This is an update to this post: Ghosted after the first date: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1db0qh4/ghosted_after_the_first_date/
Just a quick timeline recap:
Friday: 1st Date. it was great
Saturday: No contact either way
Sunday: She sends a video that she recorded of us. I contact her later that night, but she responds she can’t talk. I Tell her to message me when she can (message left unread)
Monday - Wednesday: No contact either way
Thursday: I send a message saying I enjoyed our date and want to see her again this weekend (messages left unread)
Friday: no contact either way (I presume that I have been ghosted)
Saturday: I Call her, she answers and gives silly excuse for not being able to read the messages. She reads messages and replies that she is “happy” that I want to see her again, but she can’t see me this weekend. She suggests Tuesday after work
Tuesday: The 2nd Date
The Date
I pick her up at her job and we grab food and head back to my place. Started to watch a movie and started to cuddle sometime after. She goes to the bathroom and return. I start to feel up on her and realizes her pants and bra are undone after returning from the bathroom. Inching closer to her vagina area. She says, if I don’t plan on giving her oral don’t touch. I reach her vag, she’s unshaven, I continue to caress, she repeats “oral or do not touch”. I continue touching. All her clothes are off. (She hasn’t yet shown much enthusiasm or touched my dick). I tell her to take off my t-shirt, she does. I tell her to let’s go to the bedroom, but she says that she is not ready for intercourse. I pause and step back a bit on the couch. Held her close to me for a couple mins and continued kissing and caressing. She repeats the “oral or don’t touch” phrase. I continue to caress and finger her; she repeats the oral or don’t touch phrase again. I ask if she would be giving me oral as well, she said no. Says she is not ready to have sex with me today. I stop and give excuse about wanting to give her all of me, and I know sex is special and I want her to be comfortable when she takes that step with me without and reservations, yada yada. I continue to show support/caress and respect her decision for not wanting sex at this time. She says that I told her all those things only because I am a man and want sex. She shows disappointment in me not giving her oral. I drive her to her home. When I reached back home, I realize that she blocked me because I'm not seeing her info.
Note: If she was shaven and/or had bathed by me, I may have given her oral with the hopes of arousing her enough where perhaps would eventually have sex me, but she didn't do either.
Thoughts?
NeoSpartan 6mo ago
"Oral or do not touch"?
Damn dude, sounds like you dodged a bullet tbh. Never give oral, it's submissive crap and a health risk.
mattyanon Admin 6mo ago
She didn't want the second date with you. She kept being vague, and eventually sort of gave in, but she didn't want the date at all. She lied about the text messages when you called, to cover for her flaking/rudeness..... and then she had to pretend to be interested because she lied about the text messages. She put you off for a while, but eventually ran out of excuses and agreed to meet because you basically cornered her into it. She was passively trying to express disinterest, and wasn't assertive enough to say no thanks.
Everything that happened on the date was because of lack of interest. Didn't shave. Oral only. Support for her decision is just falling into her frame at this point. This isn't a girl playing hard to get, this isn't a girl playing "make him wait", this is a girl who just isn't interested and you should have known that from her previous disinterest over text.
cannybeau 6mo ago
-- She lied about the text messages
Her excuse was plausible, I think. She said that due to the storage on her phone that she couldn't use WhatsApp so she had to delete stuff. I don't know how that works so I assume it may be somewhat true. Also, when I called on regular phone call, she immediately answered.
-- and agreed to meet because you basically cornered her into it.
She replied over text and said she was happy that I said that I wanted to see her again. I even called and confirmed that she wanted to see me again and that she was interested and she said yes. She recommended the earliest day which was the Tuesday after work.
-- Everything that happened on the date was because of lack of interest.
-- This isn't a girl playing hard to get, this isn't a girl playing "make him wait",
On the first date she told me her parents told her that older men (like myself) only wanted to use her, so I assumed that is why her guard was up and acting the way she did. She also has a religious background.
I'm just stating the reasons for the decisions/mistakes that I made and wanting to learn from them.
mattyanon Admin 6mo ago
I think you're deflecting what I said rather than learning from it.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 6mo ago
Needy, not organic way to contact a woman after a date
More needy behavior
Cause she has other
dickplans alreadyShe sounds like an entitled brat and you sound like you have oneitis
Next.
You have serious scarcity mentality. This is one hoe in the Pussific Ocean™ go date other women and work on escalating better. Learn to pass shit tests
Even if you had passed these shit tests with her she sounds like a bitch. I've never had a girl demand oral or she goes home. Have some self respect and next her (well she blocked you anyway so...)
You shouldn't care this much about a lame entitled hoe. She sounds retarded anyhow
No-Stress-Cat 6mo ago
Today's phrase is: "Pussific Ocean". Say it. Use it. Wear it out.
Lone_Ranger 2 6mo ago
Its salty, and a bit polluted. Every spring break, millions of guys dive in.
No-Stress-Cat 6mo ago
LMAO
Overkill_Engine 2 6mo ago
Chad drowns in it!
Vermillion-Rx Admin 6mo ago
Thanks i just came up with it
Lone_Ranger 2 6mo ago
Dude, Vermy has already given you a decent response. So mine is going to be much shorter:
You have zero frame.
The girl is behaving the way that she wants you to behave. She is laying down demands and being assertive - this is masculine behaviour. The reason why modern women are acting masculine is partly because modern men are so feminine. So the women have to make up the difference. This is called 'transference' - the females are adopting the masculine traits that they want to see in men, can't find, so in an act of desperation, they start to exhibit these traits themselves. I'm not blaming men, I'm just explaining the dynamic.
The result is that nobody is happy. The woman are all butch, and the men act all soppy. the result is that the young are becoming sexless. this is the first generation that is getting laid less than their parents. Birth rates are falling off a cliff.
She was basically being the man - she basically said to you "get on you knees and suck it bitch!!"
wtf dude.
And then you drove her home?? Why? Just her to go. Tell her to call an uber.
You were being needy and beta from the start. Going on dates is beta to begin with. And then all that text messaging, jesus wept.
I am guessing this is some girl you found on OLD? and then went out on 2 dates with? where you paid for shit?
When are you going to learn?
EurasianChad 1 6mo ago
The more you chase, the further she runs.
Learn detachment, even if you have to pretend.
Have other things going for you besides women.
redhawkes 2 6mo ago
She wanted to fuck, but your passiveness dried up her pussy. You concentrated too much on her mouth diarrhea, instead of what she was doing. Change her mood, not her mind.
Pussy tingles are born in defensive crouch. You acted like a bitch and she treated you like one. Not a sign of dominance and leading. The hotter the bitch, the more of an asshole game you need. They are pedestalized on the regular by the simps, hence the entitled/bratty behavior.
Subby hoes shit test the most. Some of them act bratty to make you angry so you become dominant and put her in her place.
IG model = whore/prostitute
cannybeau 6mo ago
yea. being out of the game for so long I miscalculated. I should have fucked her on the first date and if not next.
Musicgoon78 2 6mo ago
Wow, You got played hard. She didn't really want you in the first place. That much was obvious. You persisted to simp. She figured "I might as well get oral out of this chump". She lead the interaction, set the frame and dominated you. And you folded quickly.
It's no wonder she ghosted. Your frame is weak and she controlled the entire situation. Women make rules for betas.
cannybeau 6mo ago
What makes you think that she didn't really want me in the first place? Although I have suspicions of my own. I folded quickly because I believed that she wasn't worth the hassle. I think she ghosted because she wanted to fuck on the first date but I wasn't getting any obvious indications and was kind of playing it for the long game. my mistake
Musicgoon78 2 6mo ago
It's wasn't a fuck yes. She didn't contact you for a week. You had to reach out to her.
A girl that gets the tingles will reach out after the date and the next morning. Most girls I date text me good morning at the very least every day.
Please don't tell me bullshit about the long game. Most guys are happy to fuck in the first date. You don't know why she ghosted, but her actions show very low interest.
What do you mean by long game? Clarify because it sounds like you simply didn't sack up.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 6mo ago
Yup, I send the text me when you get home text and usually if interested they keep the text chain going and if they don't make plans they'll ask what I'm doing and I'll comment and they'll say "ooh we should do that/that sounds fun" and then second plans without trying
cannybeau 6mo ago
long game meaning not a hit and run. I usually lose interest quickly in situations where I get sex early on. And especially after getting to know her by her actions of not messaging me the week after the first date. But she is an IG model with a massive following and her brand is very suited to promote my business and products. So I wanted to keep her for more than just a ONS.
Lone_Ranger 2 6mo ago
Instagram model?!
Oh my poor sweet summer child.
(wipes away tears of mirth)
Musicgoon78 2 6mo ago
You're simping hard homie.
cannybeau 6mo ago
I realize that now. I should have viewed her not contacting me after the first date as a strong indicator of her interest level and just moved on. Events unfolded exactly as they should have. I imagine that even if I had managed to have sex with her, it would have been very disappointing for both of us.
-- It's wasn't a fuck yes
If it's not a fuck yes then it's a fuck no. Point taken
MrSupreme 6mo ago
Move on to other women, I'm glad you didn't eat her pussy because she seems like the kind that looks at men who eat pussy as submissive,weak,inferior guys. She doesn't sound too eager even without her clothes on, what freaky things women are. Probably very open to some other guy.
Lone_Ranger 2 6mo ago
if he had eaten that pussy, he would have been chomping on the cum of a hundred chads.
Chads unload in her pussy, betas lick it up.
cannybeau 6mo ago
she was in total shock (her eyes opened wide) when I leaned back on the couch after she said that she wasn't ready for sex that day. I'm not really used to LMR so my reaction maybe was a little more than subtle. It was the last straw for me (after bushy vag, didn't bathe after she went into the bathroom, no passionate kissing, didn't grab my dick, etc). She didn't contact me for a week after the first date, so I imagine that she went on dates (& fucked?) with other guys during that time.
First-light 6mo ago
You can't know someone very well from two dates. What you can say with confidence is; She was interested but not that interested. Something happened on the second date to make her decide she was no longer interested She behaved in a rather selfish way
Most likely scenario is she was a player. She had another guy or guys going. That is why she did not reply when she should have and was not easily available, that is why she was interested but needed to be sure that you were either enough of a pussy beggar to be put on the string or needed to know that you were worth complicating her life for.
I find much more to criticise in her behaviour than yours. However the one thing I would say is that some women do not like to be aroused unless you mean to satisfy them. If she genuinely was not ready to have sex with you (which only a slut would be on a second date) she may have been seriously pissed off that you went and aroused her and then did not satisfy her, when she specifically told you that was the only offer.
She is still bratty and selfish if she wants oral sex and won't give it but its still worth playing straight. If that is what she says, and you go on touching her, then in the end you should put out, then trust to her being generous in return if not now another time (even if that is unlikely). Just as you can quite legitimately say to a girl, "If you start playing with my dick, I need to bang you, do you understand, you can't get me all excited and then leave me hanging"
What is probably clearest of all to me from this though is that the right answer was reached here -you are not a match. For whatever reason she is not that interested. Sure you could have gone Uber Chad and just maybe game her into banging if you did it different but then you would just have a lukewarm bratty woman who would mess you about and was probably banging other guys. Maybe you could say "once is enough, I am not bothered again" and just end it with here then and there but if you didn't you would just have a bad relationship there.
The best barometer of whether or not to proceed is whether she is really interested or not. Game (salesmanship) may get you a few more bad lays or a few earlier good lays but good lays come from good matches. For a good match you need market fundamentals, not salesmanship. Be value, offer value, select value. After that natural courtship will ensue.
cannybeau 6mo ago
This is a well thought out analysis. I appreciate the time taken to write this.
-- she may have been seriously pissed off that you went and aroused her and then did not satisfy her, when she specifically told you that was the only offer.
I would agree with you here. She was in total disbelief when I leaned back on the couch after she said that she wasn't ready for sex that day. She realized that she wasn't going to get eat out either.
-- go on touching her, then in the end you should put out
after she said no sex today (she was already naked and I was between her legs) was when I leaned back. I then comforted her and begin fingering and caressing her again then she said the touch only if oral phrase again. It was at this time I asked if she would be reciprocating. After she said no I lost all interest and stopped.
Whatsnext 6mo ago
Holy shit I cant imagine a girl I just met telling me to give her oral and shes not going to give me oral. I would be like get the fuck out of my house. Maybe im not lenient enough though
Whatsnext 6mo ago
my first thought is "this bitch is so disgusting i dont want her near me" but ig some need pussy that bad
cannybeau 6mo ago
-- telling me to give her oral and shes not going to give me oral.
yup. it was at that point where I lost all interest.
[deleted] 6mo ago
[--removed--]
financehardo420 6mo ago
notes: stop being a cuck