Hi everyone. This is a throwaway.
One day ago, I (22M) shared a night with someone who I've been good friends with (22F) for 1.5 years. I'm American, she is not an American citizen, is an international student. We have flirted on and off often. She's bisexual, and has a girlfriend currently (I know, bad idea. Thinking with my dick wayy too much). I asked her if she thought something like this would happen, and she said no, and I genuinely did not think it would either. We smoked weed and drank at my apartment, and slept in my bed together. Of note - I do have sort of a playboy-ish reputation among my close friends friend group, half earned and half kinda played-up by male friends, which is both helpful and harmful in some ways.
During the night we just cuddled, but in the early AM, things started to progress. She was rubbing her butt on my penis, snuggling up to me, etc. Being very, very affectionate. One thing led to another and eventually she had her hand down my pants, kind of jerking my penis, and I performed oral on her breasts and fingered her (but no penetration/intercourse at all as she was on her period, and no vaginal oral). She was saying things such as "I love you", being very enthusiastic, even offering to jerk me off with lube and/or suck it, etc. We eventually stopped fooling around at 10AM or so and slept for a few hours, and I drove her home in the afternoon, and everything seemed fine in the car. Everything seemed fine for the most part - she was acting a bit cold perhaps when texting that night, but she sometimes would do that in the past, so it didn't seem out of the ordinary. She told me she was not planning on telling her girlfriend about it at all, and still hasn't as of this morning. We agreed to not tell a soul.
This morning, I texted her a joke-ish image about plans we had on Wednesday, and she said "nonengr3r i don’t think I will be comfortable being around you or talking to you for a while and i want you to know that." This pretty much shocked me, completely blindsided, as she had given no indication of this previously. I said "I understand. If you want to talk about it sometime, please tell me, I don't want to lose you as a friend. I hope I didn't make you feel uncomfortable at all, and I want to let you know that I feel bad we let it go as far as it did. Shouldn't have happened." I really do feel awful that I let it go as far as it did, even though she was initiating a good amount of it too. She responded with "i just need some time and space", then I told her I regret anything happened, that I'd appreciate a chance to talk to her face to face about it sometime and hash things out (and that it can be in public etc), that I'll always be there for her if she needs me etc.
Anyway, I am now concerned about possible legal allegations or something along those lines, or that she'd start posting things on social media, or spread rumors to friend group. Yes, she was the one that cheated, but I enabled it and I am afraid she'd say something along the lines of "I didn't feel I had a choice, I felt pressured, etc". Neither one of us were drunk or high at the time it happened. I never would have thought she'd say she does not feel comfortable around me though, and I don't necessarily predict it'll go that far regarding legal stuff, but I want to be prepared and would appreciate some advice on what everyone thinks is best to do in this situation. I really do want her as a friend still if possible, and know it was an absolutely all-time stupid move to do things like that when someone has a partner.. this is the first time I've really slept with someone and lost all control and completely fell into lust - usually I'm much better at not thinking with my dick. I regret that anything ever happened at all - its not worth losing a friend over a bit of fooling around. I truly don't think I did anything wrong or to make her feel uncomfortable, or I didn't think so until this morning when she texted me that (as in the past she's always said she feels very comfortable around me, and when we were intimate she was very into it as I was). It just feels like if allegations were to be made, you are on the losing end if you're on the defense. Seems like not much you can do. Anyways, advice appreciated... other than don't sleep with already taken people ever again - I know that one for sure now.
I have theorized she feels extremely guilty regarding her girlfriend and deciding to not tell her, and she comes from a somewhat conservative country and says that she won't have sex outside of a long-term relationship, but then she did this with me - so I half-wonder if she does not trust herself around me and that's why she wants distance. She has told me she's cheated before in previous relationships. Or maybe it really is that I make her feel uncomfortable for some reason despite her enthusiasm to give me oral/handjob just 24 hours ago, in which case I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to proceed and defend myself against possible untrue allegations. I don't think it'll go that far, but I want to be prepared if it comes.
Thanks everyone.
Einsamer 3mo ago
Not reading all of that in detail.
What else do you need?
Reply "Ofc I respect that. No problem.". Don't say sorry, don't admit anything, pretend nothing happened. Even between the two of you and especially on any recordable medium. Otherwise, bonus points if you act a bit beta so that she's not as pissed.
Yeah, that's how your text reads. And I'm pretty sure that's how you will act, regardless of what advice you will get here. Good luck with it, but you are playing with fire.
nonengr3r 3mo ago
I am, yes. Shouldn't be, never will think with my dick like that again. Thank you.
I fucked up and texted I regretted things and acknowledged stuff happened - bad idea, wasn't sure what else to do. Won't say any more over text/recordable mediums, won't happen again
Lone_Ranger 2 3mo ago
you still dont get it... when you say
'never will think with my dick again'
it proves to me that you are still 100% beta.
AbusiveFather1 3mo ago
"you were comfortable with DEEEEZ NUTZ in your hand yesterday"
chill, lesbian relationships don't count
[deleted] 3mo ago
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nonengr3r 3mo ago
Thank you for the advice. Much appreciated.
I think on 1 and 2 you're right - that is much of it. She's always said she doesn't do casual sex before, and then did it with me, and is now realizing how slutty this makes her seem.
You're right about the "i'm here for you" thing - a few minutes after I sent that I was thinking why the fuck would I say that - I shouldn't have said anything like that.
On girl friends - you're right about this, I've actually whittled down girl friends only to her pretty much... all my other close friends are men, which I much prefer.
Do you advise I text her again to make it clear to her i'm not ashamed of anything, you mean? Was just going to go no contact, and It'd make it look like I'm going back on saying I'm regretful.
Maturin_nj 3mo ago
This is why the guy friend writes a wall of emotional text . Listen to the guy above- never be friends with girls to be taken seriously.one of the biggest mistakes in the niceguys arsenal.
nonengr3r 3mo ago
Thank you, appreciate the advice. I'll take it to heart.
JamesSkepp Moderator 3mo ago
You are correct in the explanation of the "buyers remorse" but the reason for her behaviour is different. She knows he's a player, she remained in his proximity, she drank and smoked weed AND decided to "cuddle". She knew what's likely going to happen. IOW she was DTF.
The reason for her bahaviour change after she left is b/c the OP didn't fuck her. She exposed herself ("im here to get fucked" - if you can read the signs correctly), she fooled around ("im such a slut and i looove it" - the looove it part is b/c she feels horny and aroused so being a slut feels good in that moment) but after OP didn't pull the trigger she now knows: the guy is not the alpha that fucks good, the guy is not a guy who "gets it", she is now left with "im such a slut" but without the good feelings, she now knows she exposed herself to a beta and that's why she is "uncomfortable".
This compounded the issue further.
@nonengr3r
ObliviousDuck 3mo ago
This. It needs repeating: If you do anything more than kiss a girl, you better fuck her the same day or it will most likely trigger massive ASD and she'll friendzone or ghost you as soon as you leave her sight.
Musicgoon78 1 3mo ago
Let me help you with some insight. I have never even been close to some sort of me too bullshit or legal allegations. I'll tell you why. Because I'll give a woman that good dick and push her boundaries a bit past her comfort zone. She wants to experiment and I'm the guy to do that with safely. Now if she wants to play that game she will have to explain all the dirty texts and fantasies she's sent me, all the unsolicited pussy pics and the enthusiastic videos of her with my kawk in her mouth or other places. Don Juan's aren't weak. They don't get me too'd. No chick wants it getting out there, all the rules they broke, all the boundaries they pushed, and just how depraved their dirty little minds are. How they gladly submitted themselves as som guy's own personal fuck toy.
Now this isn't a special snowflake homie. This was a girl wanting dick and you came up way short from what she had hoped for. In other words "she feels majorly rejected". She was throwing it out there. She offered to suck you off and you didn't let her. Thinking with your penis my ass. You can't finger a bitch get her worked up and leave her with female blue balls. All or nothing player. These half steps are some bullshit. If you had let her blow you or jerk you off, this wouldn't be a problem. You fumbled the ball. She was worked by up to reel you in with her feminine wiles and you didn't bite. So she feels like rejected dog shit. Women don't take rejection well at all.
So, what are you doing friend zoning her and telling her you feel regret or bad about what you did? You just turned it into an unfortunate event that was a negative experience. You twisted the fucking knife. This is the exact type of behavior that can get you into some very big legal trouble. Never tell a girl that you regret being sexual with her. Hurting her like this could cause huge backlash.
Now don't start hamstering about her feeling bad because of her girlfriend. That's bullshit. She's a grown woman and makes her own decisions. Don't give her an out. If you had fucked her she wouldn't even have given her girlfriend a second thought. Do you know how many girls have been willing to be my secret side piece? They've offered it or even cucked their husbands. I don't have to ask.
Your best bet knows is to simply shut the fuck up and leave her alone so this doesn't escalate. I doubt it will unless you push things.
Let this be a lesson. Either do something all the way or don't do it at all. This platonic friendship is likely over.
[deleted]
nonengr3r 3mo ago
Thank you for the hard truth. You're right.
I'm still young and inexperienced with women compared to many here, so I appreciate the chance to learn. First time in a situation like this for me.
I'll leave it alone, no contact. She's from a somewhat conservative Asian country so I doubt she'd pursue any legal means, but her girlfriend is American, so I suppose that's a possibility if she told her I pushed her into it or something like that - still doubt it, though.
Thanks again.
[deleted] 3mo ago
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First-light 3mo ago
I am sorry to hear this. It must be worrying. I think this sort of thing is a real danger to young men who are actively pursuing girls -some will have buyer's remorse and in the current legal and moral climate where men are always considered bad when women are unhappy or unsettled, this can allow for some serious injustice.
I don't think the risk in your case is high. The mistake you made was expressing regret in a recorded medium. It could be construed that you have done something that you feel you ought to apologise for, when actually you are just sorry that she is sad.
I would not give her any more material that she has to rationalise. So just give her the space she wants. Likely the wheels of her mind will just run down then.
If she ever messages you again on the subject, you need to try to get it in writing (without it looking unnatural) that anything you have admitted to having done beforehand (and only that, don't add material) was enthusiastically consensual. Definitely don't push this in a legal sounding angle or it will do more harm than good.
So for example to clarify your feeling bad comments earlier, you might write; I feel bad we crossed a line in our friendship, especially when you have a girlfriend. I think the mistake was deciding to crash out in my bed together when actually, as events proved we there is some attraction between us. If you didn't have a girlfriend and we had not been friends for a year and a half I would not regret a thing, There is nothing to be ashamed of in what we did -two people discovered they were attracted to each other and made out- its only natural, it just wasn't appropriate for us to have been those two people. So sure I will give you a bit of space and we can see if we can go back to where we were but please don't beat yourself up for kissing me and pulling me near, that's just natural, the error of judgement was putting ourselves so close to start, so that we let nature take its course.
You can find your own words but you see where i am going, you are setting out your stall clearly. You are showing what actually happened and you have done nothing bad.
But first of all I would leave it alone. Its like picking a scab. You think it would just be better if that loose bit in the corner came off and before you know what you have enlarged the whole hole. Just let her settle herself down and it will probably all be forgotten.
redhawkes 2 3mo ago
Wtf have you done you retard lmaoo
You stepped on your own dick with that beta apologetic text and only gave her a weapon to use it against you. She thought you were a player, but turned out a wimp, hence the buyers remorse. The worst fear for a woman is to be pumped by fake alpha.
Should have just replied with "ok if that's what you want" and leave it at that. Now expect her to come up with some trickle truth to her gf and make you the bad guy that jumped on her. This is why FRAME is important af, you need to be congruent, not half ass it. She was aching for dick and you gave her blue balls lmao. Read on DEERing. Your text is pure cringe.
Put your phone aside and don't make it even worse by texting her.
nonengr3r 3mo ago
I'm still inexperienced. Unfortunately, didn't have almost any male role models growing up who could teach me this stuff, and grew up in a blue pilled heavily liberal environment. But I'm trying. Have to learn by fucking up, sadly. Appreciate your harsh truth response. Thanks.
mattyanon Admin 3mo ago
ok....... NEXT.
Fucking NEXT dude.
yeah, this shit happens...... don't worry about it, but do plan for it.
Specifically: never admit to anything happening. No texts about what you did. If there is proof you did it, it's easy for her to spin it as non-consensual. If there isn't any proof anything even happened, then legally it's extremely difficult to do anything.
It's extremely unlikely to proceed to legal consequences because there was no actual sex.
Well, this is standard female misphrasing. She probably means "I don't want sex with you but if we're together it might happen" or it means "I regret what happened". Her prhasing is a way to blame you for her not being comfortable with what happened. Standard female bullshit.
Problematic_Browser 1 3mo ago
Admit nothing, deny everything, sever contact
Lone_Ranger 2 3mo ago
Much to learn you have. So many mistakes in one fucking post. Here are your mistakes;
WTF are you doing replying to that SMS? Your text made everything worse, 100x worse. She is trying on the 'retroactive consent withdrawal' and you dived in and validated it, in fucking writing. Retarded.
she offered up the goodies, you declined, and she is now livid. You went to bed with a woman, and did not fuck her. That's about as insulting to a woman as you can get.
you think she is a 'friend' - when will you realise that men cannot be friends with women? not after about age 14 or so. Pre puberty its fine, but after puberty - its always the men who suffer.
Interacting with gay / bisexual women? Fucking retarded. A woman that says she is 'bi' is basically saying that she hates men.
This entire post is super beta. Read the side bar, and then read it again. And then realise that you need to shed a decade of blue pill programming.
I don't mean to insult you - but how did you get so beta? were you raised by a single mom? What happened? In a way, it doesn't matter what happened - you are young, you are ready for a change.
nonengr3r 3mo ago
Thanks for the harsh truth comment.
I was raised with an extremely blue pilled father who did basically everything my mom said, and had zero male role models to look up to (Actual ones - not blue pilled beta cucks), grew up in a liberal town, liberal friends and family, raised by "strong empowered women all around" etc - had no choice in where I was brought up. Doing my best and trying to improve, and I feel fortunate and lucky I found this community to learn from. You're right on all accounts. Frankly I'm still very inexperienced with women compared to almost everyone else here I imagine, and had no one to teach me this stuff, unfortunately. I do think I've improved to an extent, but have a hell of a long way to go, as you said.
Thanks again.
Lone_Ranger 2 3mo ago
don't be too hard on yourself - you are young and have lots of room and time to grow.
Be kind to yourself - read and learn and grow.
Think of RP as a way of gaining your freedom, for a happier and healthier life. Its NOT a resouce for men that want to be incels or hate women etc.
The irony of it is this: If you do exactly what women say they want you to do, if all men were to be 100% blue pilled - women would be (are?) very unhappy. And the men too.
The ironic truth is this - if men wake up, smell the red pill coffee, act accordingly (become more masculine, more assertive, more independent) then women flock to those men, and are happier.
You cannot make any women happy by doing what they say they want you to do.
Lionsmane8 2mo ago
Women nowadays may flock to alpha men, but once they figure out that they can't saddle them, they fly back to their beta comfort zone.
Lone_Ranger 2 2mo ago
They flock to alpha men to get railed, and then one of two things happens:
They acknowlege the alpha mans authority. they become feminine and submissive. They grow into a complete woman. They form a happy union.
Lionsmane8 2mo ago
Yeah.
Most are in category 2.
Lone_Ranger 2 2mo ago
true.
the category 1 women are much rarer. Most women are simply not willing / able to change.