As a public service, will someone post this on youku.com or else upload it as a torrent in Kickass? I am not a PUA or MRA or M-O-U-S-E or whatever, but I have been a public speaking instructor, varsity debater, and a lawyer at the provincial court level. . I agree with some, but not all, of what Roosh says. However, I would really like to see how he was raked over the coals on this one before I can offer any practical advice.

lmao @ Dr. Oz placating the buttertrolls with "I like women of any size"

I will defend the guy a little bit... if you have never been in a situation where literally everyone in the room is primed to hate your guts, then you don't understand how this can mess with you. It is a really primal reaction.

My view was that Roosh felt they were trying to bait him into an emotional reaction, like an angry outburst, and that is why he seems introverted in this clip, because he was choosing his words very carefully.

Oz is alpha as fuck. Or at least a really good debater. There's got to be a term for that little argument, "roosh, we're all messed up", that he threw out in part 4 clip 1 that got everyone cheering. Appeal to emotion?

That slimey motherfucker chewed roosh up, and he should admit it, lol.

Edit: Jesus christ, I got a new nickname for Dr Oz. let's call him the frame thief.

Each time roosh makes a valid point and seems to own frame, Oz will come back with something to appeal to the audiences emotions. Clip 2 pt 2: Roosh, "I'm just asking these questions to find out why you're so screwed up".

Take notes gentlemen. Just not on his health advice.

Actually Dr. Oz wife's is not specially thin: http://www.shape.com/sites/shape.com/files/styles/600x600/public/annoyinghabit.jpg?itok=-Y33IoaP

He was ill prepared. Oz claimed to have 50 papers supporting the notion that fat shaming does not work, but there have not been nearly that many studies. The one with the largest sample was based on survey data and due to the subjectivity of it is not the best example. If he was smart he would have asked Oz to break down the studies and point out exactly how they support the conclusion, then he could have pointed out that correlation is not causation and that there have been no double blind sort of experiments.

There are other factors that also correlate, like having an obese parent, socioeconomic status, ethnicity, gender (regional iirc), TV habits, job/career, education, and more. Yet no one is saying not going to college makes you fatter.

He should have called his bluff. If he knew the data he could have argued his point better.

The clips on Dr. Oz's site (which OP thankfully copied, good job OP) do not represent the entire segment.

Does anyone have a copy of the video they played at the end with the 3 fat women?

We need access to this to review it folks. It was memorable.

"If someone doesn't have the self control to exercise, to watch how they eat.. if they are big on the outside then that is a sign that there are probably some problems on the inside."

Truer words never spoken. I used to be really overweight (near 300 pounds) and lost 80 pounds (I'm really tall so I didn't need to go over that) because I was sick of myself. Yes, I was fat shamed, but that motivated me to do it. It was like a giant middle finger pointing to everyone that talked shit about me, and it felt good.

With that said, I think he is also a bit wrong, because terrible personalities can be on a lot of fit people. But the part that he said, I agree about.

Are the links you gave the whole interview? If so, it was short. Honestly, I just think he didn't interject his view enough. He could have put an argument VERY easily against any of it. I wouldn't say he didn't do his homework as some have... I think, for some reason, it was intentional.

As a side note, this is the first time I've seen him and he doesn't really look like he lifts. I wasn't expecting a musclehead, but I was expecting broader shoulders or something. This isn't to negate him, maybe he's really fucking ripped, I justed expected different.

German here with an "out-of-country" perspective:

• TV personality DrOz is a highly controversial figure himself (src: John Olivers´s show on CC)

• the "interview" was a classic hatchet-job with a totally orchestrated setting: the hero, the villain, the victims (ask a studio crowd of 200 fugly people if they want to side with a fat-shamer...great attempt at TV -journalism) - in Germany they would have had the courtesy of inviting/casting a few pro-fatshamer into their audience

• what does the TV Channel do ? Sell commercials for shitty food. Who is an arch-villain for companies peddling shitty food ? People like Roosh. BTW I thought he looked controlled and engaged - it´s no small feat to keep your shit together in front of cameras

• I think it´s important to go out there and push the message - until it gets outlawed as hate-speech ( next presidency)

• finishing: here is the german Roosh, "leutnant dino" - really a cool guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf3XQ1HLZMs - talking about divorce and settlements

My observations are that he wasn't well prepared, as someone said he didn't do his homework, and he's not as smart on the fly, responding in real time is not the same as being behind his computer with all the time in the world to carefully think what to say. Definitely a missed opportunity.

[deleted]

I don't see the point in fat shaming. If they want to be unhealthy then let them. The only issue I have is when SJWs want men to be attracted to over weight women. Be over weight, I wont say a word or care, but don't tell me what is or isn't attractive.

It's sad to see society as so BP. Everything Roosh said I agreed with.

If you are fat, it is an indicator of your lifestyle.

Skinny women are more attractive.

The obesity epidemic is increasing.

Plus size women are not attractive.

Beauty does not come from the inside.

Honestly these fat feminist women are deluded. Hot women are going to succeed, while they fail, and men who hit the gym are going to succeed, while fat slobs will fail.

I'm not sure why you felt he came across as autistic. The only point where he acted visibly upset/disturbed was toward the end. He seemed to remain calm up until then.

Honestly, he didn't do THAT poorly. Yes, he avoided eye contact, didn't speak confidently at times, etc. but anyone less than a purebred Alpha male would struggle in that scenario. This was also a good reminder as to why men don't watch daytime talk shows lol

Men cannot win against this kind of shit, as long as they are divided. Women will always side with other women, men will not, unless there is some leader that pushes them along which is stronger than everyone else.

In the west there is no such male leader, thus why the male space is divided.

Most redpillers are beta in real life. Roosh is no exception.

Please prove me wrong with video proof.

Ideology aside, Dr. Oz gave us a fuckin clinic in how to destroy somebody on live TV

There was only 1 thing that the wizard said that I agree with: that fat shaming tends to have negative consequences (for women). Roosh's defense against this was to awkwardly ask for the papers, rather than agree and amplify.

What Roosh should have done is tell the truth: that personal change requires both a dissatisfaction with one's current state AND hope for the future. This is Roosh's biggest asset in his writings, that he puts the reader in a state of dissatisfaction while simultaneously giving them the hope required for change.

The wizard does the opposite in order to maintain his business model: he actually reduces the dissatisfaction that his audience has by telling them that they are beautiful, and he offers no hope for a better future. This allows the fat women who watch his show to keep returning for the feels, and buying some of his bullshit products every once in a while to feel productive.

But the fat shaming on ROK is not targeted to women at all. It is targeted at men, so that we know that we don't have to put up with this shit, and that we are not alone in thinking that excess fat is disgusting. We understand that women convert more food intake to fat than muscle (for the ovulation benchmark), that women tend to gain more weight after childbirth, and that genetics plays a large factor. But the push back against the unhealthy fat acceptance movement is a tough pill to swallow for women.

In short, the hens love to hear the wizard crow "fat is beautiful," but all we hear is "quack quack."

Funny how you always get the plus size strong masculine African woman that is the best at presenting the Fat Acceptance message.

The tone was pure intimidation.

A big fat angry African woman... but she's beautiful on the inside? (laugh)

CHARM is what defines beauty on the inside not your ability to project anger.

The words don't match the images... the angry fat African woman is UGLY on the inside AND the outside.

Fat tends to mean a woman is ugly / ugly. ( inside / outside )

Ironically, Dr. Oz and the audience took every jab they could at shaming Roosh. Dr. Oz not only wouldn't let Roosh speak, Oz used exaggerated forceful hand gestures from stopping Roosh speak with it was his turn.

I'd think the viewership would see Roosh as winning because the counter arguments were so bad and emotional in a bad way. Fat chance.

Roosh should study rhetoric more. Perhaps hire Frank Luntz as a consultant -- I believe Frank was behind re-labeling/-branding the "estate tax" as the "death tax." You can't win an argument when you accept another person's loaded terms, enter their arena, and submit yourself to their scrutiny and examination.

Where Roosh lost frame was accepting the term "fat shaming" as the descriptor of his position. He should call it "obesity awareness" instead, and from that platform discuss the problems to society-at-large that obesity causes, including the discontent individuals will necessarily suffer from the loss of their sex appeal. He also neglected to use a slam-dunk argument that would have set Dr. Oz back...

Roosh: "Dr. Oz, you say some men, maybe even millions of them, find fat women attractive, right?"

Oz: "Yes, everyone has their journey, and they are beautiful for who they are."

Roosh: "But that doesn't make them healthy though, right?"

Oz: "Well, we're talking about beauty, not health."

Roosh: "But as a physician you should be just as concerned with obesity as I am; some men find smokers attractive, but that doesn't mean we as a society should say 'smokers are beautiful.' That's irresponsible."

It was pretty malicious of the show to say there was something wrong with roosh's brain. How are you supposed to react when someone say's your arguments are invalid because your brain is messed up. You can't appeal to logic to these people, your only option would be to laugh at their face. Which on TV would come across as you being autistic.

I've noticed this about some of the personalities in the manosphere. In their writing, they send out a powerful message with some insightful observations that clearly took a lot of introspection to reach. But these great writers aren't always as strong in their vocal conversations. They lose frame and can't quite get their point across. It really shows how different these two forms of communication are.

I remember watching part of a purple pill podcast which featured GLO, and he didn't come off as a strong figure to me. I believe he was debating about how the amount of sex partners a woman had impacted their lives. His responses were mostly personal attacks, and he couldn't get his point across well at all. I can't remember how to find the podcast, but I figure one of you may be able to dig it up from my vague description.

Tin foil hat time! Do you think he got paid to just "throw the fight"? It's not like anything he said would matter. The hamster will always hamster, maybe they just said let us win and we will pay you well.

No TV show that makes money off of a certain demographic will then allow a guest to come and shit on them. This is a TV show, not a place for learning.

I will say this. I respect anyone who goes out and puts themselves out there and publicly backs up what they say. The world has far too many people who just tear others down on the internet, but do little productive themselves. Roosh is an author, traveler, created a popular blog, and is followed by thousands of people- which I respect. It also takes balls to go on a TV show to defend ones beliefs that he knew were controversial.

However, at the same time, I think this elucidates the issue that it is far to easy on the internet to create an echo chamber. I actually agreed more, in substance, with Dr. Oz than I did Roosh (although personally I like Roosh far more than Dr. Oz). I think its perfectly fine to point out that fat people are unhealthy and less attractive, but it should never get to the level of the quotes Roosh put out there. He constantly crosses the line of reasonable- and does so with shaming Western women often- and if a community does not self reflect (which the Red Pill does very well- I am less sure about ROK), these types of echo's can get to the point where any half-skilled TV host will easily rip you apart.

Many left wing movements- SJW's, etc- also have the same issue where they live on online echo chambers and produce some profoundly ignorant content.

I didn't think Roosh did that poorly on the show, but he put himself in a position that made him defend some defenseless quotes. If the ROK (or Rooshes followers) are able to self reflect and understand how their message may be interpreted by people with different life experiences than themselves, I think this could have been avoided.

At the end of the day, The Red Pill is still without a charismatic, public leader. (although I am not sure if the community needs or wants one).

Edit: typo*

Roosh to me did just fine.

It didn't matter what he said and how logical his presentation was. He was going to get his head chopped off.

Dr. Oz is saying these things because he is on TV in front of a audience of WOMEN, while his BOSS from behind the scenes watches.

He can't really have a honest debate with Dr. Oz. He was dead from the moment the camera went on.

He held his composure. Watching this made me pissed off and I knew I would have given them the "crazy" that they were seeking like Roll talked about in his Tweets.

Why do we HAVE to listen to just ONE opinion? Why is wrong with a alternative? alternatives are the reason why have different movies, songs, TV shows, different views on race, men, women etc.

Had we just stayed chained to one thought who knows where we would be right now.

Dr. Oz was on his PC fuckery and, I can't be mad at him. He has to play his game too it is what it is.

Roosh was dead from the start. The best he could do was play it cool and stick to his guns.

http://associationofchronos.com/2015/01/25/freedom-for-sale/

50 studies "proving" that shaming doesn't work?

What about the 1 reality where shaming has totally changed or society with regard to smoking, drinking and driving, acceptance of homosexuality, women in the workplace, racial differences, Marijuana usage, etc?

If you show me 50 studies that contradict reality, I will confidently declare them all wrong.

Roosh got Rekt by the landwhale train and the chief-butt-muncher Oz.

One extremely important thing to remember: In the context that Roosh was in, he went in thinking that he would be in a fight. Then, he was greased by the show's producers into thinking that it was going to be a sympathetic interview. In that kind of situation, Roosh had to change gears, while being forced to rethink his strategy, since (per the producers) he was going to be with a sympathetic audience, awaiting the wisdom flowing from his lips-which means that he would have to internally admit that he had made a terrible mistake in expecting a hostile audience. So, with him castigating himself for not taking the correct mental tools with him, and, having mentally discarded his plan of battle, he went in, already humbled and ready to connect with the audience. So, he went in front of the audience expecting friendship and a group willing to learn. Instead, he got killer whales and snarling hyenas. Anybody would be thrown off.

For a good example of this, watch Brotherhood of the Bell, with Glenn Ford. Somewhere after midway through, the protagonist went onto a show like this, and the host gave him a real neckrub to get him to go onto the show. When he got on, everybody, including the host, was yelling at him and calling him a psycho. Youtube it.

I have to give Roosh serious props for putting his face out there and confronting Dr. Oz and the audience the way that he did.

I doubt any of us could have fared better on that interview. I know I couldn't have.

Holding frame against a room of 200 people while being on national TV being demonized requires serious practice. I'm sure over time he will get much better at this.

Why the fuck was he on that show in the first place? I for one think shows like those are not the platform for any manosphere topic at all...

The people watching those shows live in a fucking dream world and you cannot reason with them. Oprah is their god.

I don't care how his frame was, he shouldn't have been on that show, it sickens me, and IMO is not the RP way...

Dr. Oz has recently been getting a lot of heat from doctors wanting him to resign (9 out of 10) from his show and he has even gotten shit from the government. It really is easy to see that this was a desperate move on his part to make himself look like the good guy.

Also, check a recent video on how John Oliver destroys Dr. Oz to see how fast he is falling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TucUMpWWe8A

Yea I guess he just didn't expect it to be such a hate piece and he lost frame

Lurker here. I just finished watching Roosh's response video regarding the Dr. Oz ambush. I've never been a real fan of the dude (I much prefer Rollo's "thinking man's red pill" approach), but I do so very much enjoy his fat-shaming shenanigans.

A few thoughts on his response:

I accept that, after his preliminary conversations with the producers, he genuinely thought the show would at least give him a fair shake. This still strikes me as naive, however. Roosh is unashamedly controversial at the best of times and surely he must have at least considered the very likely prospect of getting fucked like this.

The fact that he didn't have the foresight to anticipate this leads me to believe that he really REALLY deep down believes everything he says to the point that he probably has no concept of how alien his views are to the majority of people out there.

This show was about fat-shaming, but the same applies to Red Pill: feminized society/MSM is nowhere near ready for this shit and our proponents will get buttfucked on TV.

Two words nagged at me during this response video: irony and hamstering. This is a manosphere titan nagging about how he got ambushed (he should have known better) and talking about how his feels and shit. Look, I'm all for fat-shaming, but it's a pretty difficult position to defend without looking autistic and he really should have been better prepared.

He admits that he could work on his public speaking and I agree. However, if you're gonna go into battle and wave the flag on national TV, you had better be prepared, stick to your talking points no matter fucking what and hold frame like a motherfucker in the face of the fatties and Dr Fuckhead.

Both TRP and fat-shaming, controversial as they are, are positions that CAN be rationally and calmly defended, but you can't go in half cocked.

In the circumstances, I find it rather ironic that he's now hamstering on about how he felt (trying to find his "safe space"?! come the fuck on), whereas ultimately this is something he does to those oversensitive cows all the time. As RP I might be able to contextualise his response, but to anyone else this just makes him look even worse.

Debating these clowns is a tactical mistake.

An argument on television is a public sympathy contest, and you have as little chance against a woman in a public sympathy contest as she has against you in unarmed combat.

And even if you win, there's no upside. We're not saving society, here. We have accepted the harsh truth that we cannot do that. It has to save itself.

Feminists, SJWs, entitled landwhales, limpwristed feminist enablers, leftoid pansies, white-guilt profiteers... all of these people thrive on public attention, because manipulating the media gestalt is what they do. They have practiced the art of "making you look like a big meanie" for a long time, and while you may occasionally tempt them to go too far, that's not going to change the mind of much of anyone who didn't already despise whiny human parasites.

There are two real weapons against these mutants:

1. Ignore them.
2. Laugh at them.

Does anyone in my audience agree with you?

camera pans to audience consisting 90% of women, half of them overweight

Man I love television.

I dont really care one way or the other since I'm not really into advocating for redpill or the manosphere but keep in mind, anyone who has ever been in front of the camera can tell you that it is a thing unto itself.

Talk show hosts are the professional body builders of the TV world. They spend thousands of hours in front of the camera, some guy who hasnt spent anywhere near that amount of time is going to be utterly out classed and at the mercy of the pros around him. A guy could be the most confident dude in the universe but fold in front of the camera. Its just a different environment.

The level of frame one would require in order to go through this scenario as a winner is far beyond 99% of what any of us will EVER achieve. We are talking about a team of full-time professionals in the art of fucking people up in public preparing a script, audience and overall situation to make you their meal.

The only mistake I can point out on his side is the fact that he sat there for too long. If I were in his position, I would have just said that was not the kind of "interview" I had signed up for, wished their fat yet beautiful asses the best of luck, stood up and left.

As a fit woman watching this made me cringe.

Everyone there is so shocked, surprised and in disbelief at the claim that the majority of men don't like fat chicks. Oz can spout all the feel-good crap he wants, and those women can temporarily feel the glow of being together against that huge jerk they had as a guest, but the reality of their lives will, as always be undeniable. No man of halfway decent SMV will ever touch them. I'm sure some schlub will, but they'll never enjoy the same kind of man that more attractive women can get.

Go ahead and look however you want, ladies. That's not the point. The point is that you give up your right to complain about the lack or quality of male attention when you're taking up an extra half seat on an airplane.

I'm in China and youtube and the Dr. Oz vid won't load properly so I haven't seen the footage. The impression I got from what I have read is that he was walking a fine line between trying to make his points, getting interrupted, and if he became assertive there would never be an end to the accusations of how angry, aggressive, hateful and violent he is.

Jesus fuck, that was hard to sit through. What a complete dog and pony show. They effectively turned him into a scapegoat.

Seemed quite composed, considering he was in the lion's den.

You'll see him loosen up during clips 3 & 4, especially when confronted by some porkers.

Wow Dr. Oz is so full of shit but you can't blame him. He's being paid by a Black "Curvy" Woman - Orpah.

I dont totally agree with roosh when he says people who are fat are ugly on the inside. It is true definitely to a degree, but I have met people who are a joy to speak with that are overweight. I think it has to do more with ones self-esteem then the actual weight. Of course, generally speaking I'm sure people that are obese are harder to be around then healthy individuals.

i dont know why this is getting so much attention

he was literally paid money to get on the show. that could be his only reason. did he gain extra members from doing Dr Oz? fuck no

was anyone ever going to change their mind on 'fat is beautiful'? no.

It's the same script as oprah's other bitchboy, dr phil. Bring someone 'evil' on, have them typify the thing this particular episode is about, and cash in on the fat woman audience who feels they got justice at the hands of dr phil/dr oz

they did the same shit with the bumfights guy, the same thing with 'dick masterton'. was anyone going to watch and say "wow i thought bumfights was dumb, but now i think its actually good"? no

so they had him act it up and used quotes to get a response from the audience like "rather die than sleep with a woman over 150lbs"

the crazy thing is it's getting attention(meaning money for video clicks) outside the sjw mom audience like here

This isn't surprising to me after seeing how Julien bitched out. It doesn't take a lot of balls to pontificate on the web.

It's easy to hold frame on your self-produced website geared toward like-minded men. Unfortunately for Julien and now Roosh, their frame is weak when put in front of the American viewer.

While there are many men on the manosphere who are naturally RP but needed to fill in some cracks, we'd be remiss to forget that a lot of these "top RP thinkers" were socially awkward pussies in the day.

They're lovers, not fighters.

As for Roosh's excuses on why he couldn't maintain frame? Don't care for it; he knew what he was getting into. Uncomfortable situations are par for the course for the unplugged man.

Learn from his failure, have real conviction, and hold your fucking frame.

Dr. Oz has been in the news frequently because he is quack..

The audience is disgusting. Instead of trying to lose weight they make excuses. Logic not even once.

Methinks we are doing Monday morning quarterbacking here.

How would any one of us handled that appearance? A hostile host, and a hostile audience of 200+ people. Wh8ch one of them was he supposed to make eye contact with? I think he made plenty with Dr Oz, and staring down a 200+ person mob is easier said than done.

for comparison
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0xoKiH8JJM#t=2m24s

'what was that?'

Im probably an outlier on this point, but Roosh never really impressed me as one of the "top" masters of Game. I followed his work for a couple of years and there is an undertone of unhappiness / weakness to him.

It is easier for me to identify with guys like RSD Tyler; outgoing, positive, and full of energy.

OK, not for nothing but I’m kind of put off by Roosh trying to sell this interview as an ‘ambush’. He’s not dumb, he’s written more about how the media perceives the manosphere than most MRAs (who just disown it when convenient). He knows damn well he’s a firebrand and is called the internet’s most notorious misogynist which he relishes. I honestly have no problem with any of that. He’s been part of the backbone of the manosphere for a decade.

But I have to pause when he tries to sell this “massacre” as something he didn’t see coming when he called out Dr. Oz over 2 years ago:

http://www.returnofkings.com/7074/dr-oz-is-a-pussy

He needed to sell this as a “surprise” because it makes his involvement in what had to have been a lucrative gig more plausible to the people he knew would criticize him for it – namely the manosphere.

What’s troubling is that he didn’t need to sell it like that. I’d have far more respect for him if he’d just owned up to knowing what he was getting into. He should’ve hired a media coach, but for what he had to know what was going to happen he didn’t drop things too badly.

He knows about Julian Blanc, he knows how the media spun the Eliot Rodger incident. Hell, this is the guy who gave Tucker Max a rash of shit when he went public and changed his song.

I still have a great deal of respect for Roosh, he's been a manosphere staple for a decade, but he didn't need to sell it like that.

Nothing was accomplished with that interview. If human private thought ever becomes hack-able, Roosh can leave his privacy controls off, and see the concept of extinction in action. As far as Oz, guess he isn't knowledgable re: empirical data showing ignoring is more powerful than attending.

you should read his side of what happened

As a comparison, here's a video of Roosh on a Urkranian talk show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2INybBpXkM

Much calmer and smoother then the Dr. Oz interview, which indicates that whatever happened behind the scenes really shattered his frame.

You don't walk into the lion's den. Ever.

Not sure if this was Roosh's intention, but in some ways, coming off as a weak nerd might've been better for our cause. Normal people see this and go, "Wow... these fat whores are getting worked up over a man like THIS?" See also: That really, painfully unfunny MRA skit on SNL that Lena Dunham did.

He posted a youtube video talking about it. They buttered him up before filming then ambushed him on set once they began filming. It was all very deliberate.

He needs to take a public speaking class.

Roosh handled it really well, I think. I'm impressed. He looks reasonable and intelligent and maintained frame. He was calm, despite Oz's underhanded insults and the fact that he barely got a chance to say anything at all.

Maybe he didn't look at Oz because Oz is such a disgusting white knight who lacks any integrity or sense of fair play or equal time. I don't like to look at people I don't respect either.

"My reaction to appearing on the Dr. Oz show" (Roosh V) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_vUQYc3lf8

I do not think it was that bad how people seem to make it. Problem is TV is for feels not for logic so you always loose or at least look boring when being reasonable.

Roosh did a bad job. Armchair quarterbacking it, we can all see ways he could have done better. That said, I don't expect him to be our champion.

Note: TBH, I'm not really for fat shaming beyond a counter to the horror that is fat acceptance. So maybe my opinion is that of an outsider.

Autistic is not an insult. Don't go to that level of immaturity.