Disclaimer: The opinions shared here are all mine. Take this for what it is. An opinion put forth to initiate discussion and challenge our viewpoints in an attempt to understand reality. As with everything, keep an open mind but make your own judgement. Lastly, if this post feels disjointed at any point, it is because it is an amalgamation of various comments I've posted. Let me know if you find anything jarring and I'll try my best to streamline it. I look forward to the discussions.
Where have all the good men gone? To understand the present dilemma, we need to understand how evolution works. In essence, evolution does not give a fuck about your feelings, your reality, fairness, justice or any other man made concept that has furthered civilization and has brought us to this point. Nature, by its design, is chaotic. Men created civilization as an attempt at order and as an attempt to overcome the chaotic nature to the best of our abilities. So, first of all, we, as men, need to understand that we have been asking the wrong questions. Women these days are trash not because they are not being conservative or being too liberal or feminist. They are just being their own chaotic natural self. You see more of it these days because there is not many man made institutions left to reign in the chaotic nature of women. Family, society, neighbors, religion, social gathering places like Church etc were all man made institutions to bring people in together to create unity and to reign in chaos to the best of their ability. Feminism, by design, was an attempt at chipping away at these institutions. Mind you, feminism is not the only attempt to bring chaos back in. Who would benefit by this and how is not the topic of this post and we will not go there.
Evolution weeds out the weak and culls the herd in an attempt to make the species stronger. If the species goes extinct because of this brutal process, then that species was not fit to stay on this earth. Which brings us to the nice guys, single moms and supposed red pill women who want to improve themselves after their mistakes in an attempt to redeem themselves.
As u/lewiscross has explained before, what makes a man good to society is not what makes a man good to nature and by extension, women. Fuck all the noise about you having to be nice to everyone and the MGTOW concept of withdrawing yourself from dating or women to fix this mess. What is the advantage for you in not fucking a girl even in this toxic mess? You, as a man, was designed by nature to fuck as much as possible and pass down your genes as much as possible. You sexually euthanizing yourself only helps one kind of people. People who are willing to procreate at any cost even if they are not supposed to procreate according to society's standards. Thugs, dead beat losers, narcissists and the psychopaths. Who do you think designed this dating system? Women? A woman gets absolutely nothing getting pumped and dumped from puberty till menopause. That lie of her being so strong, self reliant and independent does not overcome the fact that she is a cum dumpster. A woman's nature is to submit to a man. She won't submit to any man, of course. She will only submit to a man who can make her submit. Your role, as a man, assigned by nature, is to make a woman submit to you. If you're a nice guy, you're running rogue of the role that nature assigned you. This mess is not the fault of women. They don't know shit. They are reactive. Their entire strategy in life and love is passive. It is our fault. Men fucked this up. Especially, us good guys considering we are the majority at given society at any given time.
Single moms are the equivalent of nice guys. To nature, their strategy is the same as that of the nice guys. Whereas the nice guys have proven to be unable to play their natural role of the dominant guy, single moms and cc riders have proven themselves to be unable to submit to a man for any reasonable amount of time. This is the fundamental reason men despise single moms. Not because she made wrong decisions or was immature. An 18 year old girl being immature, innocent and clueless is adorable to men, if only she submits to him and seeks his guidance. Single moms have not only been immature, they have no innocence left after getting pumped and dumped, are still clueless of their predicament and worst of all, was unable to find a man worthy of submitting herself to. Is it any wonder men figure out that she won't submit to him as well? Although there is enormous societal pressure these days (especially from women) to make single moms look all respectable and accepted, men know deep down in their balls the true nature of these degenerates just as women know in their gut that nice guys are not a good option for her survival.
Now, this brings us to the concept of red pill women and the examination of sexual strategies of both genders. The phenomenon of red pill women, women teaching themselves how to get a man, sounds good in theory but is not only impractical in this day and age, it is just against nature. RPW is an interesting thing. These women are (for the most part) not naturally submissive women or completely rotten. They are mostly women who were rotten but decided to embrace their natural self. In that sense, they are the Frankenstein's monster. Now, let us consider the platform of RPW for what it is. Rpw is nothing but what would have been grandma's advice and elder family women's advice in the old days. Only these days, instead of relying on women who knew her, cared about her and wanted to see her happy, women have to rely on random strangers who have been through the hell fire of feminism and heartbreak to shape her strategy in the hopes of getting a man even these women were too late to get. The reason you see a lot of bad advice, hamstering, dissonance etc are precisely because of this. A lot of the advice there stems from their own frustrations, failures, disappointments and insecurities in their life.
A fish cannot teach you how to catch fish. In general, the strategy of a man, in love, is active. He has to figure everything out. He needs to get his mind straight before he can even hope to have his life or his household straight. He's the leader. The strategy of women, in love, is passive. All she has to do is be receptive and submit. All the hoopla about finding a good man (in rpw and especially in various examples we see in whereareallthegoodmen sub) is just them complicating their true nature either because of outside influence like feminism or their own innate delusional self worth. All the standard she thinks she has is her just justifying to herself what kind of man she would be comfortable submitting to. The problem these days is that a lot of bottom level women think they're worthy of top tier men and convince themselves that they will only submit to those unattainable men. You can see this in all ranges of women these days from the cock carousal riders, single moms to the red pill women to the bottom of the barrel cat ladies.
It should be apparent now that the strategy of men building themselves and women just submitting are very different. To build yourself up, to truly become a man, you have to overcome your ego and then build everything from there. Whereas a woman's strategy starts with her ego, her self perceived smv, her self worth and what she thinks she deserves and finally the way to get close to what she thinks she deserves. Rpw advice is not a replacement to the good old fashioned grandma advice. It never will be. And it can never hope to reset women back to their natural, submissive self after feminism has poisoned the well as most of the women in rpw still have the remnants of the poison in their system themselves. Innocence, the one truly valuable quality in woman, once lost is impossible to obtain. And that, in essence, is what they are trying to do. That goes against nature. I do not think that it's a woman's responsibility to make herself submit. It is man's responsibility to make her submit. As soon as a man takes charge, sets the rules and enforce them, she will submit. She will submit to a man who is man enough to make her submit. This is infinitely better than women, after being poisoned by the well of feminism, hoping to make themselves submit.
If the goal of RPW is to submit to a guy who is already aware of this dynamic, then they are not doing anything really as he already is in charge. He will make her submit. If their goal is to submit to a guy unaware of this and hope to make themselves submissive so that he can lead, it is going against nature and it is not sustainable in the way nature intended it to be. The power, once again, resides in the woman to make herself submit for as long as she desires to in this feminist world. This is not as natural as a man building himself up and knowing how to make a woman submit and enforcing it.
There's a reason why civilizations restricted their women and why they even enforced child marriages. A man can, by and large, improve himself through his failures and mistakes. That's how we built anything. Women, as a gender, have never done that. That is why there is no great feminist civilization that dominated everyone in the history. They do not know how to deal with soul crushing defeats. They are not used to self analyzing and course correcting. They do not have a brotherhood that has their back. They double down because they cannot overcome their petty egos.
Look at Sweden. Bunch of post wall, unattractive women inviting in young Muslim men so that they can get fucked. To feel the thrill of submission. That is what is natural to a woman. Submitting to a man who she thinks is worthy of submitting to. I've met some girls who were plain mean but were sweet to certain men. I've been that guy a few times myself. As soon as she feels your strength, be it physical or the way you present yourself, every women will submit. The degree indeed differs but the dynamic is the same.
As I mentioned earlier, the goal of civilization was to provide direction. To create order so that we can escape chaos. Because that's what nature is. Chaos. Look at any ghetto anywhere and the one thing you see is that they don't have a central authority figure. That is the key difference between a ghetto and a mafia. Structure. Civilization made sure women remained innocent and men did not have to deal with chasing after women and focus that energy on building. We had a tried and tested system and in our arrogance, we fucked it up. We threw it away and now we're looking at nature. Chaos. As always, this needs to get worse before it gets better. Order will come internally after total ruination or it will come externally where another civilization takes over. There has been no other way out in history.
I've said this here before but it bears repeating. The current dating is not to the advantage of women. A woman gets nothing in getting pumped and dumped day after day. More often than not, she's getting random hits of dominance from piece of shit men who are no good at anything. The current dating is designed to benefit the top 10% men. He can have his pick if only he's ok with losing some of the advantages a civilization would give him. A family, kids, a loving wife is the trade off for pumping and dumping hundreds of women. You might never sire children to further your genetic line, which is the fundamental goal of fucking, but hey... you can fuck those bar sluts all you want. Until men realize that this is a quest for fools gold, nothing will change. And change is going to come from the bottom 90% of men getting fed up and fucking shit up or from the outside through an invading civilization.
I do not give credit to the idea that women fucked everything up or can fix any of this by trying to put the genie back in the bottle. Women are reactionary. Always. Feminism is only a sign of weak men giving away their hard earned power. Women in any civilization demand more benefits after it reaches a level of security. Not because they deserve it but because they think they do. It is a man's duty as a leader to say no. A king does not grant every wish of his people. That would make for a shitty kingdom. And that is what we are in now. So, the question of our generation is not the narcissistic, self centered bleating of "Where are all the good men?" from women. It is that what have we, as good men, done to fix this shit? What can we do? What should we do?
Every empire, civilization, company goes through several phases in its lifetime. Building phase, expansion phase, maintenance phase and the downfall. We, as a civilization, are at the last stage. Instead of waiting for the eventual hard reset, we must start the reset ourselves. Make conscious decision to influence your own sphere of life. Be a positive presence. Be a leader. Take charge. Reward and punish based on actions. Historically, there has never been a better system than patriarchy. We need to go back to the build stage before we are forced to. That is what we as good men should be doing. For if we don't, we will be replaced by men who are willing to build their families and societies. That is how evolution works.
Edit: Please do read the comments for discussions. Better yet, participate so that we can expand on this theory.
H8CourtshipALot217 6y ago
Charles Sledge has a great blog that discusses a lot of this and other topics
usernameintensifies 6y ago
A million dollars says this means the Jews.
moorekom Mod 6y ago
There are only two categories of people as far as I'm concerned. People with power who dictate the rules and those without who follow. And most people with power will do anything to maintain that power. Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists have all behaved the same when it comes to committing atrocities. No one group is different from any other.
[deleted] 6y ago
A woman's nature is to submit to a man. She won't submit to any man, of course. She will only submit to a man who can make her submit. Your role, as a man, assigned by nature, is to make a woman submit to you.
Fair enough. Good luck with that though when all she has to do is call 911 and then you're in jail for the weekend, regardless of who started what.
IntrovertedMagma 6y ago
Thank you for taking the time to write this awesome piece. I have always thought that men should not spend their time chasing WAHMYN, instead they should spend their time building their careers and thus building their civilization.
I see men spending countless hours at gyms and learning game just to get the attention of WAHMYN.. this is not healthy. You see men choosing lucrative career-paths not because of their passion but because that's what WAHMYN like. Again, this is not a healthy way to build civilization. Men should focus on careers they are passionate about and not on chasing WAHMYN.
And the internet is making everything faster, including the deterioration of the western civilization. WAHMYN standards are getting higher and higher because they have so many options online and we are getting closer and closer to the 80/20 rule. The majority of the male population is becoming more and more undesirable to WAHMYN. And this is very dangerous; why would any man contribute to a civilization that doesn't see him worthy of female attention??? Why would any man contribute to a civilization if he has no family, kids or wife???
I am certain the western civilization is going to fall around the year 2050, if not sooner.
[deleted] 6y ago
I think it's already fallen to be honest. The question of whether a man would contribute to civilisation with no family/kids/wife is an interesting one and brings to mind Fight Club... I'd say define 'Contribute' because unless hes super wealthy he's gonna have to have a job... society will choose for him to contribute... whether he intends to or not... though he can certainly slack off.
moorekom Mod 6y ago
Fight club is indeed a good example, but it showed you the negative end of the spectrum. But, the concepts are all there. There are a lot of red pill gems in that story. But, instead of self improvement, tyler advocates self destruction. This sub and various other manosphere places are an example for the opposite end of that. Men are builders. We build each other up. Women are takers. If you don't decide what you'll give her, she'll decide for herself what she wants to take from you. You need not have to build a family if that is not to your interest. Personally, I would recommend you to do so with a worthy girl in the right way. Make her chase you, be the leader, do not get married etc etc. As a man, your evolutionary purpose is to pass your genes down. Fucking a hundred girls is just a natural approach to ensure that. Monogamy, while robbing you of your prerogative to fuck different girls, provides the focus to concentrate on building yourself up and to concern yourself with something other than pussy. Regardless of having a family or not, you can still be a leader. You can help your community, your family, your friends, your brotherhood etc etc. And when you become a leader, you'll find that you don't need to chase women. They'll start chasing you.
[deleted] 6y ago
From a MGTOW perspective. None of my beliefs are meant to offend, belittle or otherwise make people uncomfortable and i welcome any conflicting ideas or beliefs.
"The MGTOW concept of withdrawing yourself from dating or women to fix this mess. What is the advantage for you in not fucking a girl even in this toxic mess?"
People sometimes misunderstand what MGTOW actually is - so let me just clarify briefly. We do not seek to fix this mess at all! We are at a stage in our beliefs wherein there is no decent fix for this issue, as it is an issue pertaining to a womans nature and this problem can only be resolved through a strict islamic approach to women. Instead of working towards a solution we choose to withdraw from the sexual market place and go our own way, unlike MRA's (mens rights activists) who are trying to change things for the better.
What is the advantage?
Well, from my viewpoint the advantages would be :
1.No exposure to STD's.
2.No exposure to hypergamy [Toxic women femininity]. In my opinion a woman will move both up and down the ladder when it comes to branch swinging, this to me is more disgusting than if the latter was true. Why date someone who is designed to look for more suitable mates whilst in a relationship (Could even be down the ladder for some homeless mans penis) and constantly test your strength (shit tests as per The Red Pill), even if you pass they will never stop. Screw the mental game olympics i have better things to do with my time.
3.No exposure to marriage laws wherin upon divorce a woman will recieve 50% of your assets. Custody of children? Does not matter if the man is in a better position to take care of the children and this tends to go in favour of the woman (80% + of the time).
Stress relief (no constant nagging in your ear or added stress from the responsibility of taking care of another human being - which is a LOT especially after the children are born. Stress lowers your lifespan and attributes lots of stress to bodily and mental functions.
More money in your pocket - women are the most expensive thing out there to maintain. Sex dolls are much more efficient.
"You, as a man, was designed by nature to fuck as much as possible and pass down your genes as much as possible."
Yeah i have seen this dogmatic "It is natural so it must be good" kind of argument before. People lose credibility if they think i'm going to reproduce or default to behaviours that are inherently illogical just because my weiner gets hard sometimes. You don't have to follow the path that is laid out by nature, if everyone did that we would still be fighting each other for our mates and would be extremely uncivilised. Be the exception, rise above!
"This mess is not the fault of women. They don't know shit. They are reactive. Their entire strategy in life and love is passive. It is our fault. Men fucked this up. Especially, us good guys considering we are the majority at given society at any given time."
I do actually agree with you, believe it or not. Though it is through natural design that these problems were able to exist in the first place - men actually treated women like shit in the beginning (which worked absolute wonders for the state of society), it was only when women were given the same rights as men that the societal condition began to crumble. The leader role was passed from the men to the women and at that moment it was all downhill. Make no mistake that it is mans fault for allowing women to hold the reins but people are ignorant and times do indeed change (eventually). I have zero hatred in my heart for women and this is just how i see the issue unfolding.
"You sexually euthanizing yourself only helps one kind of people."
The thing is we honestly could not care less about missing the access to a wet hole semi-regularly. Additionally, the world is already over populated so birthing less children would be a good thing to society, from a morality lens people are biologically designed to look out for themselves before they look out for other people. This is us looking out for ourselves but not in a selfish fashion - there is a difference between useful self serving behaviour and selfish, girls will be able to manage without our cocks and money. The really average guys can have what they so desperately crave, goodluck bottom 80%!
"A woman gets absolutely nothing getting pumped and dumped from puberty till menopause. That lie of her being so strong, self reliant and independent does not overcome the fact that she is a cum dumpster."
Yes! You can thank modern feminism for instilling the belief that : "Youth is to have fun and have sex with all kinds of different men" Then when they eventually get married it is all downhill (ever wonder why the rate of divorce is so high? There are other variables but this is a good one to talk about.) They are a completely ruined product by the time they get to age 40 which is variable but known as "The wall".
Monogamy VS Polygamy
"A woman's nature is to submit to a man. She won't submit to any man, of course."
Shit dude that's what you think. It could easily be a man of lower quality to yourself that ends up being branch swung to, women just have a lower ability to identify value when they are younger. It's all about the looks ... or the ripped bodies... when they get older there is this massive shift towards long term relationships and MONEY is just such an important decider. All the nice guys that women denied when they were younger chasing chads are now offered their time with a used up shell of a previously young, beautiful woman.
Basically what i'm saying is that when younger they are equally likely to swing downwards, wheras with age their positive qualities in a man shift to the opposite direction.
moorekom Mod 6y ago
The problem I have with MGTOWs is this. A man giving up after having tried is one thing. Exhaustion is reasonable and understandable. You can not convince a boxer who was just knocked out to get in the ring immediately. But he has to eventually. Because he is a boxer. We are, for better or worse, men. Just because we don't feel like fighting doesn't mean we can escape the fight. We need to be proactive if we want even a chance at winning. We don't know when we are going to get a bachelor tax next. It's not if. It's a matter of when. Then what? Why not fight against this shit now instead of just checking out? If you don't feel like fighting for this society, go somewhere else where it is ok to start a family and shape your family there. You are not obligated to make your country better if there is no incentive in it for you. You giving up is a passive strategy. And passive strategy will only give control over to the more aggressive players. All this being said, my main problem with MGTOW is that it gives sanctuary to people who have never tried/ who never want to try/ who are too intimidated to try a comfortable excuse. Too scared to go talk to that girl? They're all hypergamous bitches anyway. Society is shit? Enjoy the decline. We need more men. In my view, MGTOW is a stop gap solution to developing yourself into something better. But MGTOW has a tendency to attract people who don't want to take any action. I know this because a good friend of mine is exactly like this.
MRAs are another curious thing. There is no way they are going to win because they are operating under the rules that this feminist society has created. The minute you say you want equality with someone, you've indirectly agreed that the other party is better than you. You are not going to reverse that frame easily. You do not change a society by changing the laws. No, you change the society first and the laws get changed right after. I feel that this has escaped MRAs to some extent. They are trying to deal with women the same way they deal with men. That will never work.
As for the advantages of MGTOW:
2.//No exposure to hypergamy. //
Aka Female nature. There's no escaping it.The only way you can win is to step up to be your male natural self. Again, I understand that this is indeed exhausting. But life is too. Just because we want to be happy and content all the time does not mean we get to enjoy it. As with everything in life, we need to create it. If we don't, someone will create the frame we will be living in. That is where we are already.
1 and 3: Just because one society is shit does not mean another one is the same. If you're not willing to take matters in your hands on yours, go somewhere where they already are ok. Have better standards. If you can't find what you like in your society, get girls from another society. Do not marry. Why operate under the constrains of someone else's rules? Live in a place where you can have the upper hand. No common law marriage states. Make sure you spend enough time with the child. Build your reputation. Is this hard work? Yeah. But don't we work hard for everything else in our life too? Did you get that job you have through hard work or was it just given to you? If you're willing to do it for a job, why not for a family? Your job, ultimately and from an evolutionary perspective, does not matter. Your evolutionary purpose is to procreate. It does not matter if you fuck 1 girl or a 100, if you create one child as a result of either, your end result is the same. Men are the builders. We do need to do this even if we don't feel like it. If you don't want to follow the path laid out by nature, I understand. And I agree that no one can stop you. But do understand you're still playing by the rules of nature. Win or lose. If you win, you get to pass down your lineage and shape the future by a tiny amount. If you lose, your lineage gets eradicated. Do you who a hero is? Most times, a hero is a guy who sacrificed his evolutionary prerogative for the benefit of the society. Even though he wins society, he has (most of the time) failed nature. Again, if you don't care about it then more power to you. But, I hope you do understand the cost. Someone is going to shape society one way or another. My plea is that it should be us.
Women do not value men the same way men value themselves. They value domination. What you see as a downward swing, they look as up in the domination hierarchy. The reason she goes for that beta is because she knows he is better than her financially. The trick is in her making him believe he is lucky to have her.
[deleted] 6y ago
This is a very valuable discussion and i hope we both get something from this! :D
1 and 3: Just because one society is shit does not mean another one is the same. If you're not willing to take matters in your hands on yours, go somewhere where they already are ok. Have better standards. If you can't find what you like in your society, get girls from another society.
AWALT - make no mistake, woman in other countries are very similar. The amount of "Christian girl cheated on me"posts i read is also equally disturbing - only country that would have a big impact on the quality of women would be places like Saudi Arabia (tyranny). The standards thing is true to some extent - yes men should not be fucking women who are clearly unpaid whores but sometimes the N+1 identifier just messes your plan up, that innocent looking white girl? Maybe she is more sexually promiscuous than the butch looking white girl. There is no accurate way to tell!
Japans society is highly economically based and their girls are some of the most hypergamous in the world. Hell they even have "herbivore men" in Japan which is basically the equivalent of MGTOW, as they should be.
Then what? Why not fight against this shit now instead of just checking out?
To be completely honest i do not believe that female nature is a fixable issue without a tyrannical approach to relationships - and, this approach is inherently lacking in morality. Yes we COULD use the subtle manipulations of TRP (aggressive) ideas in order to sway the chances in our favour - lots of people try this strategy because they imagine female nature to be some fixed variable that can be influenced.
Unfortunately, the more aggressive ideas are often the most effective when it comes to achieving a "successful" long term relationship or marriage. Here is a sample of a post on TRP that received 500 up-votes (detailed manipulation techniques. They start off pretty innocent but you can see how one would need to be a full-blown sociopath in order to implement these solutions.
1.Making people addicted to you or reinforcing intermittently
2.How be likeable/Use favoritism
3.The frame of "I don't need you, you need me"
4.Avoiding conflicts that you can not benefit from
5.Discovering people's real emotions and motivations
6.Dealing with adversity
7.Manipulating a person against their will
(well that was unexpected!)
Things like this are the MOST effective way to maintain a woman's interest, prevent cheating and prevent branch-swinging. Looks like the only cost to do this is the use of strong manipulation over your partner - we should all be able to agree that this is an incorrect use of power and should be avoided at all costs. Just as a sad exit on this i would like to note that woman tend to manipulate much more than men do, there are many variables but some would include being physically weaker (develops social skills over physical prowess / muscle mass - which in turn leads to exposure of manipulation techniques) and conversing in a female based dominance hierarchy which is actually much stronger than the male one - woman get put in their place all the time by other women (The males base value on a fundamentally different level than women do, where a person is not based solely on superficial details but their potential value.) Only things that a woman will gauge in another woman is : "Is she more attractive than me" or "Is she smarter than me" or "Is she more empathetic than me" or "Is she better than me" etc. Now not all woman are at this level of superficiality and that deserves to be acknowledged - yes, there could be the rare unicorn girl who does not exhibit these traits at all BUT it is not worth looking for this girl because the costs far outweigh the benefits (To someone who is not blinded by love) and would be extremely hard to find.
IMHO this girl does not exist, it is a story that men are told by a gynocentric society in order to reinforce the shackles on men as subservient beings. Do you believe in the traditionalist good christian girl? I have had my mind blown over and over again by what these kinds of girls are willing to do to another human being. Clearly this is because female nature is a constant - BUT people just do not accept this depressing notion.
Everything is fine and then BOOM the entire relationship crumbles.
Oh there is no winning against feminism - only a war would potentially influence social standings, even then there is M.A.D (mutually assured destruction) from nuclear bombs so it very unlikely that reasonable countries would engage in one. No the curve of feminism is perpetual unless a strict set of tyranny is placed over women - which will never happen again. Men fucked the world by treating women equally and in turn have handed the reins to the opposing sex. I'm quite serious in saying society is doomed (without the pessimism) - females are illogical and will always follow feminism as it is more beneficial to them than logical thinking. Circular logic has enabled women to have more societal power than men, gynocentricism is enforced at an early age to disallow any thoughts to deviate from the standard "Marriage is great"! :) "I really want to be lucky enough for a 9-5 job to support my family!" :) "Women are never wrong!" :) "It does not matter is she cheats on me!" :)
We are approaching a societal doomsday, 1984 style.
"If you don't feel like fighting for this society, go somewhere else where it is ok to start a family and shape your family there."
This directly refers to feminism but does not account for a females nature. It is a pipe dream in the MGTOW community for a man to go to an anti-woman country like Saudi Arabia in the hopes of having a wonderful marriage, but it just does not work without being a sociopath.
"All this being said, my main problem with MGTOW is that it gives sanctuary to people who have never tried/ who never want to try/ who are too intimidated to try a comfortable excuse. Too scared to go talk to that girl? They're all hypergamous bitches anyway."
Holy crap, YES.
Alright so first thing here would be to note the crossover with Incels. There are two different types of celibates : incels (involuntary celibates) and cels (voluntary celibates) - the INCELS take the 80/20 rule to heart and believe there is zero chance of them having a successful encounter with a member of the opposite sex. Incels have deemed themselves inadequate and unable to ever solve this problem, they come from a place of pessimism and defeat.
Voluntary celibates on the other hand have chosen willingly to not engage in sex with woman. Monks are among those who choose this path along with only some MGTOW's, like i mentioned before not every MGTOW is a celibate. You have people that pump and dump , people who date (with restrictions on cohabitation,marriage and children) and people who just jack one off every now and again.
But back to the question of it harbouring the incels - yes, i agree that it does. Though they used to have a shelter for their ideas until /r/incels was deleted for supposed, dangerous threats. The vast majority of MGTOW's are divorcees and really just pity these kinds of people (at least i do) but we can't really just not let them share ideas. The most violent ideas posted on MGTOW tend to be posted by incels.
"As with everything in life, we need to create it. If we don't, someone will create the frame we will be living in. That is where we are already."
To be quite frank i'm already creating the frame that i live in. Most of my time is spent on advancing my skill set (programmer), in order to live a fun life where there is no concern of finances. Friendship is very important to me and i seek to find people that i can depend on in the future (even friendship with girls). Make no mistake i pump and dump girls but am still able to have close - female friends.
IMO people should seek to improve themselves instead of settling for the baseline of a stable job,family and friends.
We do need to do this even if we don't feel like it. If you don't want to follow the path laid out by nature, I understand. And I agree that no one can stop you. But do understand you're still playing by the rules of nature
You could say these lines to 100 different people and they could give you 100 different answers. Personally, i think we as humans have reached a point where there is enough intellectual capacity to decide our own path without the
pressure of natures prerogative. I do care about the direction of society but happily engaging in relationships and marriage is NOT a solution - if anything it makes the problem worse, people who truly care about these things would be MRA's and we can see how much success they are having (pretty much zero.)
What is the intrinsic value in being remembered after you die? You won't be able to remember if people remembered you - it all just goes black, one could be a loser in life but death is the great equator as it comes for us all.
this is too long (max: 10000) :(
moorekom Mod 6y ago
Ok. Here's the reply.
Awalt might be true, but it is dependent on a lot of factors such as societal pressure, family values, reputation with friends and neighbors etc. This is why the approach of countries like Saudi work. They provide structure even if it is oppressive. And this is also why girls from strict third world countries turn into the biggest whores when they get to US. The factors just changed.
Japan encourages women to stay home and take care of the kids and household. It is very acceptable to look for a guy who is wealthy or who has the potential to be. When people talk about awalt, they talk about it is an undeniable fact of life devoid of any nuances. That butch looking white girl might have indeed less N count than that submissive Asian girl and the only way you'll ever know how to distinguish that is with your gut. And you can only get that gut instinct by going through shit and learning through your mistakes. Men, throughout ages have done that. That's how we improve. Giving up never solved anything. Just because women subscribe to this same philosophy these days trying to ape men does not make it an invalid strategy for men.
I will play the devil's advocate here for a minute. This does present the issue of a lot of girls being pumped and dumped. At worst, you might have to practice on one generation and act quick to catch a younger generation girl. Yes, this fucks over a lot of women. They didn't do anything really wrong except to be dumb followers to an idiotic cult, but in the grand scheme of things they are as much a necessary fodder compared to any beta right now or any soldier at any time. Once we make it clear that this is the strategy guys we will use, you will have girls self regulating themselves pretty fast. And don't think this is a psychopathic or radical idea. Back in patriarchy days, the reason girls got married early was for two reasons. One was to secure provisions. The other was that if she didn't, she was fair game.
A guy wouldn't try to seduce someone's wife. But a divorced girl or a single girl was his to take. Men are the aggressive gender. We should start exercising that biological imperative. As you've seen with the feminist era, men haven't been able to be good defenders. I suggest we should change the strategy. Of course, this will have to go both ways. Guys who fuck someone's wife need to be punished too. What kind of punishment they deserve might be up for discussion, but we cannot let that slide. If we do, people with the incentive to take advantage will fuck up the system. If we are in for the long haul, we have to treat this like a war. This might not an idealistic or a lenient way of doing things but I've never heard of any other idea that could work. This might not even be right or moral, but morality is the luxury of the winner or the sour grapes of a loser.
We've had a tough time of eradicating feminism because we've been fighting a war in enemy turf where he can set the conditions of the battle. There's no way MRAs are going to convince feminists to give up power. The mere act of asking someone to act fair puts you in a position below them and is an indirect acknowledgment that you are indeed inferior. And good luck trying to domesticate that slut who's been pumped and dumped from puberty till menopause. Patriarchy worked because it wasn't concerned about morality but it was concerned about what would work as a system to improve family structure. Civilization improved because people found a way to effectively utilize the reward and punishment system aka the carrot and the stick method. And, I might be wrong here, I fail to see an active enforcement of stick to cock carousal riding sluts these days. There are some indirect punishments such as getting dumped and left to be alone at an old age etc but they are only an after effect of a strategy that is solely based on maximizing sexual proficiency for men. Problem is, trying to fuck many girls just for the sake of it without an end goal is only a half measure. Withdrawing resources while paying taxes to support women indirectly is a half measure. Trying to change legislature instead of changing people's mind is a half measure. This won't work. At least I don't think it will.
And remember, if any of this sounds monstrous, there is no right or wrong when it comes to survival. Kill or be killed. Once you're under attack, there's no way you can reason with the guy. You can certainly make him listen after you've established dominance on him but that's your prerogative after you've established said dominance. Women respond to this best because all they understand is power. I would like to think that this is indeed such an approach. Fairness is man made along with every other noble concept.
Lastly, understand that this is just an arguement. We're spit balling to see what would work instead of thinking of doing it by the rules. It's highly unlikely anyone will ever make anything out of this but you never fucking know.
[deleted] 6y ago
Back in patriarchy days, the reason girls got married early was for two reasons. One was to secure provisions. The other was that if she didn't, she was fair game.
It has always been for provisions from what i can deduce - becoming a housewife is just significantly easier than going out into the brutal workplace and finding a job. Women want children, security and a balanced lifestyle so naturally not working is what they want, something funny is that women still won't do the bottom jobs that only men would do (garbage ... waste disposal etc) and still won't do the very high up / difficult careers (architect ... lawyer ... anything math related.... anything computer related .... scientists...). Sorry for this massive segway but i suppose my point here would be that women are just not willing to make the same massive workplace sacrifices that men are - because, they are more inclined to a balanced lifestyle.
All fun and games with feminism until women actually have to go into hard working fields. THE PATRIARKY IS PRUEVENTING WYMN FROM GIOING INZOTO THESE FIUELDS!
The greatest balance is being a housewife because there is access to children, funds (husband), cock (husband and Tyrone) and status ("look at my wedding and gorgeous children! - it really is just a game with women).
Naturally wired to cheat
Women are polygamous beings - this issue gets worse every year because the only reason women don't cheat constantly is due to societies influence. Now this is a big problem because feminism has told women "you should f**** around as much as possible" and that it's a good thing. More partners = less pair bonding = more cheating.
Monogamy was just never a viable strategy in the modern world - the average partners goes up and so does the average cheating rate. I seriously fear for the future state of the world, there is very little that can be done about monogamy dying out - prepare for open relationships to become a common thing.
Think of it like an equation in their mind - if you don't fulfil a subset of her needs then she will go elsewhere to plug the hole. No one can meet a women's needs in the modern world because now the dating market is global - there is not just competition between local men for women, now it is everyone and everywhere.
"Guys who fuck someone's wife need to be punished too. What kind of punishment they deserve might be up for discussion, but we cannot let that slide."
Oh man i wish there was a way - but, inevitably this issue will continue to happen far into the future. That raises another point : do you really think that the current gynocentric climate could ever possibly punish a woman? Even false rape allegations were not punished for a long time, now that they are (rare) it is just a slap on the wrist with a week in prison.
"If we are in for the long haul, we have to treat this like a war. This might not an idealistic or a lenient way of doing things but I've never heard of any other idea that could work. This might not even be right or moral, but morality is the luxury of the winner or the sour grapes of a loser"
You are correct but now see the juxt of the problem.. It is immoral to approach the world in this way and the most effective solution is to treat it like war.
This is why MGTOW's have left the dating realm.
"We've had a tough time of eradicating feminism because we've been fighting a war in enemy turf where he can set the conditions of the battle."
Still here in Australia. Can't even watch television anymore it's that bad right now - wouldn't be surprised if they made a "male tax" wherin you pay just for being born a privileged white male.
"There's no way MRAs are going to convince feminists to give up power."
Yep.
"The mere act of asking someone to act fair puts you in a position below them and is an indirect acknowledgment that you are indeed inferior"
Yep.
"And good luck trying to domesticate that slut who's been pumped and dumped from puberty till menopause."
Hey now, TRP could probably work if you beat her senseless all the time and instilled stock-holm syndrome :D !!! /s
"And, I might be wrong here, I fail to see an active enforcement of stick to cock carousal riding sluts these days."
You are correct.
"There are some indirect punishments such as getting dumped and left to be alone at an old age etc but they are only an after effect of a strategy that is solely based on maximizing sexual proficiency for men."
The sad truth is that even a post-wall landwhale will be able to find a simp to settle down with when she is older.
"Problem is, trying to fuck many girls just for the sake of it without an end goal is only a half measure"
Well the end goal for me is abstinence which gives a plethora of benefits. Though it is practically impossible given my current age of 19 - hormones and what not.
"You can certainly make him listen after you've established dominance on him but that's your prerogative after you've established said dominance."
You like Jordan Peterson too? :)
Males can tell if someone is better than them fairly easily, so it is not usually necessary to put someone in their place. That being said one of the faults in males is ego - so i could very well be wrong here.
"Women respond to this best because all they understand is power. I would like to think that this is indeed such an approach."
Dominating women? Well fuck it has worked since the dawn of time and things only really started going to shit when women were given more power than their male counterparts (harsh but the truth). Goodluck trying to dominate a woman in the current climate, though - i wish the red pilled people a fun time with their STD's, rape allegations and roast beef women.
"Lastly, understand that this is just an arguement. We're spit balling to see what would work instead of thinking of doing it by the rules. It's highly unlikely anyone will ever make anything out of this but you never fucking know"
Oh i gave up on a solution about a year ago. Good sharing of ideas, my friend! May we continue to grow and develop our belief systems, maybe the world will get better - who knows?
moorekom Mod 6y ago
I'm glad you've brought this up. Women are always comfortable at the middle. I've seen it in so many companies. Especially technical companies. They don't want to take on the responsibility of a leader but they want to hold onto some power. Their actual strategy is to hold some power and some manipulative power. The top would make the second harder and the bottom makes them rely on the second alone. They use their preference as a power move as well. All this bullshit about wage gap and more women in some field originates exactly from this.
The reason feminism wanted women to get into work force was that they wanted to get some actual power. Prior to that, it has always been entirely manipulative for the most part. Patrice O'Neal once said a profound thing that sums this up perfectly: "Women don't want to win. They want a winner. They want to look at a winner and go this motherfucker is my man." And that's why we have all the where are all the good men posts. By over stepping their biological boundaries, women fucked themselves over. Greed has lead to their current demise.
Resources might be the bigger part of the pie when it comes to women marrying, but what I've explained above is another hard wired part of it. This is probably why women married early back in patriarchy days. She doesn't get to get her own winner. If she complied to her rules, her family will get her one. I'm sure you're well aware that women will always follow the easy path. The madness we have now is because of the removal of such core foundations.
About women and polygamy:
Men are women are not wired the same way. There is a fundamental difference between the way they look for partners. Men can love a lot of girls at the same time. Women can only love one guy at a time. It doesn't matter if she fucks one hundred guys in her life time, for her, it was all a quest to find that one guy. For men, fucking a 100 girls in itself is very satisfying. A lot of the shit girls do these days are them trying to copy alpha men hoping that that will give them happiness. It doesn't. According to research, women are more unhappy now than ever.
//Think of it like an equation in their mind - if you don't fulfil a subset of her needs then she will go elsewhere to plug the hole. No one can meet a women's needs in the modern world because now the dating market is global - there is not just competition between local men for women, now it is everyone and everywhere//
Fuck her. Let her go. Wish her good luck that she can find another man better than you. A woman's approach in love is passive. All she has to do is to comply. From her end, she doesn't even know how to get a relationship from a guy or to keep a guy. What happens to her is not your problem. She's only your responsibility until she's with you.
//do you really think that the current gynocentric climate could ever possibly punish a woman? //
In the current climate? Fuck no. Remember what I said about changing the battlefield? If you want to argue with a woman on a topic she chose, you've already lost.
//You like Jordan Peterson too? //
He's a verbal master at explaining his ideas but his ideas, in my mind anyway, are very idealistic and are popular because it easily appeals to the idealistic fantasy in most people. He's red pill lite. He can be a good starting point but I don't agree with most of the things he talks about.
//Males can tell if someone is better than them fairly easily, so it is not usually necessary to put someone in their place. That being said one of the faults in males is ego - so i could very well be wrong here.//
Dude, no one is born a gangster. Sometimes you just have to take a lot of ass whopping to finally not give a shit and become cold blooded. Men improve themselves through hardship. Even if a guy is indeed tougher than me, I would still stand up to him if he's in the wrong. Not because I think I can win but because I have to. For myself.
//Dominating women? Well fuck it has worked since the dawn of time and things only really started going to shit when women were given more power than their male counterparts (harsh but the truth). Goodluck trying to dominate a woman in the current climate, though - i wish the red pilled people a fun time with their STD's, rape allegations and roast beef women.//
I get your frustration. But, there's more to life than giving up man. Also, remember, by nature women are the submissive gender. If 50 shades of grey tells you anything, every feminist bitchcunt wants an alpha who would dominate her sexually but would be sweet to her emotionally. That is the crux of their impossible dream. Alpha dominance and beta support at the same time, from the same guy in one package. Women will always err on the side of the alpha thinking that they can magically cure his arrogance with their own. They think their is the magical pill that will finally tame him. If a girl doesn't submit to you, find one who will.
[deleted] 6y ago
I agree with everything you say, but :
Men are women are not wired the same way. There is a fundamental difference between the way they look for partners. Men can love a lot of girls at the same time. Women can only love one guy at a time. It doesn't matter if she fucks one hundred guys in her life time, for her, it was all a quest to find that one guy. For men, fucking a 100 girls in itself is very satisfying. A lot of the shit girls do these days are them trying to copy alpha men hoping that that will give them happiness. It doesn't. According to research, women are more unhappy now than ever.
I just don't know yet as to whether a woman can only love one guy at a time - there are zero studies done on any of this so it is all smart speculation. This could be the case? Same thing applies to men loving many different woman.
Something really fucking interesting is this : According to research, women are more unhappy now than ever. They indeed are but the interesting part is what could be underlying this? You say it is women pretending to be alpha but i think it is a deeper issue than that. Perhaps because women have more developed emotion regions of the brain it leads to a greater release of Oxytocin (love chemical) and desensitises the receptors (requiring more chemical release to reach the same effect of love) resulting in women being unhappy even while in relationships because of the chemical not being utilised properly.
Tyrone = high release. (desensitisation period) Paul = low release.
Alright so this part is my massive speculation - but will be something i'm going to look into a lot. Another marvel is the effect of social media on women's brains - it is likened in the MGTOW community as crack for girls. The tinder experiment shows that online women get extreme amounts of attention from boys (pretty straight forward and not an unpopular idea).
Perhaps this leads to them also requiring more attention to stimulate the same levels of Oxycontin... Which begs the question of what is needed for the development of love in the first place? I have research to do.
In any case this will just lead to me furthering myself from women even more.
moorekom Mod 6y ago
Dude, do you think you are going to find studies about female mating strategy in this feminist controlled world? If you want any semblance of unadulterated truth, you have to look to manosphere or old philosophy. Neither are, for the most part, scientific. Just because something doesn't have scientific proof yet doesn't mean that it cannot be true.
//You say it is women pretending to be alpha but i think it is a deeper issue than that. //
If we get into this topic, it can be quite elaborate but I just outlined it to keep it simple. The issue is mainly because of what you've outlined, yes. When she fucks an alpha, her pleasure center makes her feel good. The more you abuse it, the more dosage you need to feel good. So, every alpha she meets has to be equal or better to the ones she's fucked before. A beta or a lesser alpha just wouldn't do. Does this remind of someone? Yep. An addict. Post wall hags bleating where are all the good men is just withdrawal symptoms. And like any addict she will always have that lure to the drug. She will always look for and get tempted by that chase. Women don't have high impulse control. There is a reason a lot of the societies had child marriage. One of them was the life span was a lot shorter. The other main one is because they didn't want to feed this addiction.
There was a post recently in the main sub where a married woman was wondering if her husband was the best she could do. She was obsessed with finding out how sex with other people would feel as she has only fucked her husband. As you can see, they have an innate propensity to this addiction because of their hypergamy. Wondering if she can do better and looking to see if she actually can is innate to her biology. But a lot of factors limit this. No woman a hundred years ago would have dared say this in the open. Not even to her friends. Especially not her mom. Once you give a woman a non judgemental environment, she'll be tempted to tell you what she actually wants and she'll try to see if she can actually get it. That's what feminism does. It strives to make things very non judgemental for women on all aspects whereas being very judgmental of men. In their minds, they are flipping the script of patriarchy but patriarchy worked because it was an actual progression of psychology based impedance system. It held both people accountable but yes, one more than the other. The current degeneracy you see is because of going the opposite direction which goes against evolution. It won't work in the long term. The societies that practice feminism gets ruined eventually. Order returns one way or another to evolutionary based system. This can be because they get repopulated by another tribe (look to Europe) or could be because they go back to zero and rebuild. When that happens, women go back to the safety of the house. There are no feminists where there is a fire. If this is the natural hard reset, what I've proposed earlier is a force restart. You might not be able to reset your entire country, but reset the condition to the people around you. MGTOW does not do much to damage the non judgmental environment that feminism has brought in. For there tui be change, there needs to be judgement and that needs to come from a place of higher value than her. They don't acknowledge mgtows as high value. If you want to beat the enemy, you should have the better logistics for this is war.
As a side note, I understand that you've read a lot of mgtow material. But you should read some red pill stuff to understand the psychology of a woman. Only that will bring you full circle. I would recommend rational male books and illimitable men blog. You are young man. Your problem in life should be that you're too aggressive. That you think you would conquer the world by yourself. Don't let others convince you that life is bleak. That bitch there trying to act like she's the shit? Fuck her. Get a girl who will be sweet to you. Better yet, learn to be so aggressive that bitch will submit to you and be nice to you. That's the best thing ever. Conquering and commanding.
[deleted] 6y ago
The problem really is just sorting the massive amounts of anecdotal information into something that can be refined into as "near truth" as possible. Strong anecdote has always had strong precursors to being correct - like, for example nucleus overload in bodybuilding. People were saying for YEARS that this shit was real and only in recent times was science actually able to catch up and document this effect properly.
Instead of years.. people have been saying the same anecdotes about women for centuries.
Ah, i understand your point now.
This problem here is probably the difference between optimists and pessimists (like me) - I do not think that the likelihood of us returning to this system is very high, not because it is a bad system (quite the opposite) but that there is zero chance of eliminating feminism in the modern world. If we go back a long time there was always the threat of war as a major event that returned both men and women back to the same evolutionary system - nowadays this will never happen, there will not be another world war (possibly some closed off ones but that is just not big enough) which is needed for the complete removal of feminism. Additionally, the reason for this is the idea of MAD or mutually assured destruction - if we have another war it is not going to be had with guns... it is going to be complete nuclear warfare and everyone will die and the world will be ruined completely for the next hundred years or more. So, what is your opinion here if there just can't be a forced reset?
Believe it or not but i tried to do this. Blue pilled "betas" really just do not want to wake up man... Society hands them conditions and they say "yes miss right away" without ever questioning their own belief system - feminism MUST be right women MUST be right. It's 1984 brainwashing but on an even greater scale, as for women the best lies are the ones that they believe themselves and women really do think that they are being oppressed. Turning on the television out here in Australia is pure cancer.. every TV show has some insane element to it, like just recently i heard about "a man that kept his money from his wife when he died" like it was this insanely bad thing. HOW DARE SHE NOT GET MONEY FOR NOTHING!
An idea might do more damage than you think - MRA's are basically the laughing stock of the community because nothing is ever accomplished, unlike men women are not going to relinquish their strong power grasp over society and it is only going to get worse in the future. Without a cataclysmic event which we seem to both agree on - there will be no chance for a hard reset of societal functioning. Personally, i'm going to invest some time into spiritualism (meditation and all that shit) to give me some calmness in this chaotic world while the MRA's and TRP try to alleviate an issue that cannot be solved. Sure i'll miss out on some wet holes, but alas i think that the reward of intrinsic happiness and contentment with oneself is a much better reward than a woman could ever be - maybe Buddha had it right after all.
Very unpopular opinion, here : MGTOW is the ending road of TRP - one side has assessed the issue and is trying to alleviate it (sexual strategy etc) while the other side has assessed it and deemed this to be unchangeable. This is the real red pill, an real alpha would do what is best for himself and that is to go full monk mode since it is highly beneficial when practised properly - i'm not going to pretend that's me yet, because it is definitely not at age 19.. but thats my end goal.
I agree with this whole paragraph apart from the MGTOW point.
I might as well, sure. Youth becomes my ally since there are many decades for me to refine my belief system to better suit reality - "Your problem in life should be that you're too aggressive." as they all say.
"Better yet, learn to be so aggressive that bitch will submit to you and be nice to you. That's the best thing ever. Conquering and commanding."
Will be on the lookout for the esteemed NAWALT unicorn - if i find her i'll let you know. Joking aside i'll be sampling a few women just to solidify my beliefs and get my hormones to chill out. Partly humble brag partly a side note, but i do have good genetics... i'm not one of those INCELS who can't get women but rather a voluntary MGTOW.
moorekom Mod 6y ago
http://archive.is/xjrW5
Read this to understand the earlier point of women fucking different guys to find that special someone aka The one.
moorekom Mod 6y ago
//I do not think that the likelihood of us returning to this system is very high, not because it is a bad system (quite the opposite) but that there is zero chance of eliminating feminism in the modern future//
Ha ha... don't be presumptuous to think we can predict on what can or cannot happen.
//what is your opinion here if there just can't be a forced reset?//
Invasion. The native population will be replaced by another tribe. Again, look at Chinese, muslims etc. If you're not fierce, those who are fierce will replace you. Or internal decay and eventual rebuild. Look at Russia.
//Believe it or not but i tried to do this. Blue pilled "betas" really just do not want to wake up man... //
Do not help people who don't deserve it in one way or another. It has to be clear that they will be grateful that you helped them or they ask for it in one way or another.
// Very unpopular opinion, here : MGTOW is the ending road of TRP - one side has assessed the issue and is trying to alleviate it (sexual strategy etc) while the other side has assessed it and deemed this to be unchangeable. This is the real red pill, an real alpha would do what is best for himself and that is to go full monk mode since it is highly beneficial when practised properly //
Do not be confined by definitions of alpha and beta. If you do what you like and make your own rules, you are your own man. Do not bow down to anyone or anything just because that's the acceptable thing to do. Everyone has their own definition of what will make them happy. My mission is not yours. Your current mission might be completely different. But, you might end up wanting a similar mission as mine. Even though the roads might be different, always have an open mind to ideas. Judge everything, by yourself, based on some criteria and find out it's value by yourself.
//This is the real red pill, an real alpha would do what is best for himself and that is to go full monk mode since it is highly beneficial when practised properly //
The best thing you can do in your life is to improve yourself first. After that, you share what you have with people who you think are worth sharing it to. You're not supposed to chase down a girl to manipulate her to having sex with you. There are people who like the chase. The chase can be fun. What's more satisfying is her chasing you, knowing that you're better and have more value. It might not be often, but when that happens, you're both staying true to nature.
//Will be on the lookout for the esteemed NAWALT unicorn //
Ha ha.. there's no nawalt. There are degrees though. Here's one of my favorite quotes from a stand up comedian Patrice O'Neal: " I don't hope to find nothing in a woman. I find her and make her into what I need." Listen to all his stuff in YouTube. Especially his black phillip show.
// i'm not one of those INCELS who can't get women but rather a voluntary MGTOW.//
Ha ha... don't worry about definitions man. You define your life. If you're fine with what you're doing, you'll be alright. You have lots of time. Don't be confined by your beliefs. Your beliefs will change over time and so will you. Always have an open mind, a strong sense of morality and the willingness to walk away from anything you don't think is worth the effort.
moorekom Mod 6y ago
I was planning on a long reply to this but at the moment, cannot. I'll just link this article here. It's very long but it pretty much covers everything that needs discussion. I will get back to this discussion in a few days.
https://www.woujo.com/blog/2018/4/26/how-to-hold-frame
[deleted] 6y ago
It was a good discussion - even if you don't end up responding.
On another note, to talk about TRP real quick.
A woman's ability to pair bond decreases directly in relation to how many sexual partners she has had. This is the major reason why TRP is having a negative impact on women - the average male is able to bang 6's , 8's , 10's ... people are just dancing on the grave of monogamy, truly as sad state of affairs.
If anyone is able to bang hot girls with just investing effort into TRP then it defeats the purpose of getting a girlfriend in the first place - The end result is a completely used product that is just a zombie form of her previous self (when it comes to actually developing and maintaining emotions for another person / pair bonding). No wonder the rate of divorce and failed relationships is so high - just look at the statistics and then look at the pair bonding decrease rates per new cock.
When the average girl has had anywhere from 4-100 different dicks in her it is very hard to imagine how modern women are at all desirable?
Feminists support polygamy and so do the cucks.
moorekom Mod 6y ago
Oh, we will have a discussion still. I just haven't had the time to type up the long list of stuff I've wanted to. :)
I don't subscribe to the line of thought that a man's measure is by his sexual proficiency. Most people in trp (the reddit version at least) do. Most of the stuff they talk about is just old school leadership training. On that end, trp is invaluable. It teaches you to take your life in your own hands and to hold yourself to a higher standard. But, my issue with them is the same one you have. They are being selfish. They are not helping to improve the situation. Their method is to enjoy the decline, have as much fun as possible and wait for the eventual rebuilding. The trouble is, this is only going to feed into the social problems we have. This will do next to nothing to alleviate it. When our comes to the rebuilding stage, how do you think these men and women will adapt to it after a life time of hedonism? There are things you can do to your benefit, her benefit or to the benefit of the family/ society. MGTOW and Trp are primarily concerned about your own benefit. My stance is to improve yourself to your best and to do what you're supposed to do as a man. You be a leader. That might be as small as a family or a company or anything, but I strongly believe that the purpose of life is to give. Women's happiness has decreased every year even after all their financial, social and other improvements. Why? They have forgotten how to be giving. They want to take. Granted, that might be the default nature of humanity, but we did not get to build a civilization by being selfish assholes.
kevin32 Mod 6y ago
u/Endzone19, I recommend making this comment a separate thread. It would show the community why men are going their own way.
I also agree with many of your perspectives over at r/MGTOW, and a few of your threads clearly shows that you want to help other MGTOWs, so I encourage you to post your perspectives with us here.
[deleted] 6y ago
That's an interesting theme going on, chaos V. S. order. I'm kinda high here, but maybe the supposed chaos we think we see around us is just our stupid monkey brains not comprehending it's structure? Hell I'd argue that chaos is actually more structured than what we would consider order.
It's interesting that this is connected up with Evolution because Darwin was pretty much a teleologist, which doesn't leave much room to entertain the notion of an unstructured part to reality.
moorekom Mod 6y ago
I view it as this. Women are more attuned to the chaotic design of nature whereas men are the ones to establish order and civilization. If you read "Fall of empires" by Glubb, he clearly mentions that anytime anything similar to feminism reared its head on civilizations such as Rome and Middle East, it all went downhill fast. And there was no stopping that train.
What we consider chaos does not make sense to us. But, maybe on some level it does have some purpose. We can say one thing for sure. It is an utterly simple and brutal way of making sure improvement occurs one way or another. It does not care who wins. Just that improvement occurs regardless of whoever wins.
kevin32 Mod 6y ago
Has a "Where have all the good men gone...wrong?" feel, which is certainly something to be considered.
Thanks for posting u/moorekom. Remember as an Endorsed member you may crosspost your article to r/WhereAreAllTheGoodMen for greater visibility if you wish.
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Guncriminal 6y ago
Blame the state (they set up this sorry state of affairs), not the victims.
BigLebowskiBot 6y ago
Ummmm, sure. That and a pair of testicles.