life..... and feeling a moral obligation to being strong men. He's guided by faith, I'm guided by SMV, and the difference hardly matters.
Entropy-7 6y ago
Enjoy it, mate. My father got struck down by brain cancer just a couple of months into retirement.
Redpillandrew 6y ago
I fucked a lot more than that... you mean I'm in the top quintile? Sounds weird to me, but whooo!!
iCeeYouP 6y ago
This is a gross overgeneralize of what it means to acknowledge that looks matter(i.e. "Blackpill") Guys who refuse to understand this are worse than bluepillers who don't want to hear about the true nature of women. But all three of these pills have a common trait of being delusional.
Blue Pill: Sees 0% of what women are and refuses to do so.
Red Pill: 100% understand self-improvement and works to understand women, but refuses to acknowledge facial aesthetics play a huge role.
Black pill: Same as red pill,accept in the process of understanding looks matter, they refuse to look past that fact.
Game is enabled by looks, whether the community here wants to acknowledge it or not. "Look don't matter as much" is a parroted myth in the community that needs to die out. It's a fallacy that only succeeds to produce more violent Mike Laskowski-esce incels, who studied every nook and cranny of "How to be scary" only to come up short when it's time for the scare-test.(Monsters University for anyone interested in understanding my example) Women are as visual, if not MORE SO, than men. And while I'm debunking "Looks don't matter", let's get to "Chad". Chad isn't a mindset, he is the physical manifestation of physical attractiveness. His habits, i.e. "Confidence/Habits of treating women like shit/ etc." is a byproduct of his success with women, not the other way around. Chad trumps your hard-worked for body, your snazzy fashion sense, your personality, and your financial stability/excess. Not to say game isn't real, but looks are what ENABLE you to run game. Much like you wouldn't fall for the advances of some fat ugly chick. Looks matter a lot, but they come in two categories imo: Biological Looks: Facial Aesthetics, height, race, etc. Artificial looks: Fashion style, hair style, etc.
-Focus on what you can change, but do not forget what terrain(face) you're working with, so adjust accordingly. -
Edit: Formatting
ThrowsSharksAtBirds 6y ago
I agree hard on the Biological looks. I started balding/major thinning hard on hair when I was only 22. That fucking sucks because hair is something that can definitely improve looks by nature and even more as artificial look by styling it.
Guardian_of_Justice 6y ago
I've read your post and essentially correct. But doesn't it make you mad that WE have to change and not these females? Even after i succeded with females i am still mad at the game, it is cruel and is based on an evolutionary trait-attractiveness. Don't you ever wish that the game didn't exist?
Those 20% men and 20% women who get everything never even really bother to appreciate how lucky they are- on top of that, they behave extremely arrogant and full of themselves, when in reality they are just lucky to be born that way and have NO credit in their success.
jihocech 6y ago
The red Pill is a very very American thing. As a Czech guy I can see it better than you. There is spirit of old USA here, of the people who defeated the Britons, the Indians, who conquered thee wilderness, who created free and rich society. TRP does not guarantee anything. Leaving Europe in 1880 did not guaratee anything, but it gave option.
what is Black pill? Complaining, whining... It leads to nowhere.
rreot 6y ago
Yea I concur, as manosphere observer for years its true that many concepts or ideas are just common sense for us in EE.
redd_reality 6y ago
You just jerked off a whole lot of red pillers w that 'old USA' comparison.
Feelin like I need to blast Clearwater revival and machine gun gooks running through rice fields.
Stron2g 6y ago
Black pill is victim mentality.
Red pill is seeing reality for what it is and doing your very best with what you have to maximize your success rate in life.
In a way, black pill is red pills doppelganger, an alter ego of sorts.
redd_reality 6y ago
Black pill is dissatisfaction turned outward and blaming others.
Red pill is dissatisfaction turned inward and blaming yourself.
Difference is, I'm not in control of others, I'm only in control of myself; I can do something about my own feelings of inadequacy.
[deleted] 6y ago
Very interesting observation.
jihocech 6y ago
If you look around this sub, there is almost no hate or envy against the "Chad". But you can find here analysis, what does he do right and what we did do wrong (Rollo Tomassis blog is all about this).
[deleted] 6y ago
Dude, thanks for this observation.
jesussexyabs 6y ago
Interesting perspective. Does anyone think that the constant discussion of feminism in mainstream media leaves no room for a real discussion about masculinity? ....
[deleted] 6y ago
Probably, but no matter. I talk masculinity with this forum, my father, and my best friend. Other than that, I let my actions do the talking.
Edit: think you meant to go one up.
redd_reality 6y ago
The "real" masculinity is the look in a woman's eyes as you walk past her on the street w your muscles popping, hair slicked back and a confident smile on your face.
Suckers live in the collective unconscious and attempt to change it, real men focus on their own consciousness and materialize it.
Mainstream media only serves to further blind the sheep that are already eating their message. Alphas will remain alpha, betas will remain betas. But the gap is polarizing more and more every day.
FeelTheBernieSanderz 6y ago
Actually, men are actively denigrated in society, THAT, IS, the representation.
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surgeon_general 6y ago
There was a time on this subreddit when we weren't even allowed to mention his name. The concensus here was that he was pretty much the opposite of everything that red pill stood for. Ironically, people outside of this subreddit were blaming his red pill views for his actions (if I remember this correctly.)
EvigSoeger 6y ago
What Elliot did after he snapped was crazy, yes, but he wasn't completely mental. Sure, he was Narcissistic, socially awkward, had a terrible attitude and was on prescription drugs, but he was always coherent and consistent about the frustrations that drove him off the deep end. It doesn't excuse his actions in the least (everybody's got problems, man up and deal with them) but when a guy like that is fed nothing but lies about how to get the chip off his shoulder, it's not surprising that he eventually takes it out on the world and/or kills himself.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
Nah. I can promise you he would have acted differentky in another culture ir in another time.
[deleted] 6y ago
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Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
If he were in a more masculine society he would be normal
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jetman209 6y ago
nah he clearly had real issues picking up social cues and such and interacting on a normal basis. This is something that no amount of RP can fix when you have a legit medical issue and refuse to take the medicine or go to counseling to fix.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
Counseling and medicine do not magically improve a persons ability to pick up social cues. That can only be done through more social exposure and practice. There a very few spergs in highly masculine cultures, as boys with trouble picking up social cues will be taught by fathers or shamed by their peers until they learn.
jetman209 6y ago
I think you are missing the point, I don’t believe he could, no matter any amount of social interaction or guidance. From the videos he posted and his little manifesto he was clearly deranged past the point of no return. most people with some men with some mental issues can be taught how to function in society but he was so far gone I’m honestly surprised he didn’t commit a similar act earlier in his life. Most so called “incels” are just lazy people that don’t want to take the necessary actions to improve, but there is probably a select few in that community that legitimately do belong in a asylum.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
He was in "late stage" when he posted the videos. He had suffered from social isolation for a long time. If he lived in a masculine culture, he would have been pushed to compete amd develop from day 1
jetman209 6y ago
Things might have been different if he had a strong male role model in his life or if he lived in a less feminine culture, but from watching his videos something about me struck me as off. I don’t think he was playing with a full deck of cards nor was born with one. I think there are some people out there (who also happen to be incels) who are just to fucked in the head to ever function in any kind of society. To me he is just one more reason why I don’t ever want to have kids ultimately his parents failed to take proper responsibilities for there creations.
Bergatario 6y ago
I went from having a couple of long terms girlfriends in school, to banging chicks every night just by starting to work as a bartender /cocktail waiter in a Segnor Frogs style restaurant in a party town. I'm average looking and never had a problem getting girls just because I talked to all of them, played the numbers game and escalated pretty quickly. Alcohol helps! I'm now happily married and happy to be out of the game, but I do remember the dramatic jump from high school to a pussy parade just by getting that job. So the moral of the story is, if you want to be a fisherman, you have to go where the fish are and put your rod in, many, many times until they bite!
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chinese-bible 6y ago
The Pareto principle is that 20% of efforts/ causes result in 80% of results. It has to do with focus. Take getting abs. CICO accounts for most of getting abs, not carb-refeeding-cycles or lemon-cayenne cleanses or whether you do dragon flies vs bosu crunches on Wednesday. All bullshit. Focus on big, simple things -- not minutia. That's Pareto. It's not that the top 20% reap 80% of the rewards. Nope. That HAPPENS to be true with men, but it's not Pareto. It doesn't apply to women. Do the top 20% of women get 80% of the men-- whatever? No, of course not. Men have lower standards and will fuck a lot looser including "Fuckin down" more frequently hence why the Alphas have harems. Reverse isn't true.
I hate the focus on "game". Game is marketing. YOU are the product. To make the sale you need a decent product AND decent marketing. It's not rocket science. There are facial looks (can be improved with diet, leanness, makeup, hygiene, facial hair, haircuts) .... body looks (hit the gym) .... your general attitude/ demeanor/ fun loving personality ... your job, your wealth, your lifestyle, your fame, your social circle, your hobbies, your achievements, your mission, skills, talents, your geographic location, your values, your sense of humor. Many of these CAN BE IMPROVED. Game is just "icing" on the cake. Leonardo DiCaprio requires zero game. Adam Levine requires zero game. A smelly zit-face lardass gamer with no friends and no job is going to require a metric FUCK-TON of game rivaling the greatest world leaders and Machiavellian psychoanalysts of all time, combined, to land a 10. Game is important but requires a solid foundation. It's rare for women to have game -- but you ever meet one that did? A 7 that just made your balls tingly? Now ... has a 300 lb land whale ever done that to you? Yeah ... you need a foundation.
Incels don't realize that. That the social ladder is largely ephemeral, mercurial bullshit that can be bent to your will if you understand the rules. If you're a zit-faced, noodly-armed, openly-Anime-loving, 4chan-roaming geekoid with a mustard-stained T-shirt on, then yes .... nobody will respect you, including women. Self-awareness is paramount. People in this rough patch think it was "ordained" by the universe on high that they will be lifelong losers. Step 1 is realizing that's not true, that you can climb out of hell. Unfortunately if you're too far up your own ass, you end up going psycho.
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n0oo7 6y ago
Fuck ,15 partners at the top 20% I lost my virginity at 18 and had like bedded over 30 girls in four years from than. I thought I was bottom 20%
demshter 6y ago
I find it interesting how society's and Media's method of dealing with these incels is to.. further humiliate and isolate them. It's insane.
[deleted] 6y ago
What else can they possibly say though? Sorry that we abandoned a system older than western civilization itself that guaranteed the vast majority of men an opportunity to marry in order to reorganize society to service the female imperative? Sorry that our social policies helped destroy the support structure provided by the nuclear family and communities? Sorry that we have loaded up the education system with left wing feminists who have no understanding of how to connect with young men?
To say anything else regarding incels would be to admit, at least on some level, that their entire worldview is based on a pernicious lie. Easier to blame it on guns and Trump and call it a day.
demshter 6y ago
literally anything that isnt going to make them more likely to kill a bunch of people. its like having a lion that kills people when its poked with a stick, and society is responding by poking that lion, with a stick.
Andgelyo 6y ago
Jesus Christ an average man only has 6 partners in his life? Wow, I’m more than double that number at 27 (it could’ve been a lot higher if I focused more). Imagine dudes who are already in like high 20s and above lol the more partners you have the more likely you will catch an STD though which is why I am very selective and even trying to obtain an LTR now
oldrunnerguy 6y ago
A lot of us in the manosphere can feel justified in our anger towards women and the SMP. It all is a matter of how you channel that anger. The key is improvement without expectation from others (especially women). The person whose opinion that is most important to you is yourself. If you learn to channel your anger to improve yourself for the one person that matters, you, then you can take pride on what you accomplish on your own. When you have that sense of pride and accomplishment inwardly, no one can take that away from you. Otherwise, if you don't focus on yourself, you will live a life of frustration, and this won't matter whether you have a woman in your life or not.
[deleted] 6y ago
Disappointed when I read the post. I thought the black pill would be the dark triad ... not a bunch of incels!!
Lack of redpill fathers or of fathers in general in kids lives is a major determinative factor is failing to adjust to life in a healthy way. Kids need dads.
[deleted] 6y ago
Today's women are useless whores. How will you respond?
If the goal is finding a wife to be the faithful mother of your children, then actually it is the Incels who are the only ones discussing a real solution because they are the only ones talking about a revolution to bring back enforced patriarchy. Redpill's only answer to this problem is to run constant dread game under a matriarchal system and hope for the best. Banging whores is easy once you get your game on point, but stop kidding yourselves, you've also given up on having what you really want.
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[deleted] 6y ago
When someone raises the red pill flag in revolt and calls for loyal followers to flock to the banner, I’ll be the first one there if there’s a chance of success. Doesn’t seem very realistic though does it? I guess getting laid is the only option in the meantime.
There are no examples of a civilization returning to a more sexually conservative or patriarchal state once abandoned. Pandora’s box is opened.
sadomasochrist 6y ago
You don't give up on fantasies you adjust your expectations.
Flintblood 6y ago
TRP and PUA dancing monkeys deny they are in denial of this. They are still adopting actions to perform ‘for women’ like blue pill men. They are performing for them - doing game and fashion things because they believe that women like those things and will reward them for playing that part. Maybe they do, and maybe they don’t sometimes. I truly believe it’s probably more of a numbers game.
You can still build a better you by working out, learning and growing status - without playing ‘the game’. Have you ever read supposed TRP and PUA dating advice sites? It’s all about doing things the woman’s way, to please some would-be date.
fdsafdasfdsafds 6y ago
After a couple of years here I took a 6 month break when I landed in Thailand. Came back recently and realised exactly this "for women" attitude you mention. I didn't even see it before. Was mainly because I went MGTOW for a while and started a business and simply don't have time for them.
Now understand they have almost no value to my life. I read a lot of posts here and think "but why bother?".. why all of this study and analysis? It leads to nought. Look after yourself and your loved ones, do what you love and go live a fulfilling life, stop depending on women for anything. You don't need them.
The only thing we need women for are to raise children.. and I think that is one of the most difficult challenges we face. Like it or not, if good, strong men don't stand up and choose from these "useless whores" which ones will become mothers, then we leave it up to BPers and carry on the destructive trend of weak men raising weak men.
Flintblood 6y ago
Well written brother. I’m really surprised your reply doesn’t have more upvotes.
Which I like women. I have a lot of cool female friends. They are not my best friends, but I still consider them my equal peers and friends, but I let my actions and my efforts speak to my worth as a person, and I mainly listen to myself and those closest to me when it comes to feedback regarding my virtues.
The number one misconception about “men going their own way” is that they must ‘hate women’. I don’t hate them. I simply don’t build my life around seeking their approval for self validation. How I take their thoughts on how I should dress and act are tempered with my own indifference towards their approval.
[deleted] 6y ago
You're joking, right? TRP dating advice is to get ripped to activate Tingles, don't spend money on women, don't go more than three dates without sex, always game multiple women... not exactly doing things the woman's way.
Flintblood 6y ago
So TRP dating advice on how to attract and give women ‘tingles’ can be reduced down to “getting ripped”? That’s all one has to do?
[deleted] 6y ago
I laid out four different things, which you reduced to one.
Flintblood 6y ago
So those other things, not spending money on women, gaming multiple women, and not going more than 3 dates — those are things you do to win women? Or are they the consequences, the spoils of your efforts?
I guarantee that if you fully read TRP dating advice on blog sites and here, you will notice that they ask men to do a lot more than what you listed.
[deleted] 6y ago
I'm familiar with TRP, Blackdragon, and the Good Looking Loser. All are about getting to sex, fast, without spending money. If you're doing more than I listed, you're not doing it right.
Flintblood 6y ago
If it’s not much really, what’s the basic recipe?
[deleted] 6y ago
Your words:
Obviously you are not approaching this in good faith.
I could tell you my basic recipe, but it would probably fall on deaf ears....at best. I will say it wouldn't work for all, or even most, guys. I'm good looking, smart, and have a good sense of humor, although I'm on the wrong side of 40. I'm in better shape than most men half my age, and while you guys wail on about nofap/porn/whatever, I'll be over here lifting and fucking the girls you should be.
[deleted]
Flintblood 6y ago
You say your recipe is simple, so I’m definitely interested. I will hear you out.
Whisper 6y ago
Everyone always works on what they perceive their biggest problem to be.
Therefore, by looking at what people are working on, you can tell what they are most worried about.
Red pill readers work on improving themselves to get laid. Therefore, they think of their problem as "I want more and/or better pussy".
Incel Calvinists work on constructing a coherent explanation for how their lack of sexual success is not their fault. Therefore the problem that most concerns them is how they feel about their lack of sexual success.
What this tells us is that even they don't believe it. If they did, there would be nothing further to say, and no reason to think further about it.
Mach2Machiavellian 6y ago
That’s actually really insightful.
max_peenor 6y ago
What I'm waiting for is when someone actually does try to radicalize them. Sorry, CNN, autists shitting their own cribs on /pol/ isn't a radical plot. They are just acting out. However, they would be quite the dedicated and dangerous army under proper leadership. I'm wondering where everyone thinks these kids are going to go if they don't wake up and listen to us (and actually become something women want) or give up and hang themselves.
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dinnerwithfunions 6y ago
I really don't get black pill mindset. I think their way of thinking has more to do with overexposure to toxic shit on the internet (dwelling on chads, nature of hypergamy, personal faults etc..) They literally obsess over this shit and it cripples them from actual real world observation.
If you leave the internet and go to your nearest city, mall, or generally just spend time in more IRL social environments, you'll notice that even ugly people have sex. Betas have sex, chads have sex.. etc.. The problem with incels is they don't take into consider that "leagues" are a thing.. IE: you might not be able to bang some hot sorority cheerleader since she's too busy getting fucked stupid by chad and other frat bros, but there's always those girls who don't get that much attention from those types of guys and any dude who's no socially retarded and can learn some game basics can usually get with those chicks. I've seen those types of chicks spending all their time with geeky kinda queer gamer dudes at college. These guys just need to stop being pussies and simply approach/ask a girl out.. Then follow basic PUA guide steps to get her back to your place to netflix and chill and seal the deal.
If you don't want to settle for average looking chicks, go fucking lift, study your ass off, and generally excel in life to make yourself a prize worth being with. EVEN THEN THOUGH, AWALT. Suck it up and deal with it and just be thankful you got to bang some thot with a phat ass.
lotteryroll 6y ago
That’s the problem though. They are. They’re both ugly and autistic/extremely socially anxious. That’s literally a death sentence.
Mach2Machiavellian 6y ago
Some TRP posters/commenters can lean toward incel thinking with their negativity (perhaps just going through the anger phase), and these are the parts of this community I don’t like. This is where some of TRP’s misogynistic dark side can peek through, because in general men who have success with women don’t go on rants about how wicked and awful they are.
I come here for the useful bits. The constructive strategy, the tips for self-improvement, be it sexual or otherwise. I want absolutely nothing to do with the bleakness and nihilism of the Black Pill mindset, even if it comes dressed in red.
Rian_Stone 6y ago
Something to think about with all these 'pills'.
Redpill made something. everyone else has no frame, and adopted ours, even our peanut gallery. Any non-redpill group is in RP frame.
Just laugh and move on
Iwannachokekatie 6y ago
We stole the 'red pill' from a movie.
Rian_Stone 6y ago
Good artists borrow, great artists steal.
Also, your point would make sense if everyone was walking around with duster jackets practicing kung fu, or if we constantly compared ourselves with the characters from the Matrix
Iwannachokekatie 6y ago
This is not art.
[deleted] 6y ago
In a sense, but I see the Red Pill as a template that has been implemented before but on much smaller degrees and circles, within the past. By that I mean what has been said on here, whether right or wrong, nasty or hopeful, is opinions and facts which have been stated before, on a personal, face to face conversation. But now we have the power of the web to communicate these ideas in a marketplace.
Rian_Stone 6y ago
Guys swapping notes.
Doesnt change that rp frame is leading the way
[deleted] 6y ago
I have known some very average or below average guys that get laid a lot and the vast majority of the ladies are very attractive. One childhood friend is often unemployed, lives in his parents guest house, has a kid, battles depression, is 5’9 max, etc.
How at 35 does he consistently have 4/5 attractive girls in their early to mid 20’s in the rotation?
Mach2Machiavellian 6y ago
Let’s dub this holy trinity “FFF” – Fearless, Fit, and Fun. Especially once a guy hits his 30s, being FFF puts him well above his competition.
Source: FFF guy in his 30s.
AuspexAO 6y ago
Ha ha, in the medical biz we call that gall bladder risk, son! (Female, Fat, and Forty)
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midnightreider 6y ago
I like it
ButtRobot 6y ago
Care to elaborate on this a bit? I'm interested in this concept,
I've always felt like I was an apt speaker. Yet, I feel like I fuck up narration or story telling hopelessly. What would you recommend?
Mach2Machiavellian 6y ago
Did you mean to ask /u/dealarchitect?
masomenos123456789 6y ago
how tall are they?
WolfofAnarchy 6y ago
The shortest dude I know is also the most successful dude I know, with women. I can tell you're looking for an excuse. There can be no excuses.
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sadomasochrist 6y ago
Black Pill : This is the way it is, I reject participating. (Discouraged)
Blue Pill : This is the way I believe it should be, I don't need to change (compete). (Naive)
Red Pill : This is the way it is, I must compete. (Informed)
They can't be unified exactly since blue pill males are using idealized concepts. Black pill males have more in common with us than they do with blue pill men. They just reject competing for whatever reason. I don't buy the MGTOW guys. They're just black pill men in denial.
The few guys that legit are "MGTOW" are either asexual or low sex drive naturals.
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yeahmaybe2 6y ago
Black Pill = Fixed mindset
Red Pill = Growth mindset
Blue Pill = "There's a mindset?"
marian5567 6y ago
Black Pill : Can't get money & looks Red Pill: Try to get them Blue Pill: What's money and looks?
TheRedPike Senior Endorsed 6y ago
I rarely give points, but rarely do I see someone explain the dynamic as succinct as this.
+1
Black_m0ngoose 6y ago
I'll go one step further.
The blue pill: the truth defines you.
The red pill: you define the truth.
Give me my muthafuckin point.
[deleted] 6y ago
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TheRedPike Senior Endorsed 6y ago
NSFW
HumanSockPuppet 6y ago
The thing is, The Black Pill provides no insight into the aspect of reality that really matters: control over yourself.
Yeah, women are selfish. Yeah, men are selfish. Yeah, the evolution game is tilted in favour of the bold and the ready. So what? Now that you know how to make yourself ready, get off your ass and get to work.
The Blue is self-delusion regarding everything in the world.
The Black Pill is self-delusion about the most important aspect of the world, the self.
And the Red Pill is an acceptance of unpleasant truths in the pursuit of being free from servitude.
max_peenor 6y ago
Which is precisely why so many political entities (aka the media) are desperate to herd us into the camps with the incels: we represent the unwinding of their narrative and they just can't stand it.
AuspexAO 6y ago
Societies rely on "panem et circenses" (bread and circuses) to keep the people placated and happy. Monogamy is a glue for society, as is the idea that "everyone has someone" that keeps people dreaming and working in hope that their resources will attract a mate.
The red pill reference was, of course, a nod to waking up from a false world, but that awakening leads to so much more than just how woman and men really are or that men need to adapt or die. It's also waking up from the lies civilizations tell their people to keep them placid (and, in this case, flaccid).
I can't imagine a philosophy more terrifying to someone in power than the improvement of the masses in body and mind.
Zech4riah 6y ago
Just as a fun fact:
In Finnish (leftist) media there was a story about incel Alek Minassion (recently mass murdered people in Toronto) - In that story TRP subreddit was labeled "surprisingly" as one of the misogynistic areas.
Whisper 6y ago
No matter how bad the hand of cards you have been dealt, your only options are play to the best of your ability, or don't.
The results of the first are quantifiably better. Your choice is not between average genetics with active effort to learn and improve, or super genetics. It's between whatever genetics you have with effort to improve your lot, or without.
Your genetics, like the nature of women, is the terrain, i.e. an aspect of the the battlefield which you must work with because you cannot alter it.
originaltransvaginal 6y ago
Do you guys offer anything to suggest that you're forming these opinions objectively? The way this discussion is evolving lends itself so much to tribalism, that the question must be asked, are we simply protecting our own butts?
My thesis is that we're dealing with a crowd who was thoughtful enough to show themselves the light. If they went wrong from there they still have my respect. I cannot understand the desire to "other" the only other group which is willing to acknowledge us in an intelligent manner.
The idea that tRP is the only one of these that is viable is setting off bias alarms. It all feels very similar to how Jordan Peterson expresses his thoughts on MGTOW. He suggests they are bitter and resentful and that they should work on themselves.
Except for the fact that they'd be the only ones carrying that burden. Women cant work harder to overcome biology, but men should grow up. To suggest they work harder ignores everyone below them. It may be irresponsible of them, but nothing is foolish if you can explain your reasoning and justifying that you don't care if the reprocusions are severe.
It an option between being selfish(mgtow) alone or selfless(TRP spinning plates or captaining an LTR/marriage) alone. I get it the vocal incels are morons, but they are low hanging fruit. We won't grow from having such a weak strawman. They can be intelligent and still decide the SMV isn't worth it.
It's even one of his fucking rules to treat a dissenter with the openness that they MIGHT have something worthwhile to say.
I'm blessed with looks so maybe it's easy for me to sympathize with these guys. Maybe some of us want to be tough on this topic cuz it's eating at the back of their minds, always. The world is fucked up. And one of the only ways you could fuck it more, is to raise kids on the idea that it's all magical, only to rip that out from under them. I cannot shit on the dudes who are intelligent enough to realize this but can't get over it.
I would never denigrate nihilistic pragmatism in the name of the hard work a sheep or natural could accomplish without coming to that realization.
Whisper 6y ago
There's no "we". TRP is a forum for strategy discussion. There's no movement, no membership card, and no philosophy. I'm not trying to launch a crusade, or discover the "truth" (whatever that word might mean). I'm telling dudes how to get laid.
This isn't a debate about what's real. It's a choice between "trying to get laid" and "not trying".
Wanna try? Here's the tools. Don't wanna try? Fine, off you go.
originaltransvaginal 6y ago
The elation I felt thinking you'd decided to engage me. The excitement at the possibility of having my mind changed or educated.
Look if questioning you made it seem as if I was a contrarian then I'm willing to look the other way. I don't pretend I'm as eloquent a writer as someone with readers. I was simply trying to pose the opposing view point a bit more robustly. I won't say intelligently because I'm just riffing.
I don't even know why I care about this point. I enjoy your writings. I'm a fan of this place, and I am not someone who says "I only accept certain aspects of the pill".
It feels weird that id be met with such a sentiment. That my question would elicit a defense is discouraging.
Whisper 6y ago
Missed the point.
You're talking about what the truth is, as if TRP were the philosophy department at some university.
But I'm not here to deal in eternal verities, as if we were somehow equipped to study and chart the map of human sexuality. I deal in gross generalizations that get dudes laid.
As such, the world can be divided into shit you can change and shit you can't change. Arguing about how much there is of each one is pointless, because you act the same either way... you deal only in shit you can change, because the other is by definition pointless to explore.
Even if the "black pill" were 97% percent true, it would be pointless to know this. Knowledge is only worthwhile when it empowers by enabling action.
assholeofthesky 6y ago
Because we have so many incels/betas here (myself included) it makes looking for decent content quite hard. when i first started frequenting here, it's still been a few years but everything is slowly digesting.
The anger stage utterly destroyed me and a lot of friendships, maybe i will redeem myself but lads...be careful as you can become a piece of shit quite easily.
give love to the women, fuck that bitch, dont do anything that gets yourself arrested.
stoic mind lads, quit the beta behaviour and fight for your future
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Black_m0ngoose 6y ago
Anger is the poison you drink to kill your enemies.
A man who surrenders to his anger surrenders his will to succeed. To succeed- you must push past the anger.
Anger at the world- anger at yourself for being so foolish.
You cannot change the past- you can only change the present.
Do not allow yourself to be infected by the pessimistic nature of the world.
To be redpilled is to see how stacked the odds are against you, and to push through with a smile regardless.
Success is not sustainable if you cannot achieve it through overcoming adversity. It takes just as much energy to be blackpilled as it does to be redpilled.
Guardian_of_Justice 6y ago
Even after you accept the world and your mistakes. Doesn't it really hurt you sometimes that YOU had to walk the road of hardship, misery and anger while someone has it at his fingertips? I bet it will even hurt you when you are completely happy and achieved your TRP and self goals. We are all blackpillers to some degree.
Black_m0ngoose 6y ago
Then you don't really understand what life is about.
Men are made, not born.
The black pill is doesn't exist- you are either red pilled or blue pilled.
You either define your perspective, or your perspective defines you.
Guardian_of_Justice 6y ago
So you're saying this fucked up way of things and the hard-to-swallow pills leave no mark on you as a person? My point doesn't exclude your point. The black pill arises when a man feels that he has no power over one's state of affairs(over one's fate someone might say). It is my duty to help those who are in depression like this. Because complete unhappiness often is the cause of crimes, abuse, suicide, etc.
crowscountingspades 6y ago
Ski instructor for four years in the 70's/early 80's at major destination resorts.
Lost track at 100. (Probably 150?)
broscientologist 6y ago
It is all colors on the same rainbow. To acknowledges that the game exists and plays it. Incels acknowledge that the game exists and that they lost. The top tier winners of the game don’t care and don’t play. The just win. In the middle are mgtows and newmales. The newmales accept there place in the 50/50 win loss and take their beatings. Mgtows just say fuck it and leave.
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broscientologist 6y ago
They would also point out that gaining status, money, & power requires socialization. That is a closed door to many very ugly people. Especially when the ladder to success starts at a very early age.
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altlegend 6y ago
Difference is that Black Pill incel's promote violence against women. No discussion RP wins.
Praeger 6y ago
Honest question that I've never considered till reading this:
I'm 34 and have had over 200 (closer to 300) sexual partners. I am bi sexual, but only a third of these are guys.
Most I'd say are 4-5's, a large number of 6-8's, a 1 that looked like an 8 until she talked (dropping her to a 4) and then a 1 when she stripped (it's called soap, use it!!), and a couple of 9 and 10's
I've never NEVER considered myself attractive, I've always thought I failed at game, and I'm single when I'd like to be happily married.
This isn't a bragging thing, honestly I just take any (reasonable) offer open that sounds fun.
So I guess my question is - why can my basic ass get so much, yet feel so empty? And if I can do it, why the Fuck can't these incel guys??? I never thought of myself in the top percentile until reading this post - mainly again as I'm single. I've got plates, always have something new every week or so, but being single I've always thought I was a failure (until this post lol)
TempleOfIron 6y ago
In my opinion, it's not really Red Pill to base your success on chasing pussy. Yet, you say that here and you'll be downvoted into oblivion. The truth hurts I suppose.
I take the approach of, build it and they will come. Simply put if you focus on lifting for yourself. Building a career for yourself. Really focusing on what makes you happy. They will seek you out. You don't have to base everything in terms of seeking female approval. That's very gynocentric. There's a reason why women are addicted to indifferent men. Because they have more going on than just focusing on chasing pussy.
Building yourself up for pussy is a fool's errand. Because getting pussy is really actually fucking easy. This is where most men who swallow the red pill get stuck. And once you do get women. What does your life become? That's why your legacy is most important. Which evidently women find attractive. Does the Red Pill help? Of course, but again it's much better to build yourself up than focus on bitches.
Majority of red pillers aren't red pill. They may be red pill aware but they back track incredibly. Because why would a man who knew the truth of female nature ever cohabitate or marry one? My criticism lies with the likes of Red Pill Married. I mean just lol. They took the red pill to become better dildos for their wives whilst he hopes to god she doesn't divorce rape him. Or the overwhelming amount of men who come to askTRP for advice on their failing LTR. And just lol at Red Pill women.
The way I see it. The Red Pill has a majority of idealists amongst true bachelors. And whilst they mock incels for adhering to black pill traits, they are still plugged in themselves.
[deleted] 6y ago
Again, women are a lagging indicator. TRP has its roots in PUA which has its roots in evolutionary psychology. There's a damned good case to be made that a major motivator for greatness in men is getting that sweet pussy payoff.
[deleted] 6y ago
Isn’t there a Dave Chappelle bit on this? If women would fuck us on cardboard boxes there’d be no houses.
fdsafdasfdsafds 6y ago
..quickly followed by indulgence, being jaded and de-pedestalising -- "this is what all the fuss is about? An unreliable person with a pussy who offers no long-term gain whatsoever? This is what I'm going to invest my life and future into?".. hopefully, then followed by NEXT.
I've found it very difficult to not fall into MGTOW after seeing the stake of truth battered into my heart again and again. Women, in their current state, offer nothing but pussy.. and pussy is overrated. I'm not 16 any more. Couldn't care less about a wet hole.
She doesn't go to the gym for me, doesn't develop my career for me, doesn't build my business for me, doesn't provide loyalty or commitment. I don't need to be mothered; can cook and clean for myself, and I have many people I would rather turn to for intellectual stimulation. So exactly what are women providing apart from over-valued pussy? Kids.. mother of my children.. that's about it. But without loyalty or commitment that's too much of a risk on the poor souls that come out of her vagina.
Hard to not completely drop them when you realise this.
empatheticapathetic 6y ago
Incels have had no success. So the nihilism is the only option left.
If you TRPed for a few years and got nowhere, eventually you’d say “sure the black pill makes sense”.
The correlation is the majority are essentially virgins. They haven’t made it anywhere. If they had had a bit of success they’d drop the shit and move on.
Trying doesn’t guarantee success and they want to make a cost benefit analysis before trying.
[deleted] 6y ago
Yea I think this is overlooked. Some guys are just so helpless that TRP isn’t going go help much. Most guys who swallow the red pill at least have a base to start from. They are regular guys that got screwed over by a chick one too many times or they don’t understand why they are decent looking and employed but underperform in the dating market.
TRP can help them the most, because for all its grandiosity, TRP is really at its core mostly just a subtle shift in how you think. Sadly, it probably can’t do much for the incel crowd that is just so far to the left end of the bell curve.
RedwallAllratuRatbar 6y ago
For a blackpill blogger, go see Aaron Sleazy. Guy basically says that he is handsome and can put some serious chicks, and that PUA and any techniques are irrelevant.
Following him for a year made me incel (All those notches I pulled before? It was before I was good looking and only that! So I can just be nice and sweet and get girls. NOPE)
Incel_Executioner 6y ago
The only divergence between black and red pills are genetics. It's easy to deride incels for being lazy or defeatist when you yourself were born with genetics to succeed.
Give or take a few different alleles and you'd be on the other side of the fence.
Ill_Will7 1 6y ago
I disagree. Thats the fate of women not men. If your physically/mentally able and ready to work hard on yourself, even if your an ugly mutha, you could bag a low smv girl. Get more social proof and muscles and money and charisma. You cant honestly think that those positives wont help you. So many girls are lonely as shit out there and wish they had attention from a guy just like yourself.
[deleted] 6y ago
The echo chamber of defeatist horseshit. You think the men here haven’t suffered? The difference is we stopped being victims and owned our reality. You’re so hideously deformed not one sexually attractive women will take your seed? Who are you trying to fool.
Incel_Executioner 6y ago
Genetics are the only difference.
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Incel_Executioner 6y ago
Surgery might be the way out. Is a few tens of thousands such a big number in a world with billions of humans?
xeroblaze0 6y ago
A man with no limbs is married. He's done more shit than most on this thread. Nick Vujicic
Moist___ 6y ago
He's also rich and famous. Has nothing to do with it
xeroblaze0 6y ago
How do you think he got rich and famous? It has everything to do with it.
Incel_Executioner 6y ago
Incels are not most people. We are the most downtrodden, wretched group in existence. I'm not sure why you'd want to bring up your weight in response to a comment on genetics.
Ill_Will7 1 6y ago
Understand that if your alive today than you are a survivor. If you were not than you would be dead. Since your not dead than you should not be telling yourself your a victim. If you really feel that bad on yourself than go buy a hooker or go to a "rub and tug" massage. Maybe the touch of any woman will reinvigorate you back to a healthier state of mind
Incel_Executioner 6y ago
why would I buy a hooker? It's validation and affection I want. Real, not bought.
xeroblaze0 6y ago
So what have you done for yourself to get that?
[deleted] 6y ago
Objectively, what makes you ugly?
Incel_Executioner 6y ago
Born with a horrible hairline, coupled with a jimmy neutron skull shape. I look like an absolute freak because of a combination of height and width. Might also be balding, not clear to me whether it's maturing hairline or actually balding. If it's the latter I won't hesitate about taking finastride for a split second.
Moving lower, fucked T-area. Eye area is very assymetrical, coupled with my crooked nose and narrow mouth compared to skull shape (looks comical consider the width of my skull). Nose is crooked from the start of the bridge, but that's maybe something an extensive rhinoplasty could fix. The lack of facial harmony between these 3 features really adds up to a repulsive picture. The only positive features I can think of are thick hair that I can use to cover up my hairline, but if that balds then it's over for me barring surgery. Jaw and chin are fine. Nothing special, just average.
Overall makes a solid 3/10 even with a 180lbs 275 bench and 500lbs deadlift, good skin and white teeth.
SkyloRen66 6y ago
I know lots of ugly Niggas that still pull hella pussy. Lower your standards and be in shape and you will be fine. No matter what you look like, the hotter girls equal more drama and trouble than they are typically worth.
[deleted] 6y ago
How tall are you? If your body is ripped, you can atleast pull 5s with some game and confindence
Incel_Executioner 6y ago
Honestly from what I've seen to gleam on nights out with friends 5s are far more picky than 6s and 7s. Juggernaut effect is real.
Ill_Will7 1 6y ago
All i said was "Maybe the touch of any woman will reinvigorate you back to a healthier state of mind." I think part of your problem is that you are wanting the girl to give all of herself to you because you feel like your so willing and ready to give yourself all to her. This is detrimental and causes oneitis, you will scare her away by wanting validation and affection upfront. SHE WANTS VALIDATION FROM YOU. because your such a stoic cool man that you don't search for validation in a girl, you have already validated yourself. If you really want help and advice PM me and ill gladly talk to you.
Incel_Executioner 6y ago
I'm too self aware to be giving women validation and affection up front. I was red pilled before I was blackpilled after all. I couldn't do it in any case since women don't even want to let me beta orbit or friendzone or whatever with them. Women want nothing to do with me platonically or otherwise.
Ill_Will7 1 6y ago
Did you come to trp to look for help? Or did you come here to validate your victimization? You sure can think of a lot of excuses why you can't do something. I think you actually enjoy your pain because its the only thing familiar to you
Incel_Executioner 6y ago
What excuses?
jesussexyabs 6y ago
I have to say I am so extremely impressed with this post. I think it helps move the conversation forward in a new direction.
itsjustsimon- 6y ago
Incels are redpilled men in a crab bucket.
Arabian_Wolf 6y ago
What do you call a pill that makes one awaken to their own family dynamic, gets angry about being lied to and getting unfair treatment in every aspects (emotionally and financially etc)? Caused by a domineering mother, psycho older sibling and enabling father.
It also made me to self-improve like never before, through lifting compound lifts, and reading quality books by Robert Greene, Nassim Taleb and others.
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[deleted] 6y ago
I think that to talk SMV we have to acknowledge RMV, at least occasionally, for guys who'll never cut it in the SMP. I think it's a mistake to conflate the 2, although of course there is overlap. Some men who have no chance in the SMP might still be a useful enough idiot for LTR's. Whether or not it's worth it to play by women's rules rather than being an incel is not up to me to decide.
I'm purposely lowering my RMV. Fuck LTR's, although MLTR's are fine.
Great post.
Ezaar 6y ago
At least this offers avenues for self improvement. You can not deny that aspect as an incredibly fulfilling avenue for an individual.
The goals for the individual are to be determined by the individual, but there’s so much more that I get out of this than just learning how to game. But I can get some good insight into game while I am here.
Praise the Austrian oak.
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ben1324 6y ago
The only thing I agree with black pill with more than this sub, is the importance of looks. Not just lifting and styling looks, but your genetics. I believe the structure of your face place a huge role in attractiveness.
Mach2Machiavellian 6y ago
Black Pill thinking doesn’t just say looks are important, it says they are the only thing that matters, and are fundamentally immutable.
I think everyone would agree that looks are important. But as a person who has both improved his looks since young adulthood and seen how different behaviors result in different outcomes (even with the same looks), I know from personal experience that a guy can always improve his odds.
That is, assuming he’s willing to work at it, rather than just taking his little ball and going home in a huff.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 6y ago
It absolutely matters but sometimes you have to play the hand you were dealt. Whining and complaining about it isn't a strategy.
So you are a 5'5 short fat Indian? Lose weight and then become the best 5'5 Indian you can be and let the chips fall where they may.
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empatheticapathetic 6y ago
And if they don’t fall anywhere then embrace the black pill.
[deleted] 6y ago
There is a difference between "Looks are important, but not the end all be all" and "Looks are everything". Incels deny the fact that game, confidence, charisma, humour frame etc does anything at all and say "if you are below 8/10 it is over"
Guardian_of_Justice 6y ago
Probably they say "if you are below 2/10 it is over". Which is actually true. Would you date/fuck a 1/10 woman if you had other options? I HIGHLY doubt. Don't make incels crazy idiots, they are just very unlucky men. And their rage is easily understandable.
[deleted] 6y ago
They have literally said it is over for below 8/10 guys
atheist_terry_jones 6y ago
they do not deny that. its marginal though, and not everyone has the baseline requirements.
tempolaca 6y ago
> he came from a well-off family and wasn't an ugly guy.
Rodgers was very short. He even seemed to acknowledge that as the reason close to the end. Also, obviously he was insane.
The truth is that height is a very big factor on SMV and it's only getting more so. Me, I'm median height in my country (5'9) and it's extremely hard. The few people over 6'0 here have basically no trouble getting almost any girl. I have a friend that is a CEO and have multiple other business, packed full of money, cars, etc. He's 5'5, can't get a girlfriend. I have a biker friend, tatoos, shredded, etc. about 5'3, can't get any girlfriend. When I go out with my CEO friend, guess who gets the girl? yes, I get the girl, he being a blonde blue-eyed millionarie, but I'm 10 cm taller. Yes, he doesn't have any game but after a life of rejections your game gets weaker.
Height is VERY important and if you are short it's like swimming in honey, and under certain height is basically a huge amount of work for diminishing returns and Rodgers, in his insanity, knew that.
hb8only 6y ago
:D :D :D
LOL
I'm 6'1 and was incel during school but the biggest lady man was 5'5 (165cm) so FUCK YOU WITH YOUR THEORY ABOUT HEIGHT you faggot!
I guarantee you if you were 7 fucking foot tall, you would find another excuse...
Guardian_of_Justice 6y ago
Brilliant, just brilliant mate. I am 5'5 as well and it's just as you say, a lot harder.
DownvoteToDisagree 6y ago
That's true re: height, probably the most influential and completely unchangeable variable for a man's SMV. However, if you give a short guy access to TRP and he uses it to get laid at least 6 times in his life, he's already beating out half the American male population.
Flintblood 6y ago
And what does that say about ‘the game’ as we know it? I’m certainly over those 6 times but I am also over 30 and have had several long term relationships.
Others may look at those odds and simply decide their time is better spent doing things they enjoy on their own terms. That’s what I think the non-angry part of MGTOW is about.
[deleted] 6y ago
I disagree. If you are atleast average height facial aesthetics matter a lot more than your height. I have a 6'4 friend who is still a virgin at 19 because he is a 4/10 in the face, and a 5'9 guy who is good looking and gets girls without even having game
[deleted] 6y ago
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laserjubilees 6y ago
Shorter ladies will often prefer shorter really athletic guys. Theres a limit a guy more than 3 heads taller than the lady is just awkward.
tempolaca 6y ago
My experience cannot be more different. Shorter ladies will almost always prefer tall guys. It's the tall, lanky ladies that seem care the least about height.
tempolaca 6y ago
I'm also in a LTR but remember, being in a LTR is the **easiest** way to have sexual relationships. STR, plate spinning, etc. are strategies that require much more SMV (but are arguably better) and it's what TRP is all about.
adool999 6y ago
In what way are short term relationships better? There is more excitement for sure. I enjoy doing jack shit with a girl watching tv all night.
tempolaca 6y ago
I don't know if they are better, but I know a thing, you are here, so you are not "part of the general population" and you know how to workaround your limitations in height and SMV.
redvelvet_oreo 6y ago
Since I became TRP aware its amazed me how many people deny game or just hate it. Alot of people on this sub give game a bad name as well which I will never understand. Learning game (still working on it) has converted me from introvert to extrovert. Game dosen't just work on women it works on everybody if you use it properly and to be honest it can make you really happy. Gaming really made me more socially aware and made me realize how people perceived me when I was introverted. I have made a ton of new friends who are awesome because of it and I have banged a few chicks in one year and found my self in a decent LTR since TRP. Before my batting average was 1 chick a year and could not hold an LTR for more then 30 days....sometimes less. Not to mention im below average 5'5, balding. Lifting has helped with this alot but game has also made people see me in a different light as well. You can easily go from that creepy weird guy to that cool outgoing dude that everyone likes. Like everything it all about how much work you decide to put into it. If you quit after the first rejection you will never make it.
blackedoutfast 6y ago
all the incel blackpill bullshit is the complete opposite of the redpill.
incels are worse than bluepill betas. the BPers are idiots but at least they're trying something. incels just want to wallow in their own self-pity and make excuses. that mindset is cancer and it shouldn't be tolerated here at all.
drkinferno72 6y ago
Shit I have aspergers and have managed to get a few gfs. Just sucked when starting out that people have to tell you that girls liked you and you didn't "pick up the signals"
bitchple7se 6y ago
The average 50th percentile dude doesn't bang more than 6 woman. That doesn't seem right, is it long term partners or something?
HarrySach69 6y ago
Amen brother. What really gets me is though is how TRP community is suddenly coming under fire from the media...
natman2939 6y ago
This actually makes perfect sense. Incels almost always have some type of mental or emotional problem that makes them so introverted that they can't stand to talk to people anyway. So because of their own ridiculousness they never had a chance and won't try anything (or should I say they never have a chance because they won't try anything)
wheresMYsteakAt 6y ago
There is no way a top twenty percent man is averaging 15 in a lifetime, I don't care what the study says.. It would be closer to 15 by 12th grade or college. I have a hard time even believing the 6 stat as far as "the average guy" . My cousin is an incel and he's got that number beat and I mean he is the definition of a blue pill beta (paying girls rent while they LJBF them, crying on the phone, text bombing, etc).
[deleted] 6y ago
You think the top 20% of men have banged 15 women by the time they leave high school? That’s absurd.
wheresMYsteakAt 6y ago
I would say a very good chance by highschool or at the latest college.
[deleted] 6y ago
Incels are fucking posers, /u/DownvoteToDisagree. They don't know what the REAL black pill is. Its not a rap pill! Its not a punk pill! Its not a funk pill!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EunWH1VbpA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5ooHJtMsGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmcHPk8_1N8
PhaedrusHunt 6y ago
Black pillers are just lazy and full of self pity.
Fuck 'em.
BobLordOfTheCows 6y ago
When does the green pill come out?
Seriously, there's just red and blue. Everything else falls within a step from one of those two.
GodOfDinosaurs 6y ago
Incels would often caption their posts with the phrase "it's over". You're liable to get banned for expressing that sentiment here.
DiamaExtra 6y ago
TRP is starting to gain some notoriety here in Italy. The thing is, when people refer to "redpillatori" (redpillers) and talk about their ideology... it is totally incel/blackpill/lookist stuff.
This is only partly because it's convenient for detractors to mix all together, but mainly because the selfproclaimed italian "redpill" outlets like forums and Facebook pages are actually incels community.
Freedom2speech 6y ago
So 6 sexual partners in a lifetime is the median?
SkyloRen66 6y ago
At least in MGTOW, the black pillers are vile and miserable fucks that truly hate women and society. It can get quite toxic over there tbh
atheist_terry_jones 6y ago
over for truecels, many of us incels went through a redpill phase. for some of us it is absolutely hopelessly over. if youre a normal looking guy life is easy by comparison.
lifeisweirdasfuck 6y ago
e.g lookism and those forums full of retards
[deleted]