Been with a girl for three dates off online dating. Didn't get to fuck or kiss her, but all the steps in the escalation ladder were done. Asked her on two dates, couldn't kiss her off those dates because she was repelling me. So I thought time to just withdraw cause not getting what I wanted. Told her to ask me out if she wanted to see me again, in a way giving her a last chance. Third date she brought up the "What are we?" chat in a negative light, she said when we spend time together she only sees me as a friend. Then gave some random cop out excuse.
I proceeded to tell her that I'm not interested in dating her anymore, and that when I cut things off I do it clean (never getting back together). I might have acted a bit beta after that and some of the things I said afterwards. But at the moment I genuinely never wanted to see her again. And I thought I'm not spending time on a girl who's basically admitting to me that she doesn't like me.
I'm kind of new to this kind of stuff. Was this the correct response or could I have handled it better?
UPDATE: fixed some grammar and clarified some things
Typo-MAGAshiv 2 1w ago
Next.
TulioHumanos 1w ago
Yep, exactly what I intended to do from the start.
Typo-MAGAshiv 2 1w ago
Then why didn't you? Why did you keep wasting time, effort, etc that didn't pay off?
TulioHumanos 1w ago
I intended to next her the moment she said I'm confused / I only see you as a friend. Before that, I still felt like I wanted to give it a shot. I still felt like I was enjoying my time with her, so I continued seeing her till I felt like it was not enjoyable.
benzino 1w ago
You need to read the sidebar again and practice push-pull interactions.
You dont wait until she breaks it off to accept it. Pull back when she shows little interest. Don't reward her bad behavior with your time and effort. You showed that you were more interested in this relationship than her and that scares women away.
Musicgoon78 1 1w ago
If you don't get what you want out of the first date, don't go on a second. She wasn't interested. Life is too short to waste time with low interest women.
TulioHumanos 1w ago
I see, going to give my take on this as well. Because I was thinking of elaborating on this in my response, but didn't
The first date was good, and I wanted to see her again. The second date was iffy because I felt like I got everything I wanted out of dating her, but I thought might as well go on a last one if she asks me. Then I came into this date rather cold, but midway kind of changed my tone back to wanting to kiss her because I felt it.
Musicgoon78 1 1w ago
If she rejects your kiss after escalation, you're done. It's not going to go any further. There's no reason to see her a second or third time. It's just going to lead to frustration. I give you props for going for it. Unfortunately, not every date is a win. I've had some ones that were comically bad. But you do gain experience and that's what is valuable in every date. Keep on going. You'll be a regular Chad Thundercock in no time.
Justanaverageguy 1w ago
Not gonna bash you because you sound inexperienced or young or both. But for the future, you never ever ever want to bring up the “what are we?” talk…..especially on the 3rd date. On the negative side you might have scared her away with feeling pressured BUT on the positive side you made her tell you how she feels “sees you only as a friend” and didn’t waste anymore time. Good job on that.
TulioHumanos 1w ago
I didn't, she did, and I was very grateful that she did.
Typo-MAGAshiv 2 1w ago
If you haven't even fucked her yet and she asks you that bullshit, your answer is "nothing".
TulioHumanos 1w ago
Isn't that response too alpha though? Won't it scare girls away?
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1w ago
No. She is not fulfilling her end of the bargain. It is a man's job to acquire sex and a woman's job to acquire relationships. If she's trying to obtain commitment before you get your piece, it's not going well
redhawkes 2 1w ago
No, it's called polarization. You either shit, or get off the pot.
Typo-MAGAshiv 2 1w ago
Nah, it's honest and candid.
Again, if they spring that "what are we?" crap before you've even had sex, is scaring them off a bad thing? I think not.
Caveat: "what are you looking for?" is a perfectly valid thing for them to ask, and volumes have been written about how to reply to that. I usually went with something along the lines of "I'm mostly looking to have some fun, get to know some people, and satisfy some urges. I'm open to more, but not necessarily seeking more" (not usually that wordy, and tailored more to the greater conversation). You'll learn to calibrate responses to this with experience.
Justanaverageguy 1w ago
You can word it as “I thought we were just dating and getting to know each other?” Turn it back on her with that response.
TulioHumanos 1w ago
Honestly, conversation is pretty hazy, but I think I said something along those lines. Not going to lie her confusion was also a major turn off for me. I've gotten fuck yes responses before, and I didn't want to continue wasting time with someone who was trying to half friendzone me.
Musicgoon78 1 1w ago
Scare her away from what? Putting you in the friend zone?
Typo-MAGAshiv 2 1w ago
Haha, fucker beat me to it!
MrSupreme 1w ago
You took the best decision in the world,move on to other women who will be thrilled and excited to see you,at least.
benzino 1w ago
This is so unneccessary and BP. Next time you just ghost her or say Okay. You don't owe her any explanation. You are the prize and if she isn't up for the ride (or ride you) then it's her loss.
Keep her around on social media though, she might come back later but that's for another discussion. There's a possibility of lay but it's definitely not now. So in short: soft next and expand your roster.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1w ago
Keep in mind newbies often can't just cut the cord like that. Newbies being overt is often the first step towards having a spine. More experienced guys ghost without caring if their phone even buzzes with her name and that her name pops up it's random digits because he already deleted the number and doesn't care and she doesn't even know
Newbs don't think like that though. They need clear end points when they start learning self respect and de-pedestalizing women. To newbs, getting women is a monumental feat, so ending their experiences with them is usually also some monumental encounter.
Experienced men don't give a shit because when they wipe away women from their lives like a shit stain on the inside of the toilet bowl they already know they can get a new one and with barley expending effort. Experienced men treat pussy how it should be, something that isn't a big deal
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1w ago
Either: you escalated poorly to the kiss before any real attraction or vibe was established
Or:
She was never going to be interested and is wasting your time
Or
Possibly both.
Assuming your kiss attempt wasn't awkward and out of place you should have nexted that shit on date 1.
I don't know. You only described the rejection. However, I'm not going to just blame her. She gave you three dates. She was likely hoping for something. My guess is she was interested enough and her "what are we" was womanese for "we are going on dates but the vibe is too platonic other than out of place moves on me."
My guess was that she was interested and lack of experience and reading the room as a newbie partially doomed you. Either way women should be putting in effort as well, not just expect dudes to heavy lift the whole vibe so you shoyhace nexted anyway
This is of course just conjecture. You hardly provided any actual details of the date, how it went, or any field report context for any of these escalations or how they were done, leaving users to connect the dots for you.
So I can't really say for sure. Just educated guessing
TulioHumanos 1w ago
I'll do a minor description of my first attempt at kiss escalation because it is probably the most relevant:
Basically we were at a place and she was sleeping on my chest. I was stroking her hair, and then she woke up. I made a comment about something on her face, then tried to move her by subtly guiding her chin. She proceeded to act stiff, so I didn't want to wrench her head to face me so I stopped there.
"we are going on dates but the vibe is too platonic other than out of place moves on me.", is there a proper way to make the moves not so out of place?
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1w ago
Okay, you're giving her boyfriend vibes and not giving her a "spark" (in womanese)
You're not giving her any tingles. Why tf is a girl you are on a date with sleeping on your chest or sleeping at all? Wtf
She should have so many tingles that it makes her alert not passing out. She is definitely saying "what are we" because you are basically her boyfriend and you skipped making any tingles. She is expecting tingles and the time you chose to go for a kiss was a total boyfriend move.
Her pussy is dryer than the Sahara, that's why she is rejecting your advances but simultaneously asking what you are. You have zero masculine frame and no tingles, while being her de facto boyfriend.
That would confuse any woman. They are expecting men to rock their worlds with good frame and tingles and she has no idea wtf you are doing
Improve your game, stop acting like a boyfriend on dates, and if you can't give them sufficient tingles on the first date bail
TulioHumanos 1w ago
Oh this makes so much sense I feel like I've been looking at things wrong. I have two questions:
My answer to the first question, please correct me if I'm wrong
Tingles:
Boyfriend Material:
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1w ago
Look, women WISH they could get boyfriends that are alphas. Alpha and beta are traits, not people per se
But for the sake of illustration, if you are on a first date with a woman, or a first Hangout, or you just met her for the first time. You want to come across as a guy who fucks and who "gets it", not as a chump
Your list of behaviors and their differences is more or less correct. You want to be the guy that fucks, that she has to lock down for commitment. You cannot be the guy she gets commitment from and then she wants to fuck. That doesn't work. Women are sexual, they are motivated by sex and emotions.
Think about it. Evolutionarily, women, our female ancestors before language was even in existence, went for valuable, strong mates. Those mates' children grew up healthy and survived. They didn't prefer weak and hapless men who would give them weak and hapless children unless they themselves were low value, in which case weak males would be able to mate with them and they had to go with it because they themselves didn't have a choice.
That evolutionary hypergamous programming didn't go out the window. Women pursue men who are dominant and can give them strong children. Our female ancestors would fuck CaveChad and then hope he stuck around or she's die during pregnancy or early childcare unless some Cavesimp stepped up to help. Mating came before sticking around.
You need to be that strong mate (who fucks [i.e. tingles] who she then wants to make sure sticks around. Much of female behavior and drive is evolutionary. Thus you can't be a beta fag boyfriend up front. It confuses them.
It confuses them on an instinctual level but they don't know that. Hence you get the "what are we' question before you've even stuck it in. She instinctually knows something else should also be happening in this situation (that and from previous lays where she spread her legs) but she isn't going to be able to word it. Women aren't logical like that, she just knows something is wrong and can't explain that to you because, woman.
TulioHumanos 1w ago
Oh so based on my intuition as well and what you have said I see it now as only really swap to boyfriend mode once I've decided that I want a LTR with a girl or alternatively fucked already.
I have two follow ups:
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1w ago
No, you shouldn't swap to boyfriend mode at all. It's her job to acquire a relationship not yours. It's your job to get sex. You shouldn't "decide you want an LTR" you should decide if she's worthy of an upgrade to LTR IF/WHEN she keeps pushing for it
First-light 1w ago
You have to stick to your guns and not get friend zoned. You did this, so its a success. One could almost always have handled a tense conversation better. In this case it doesn't matter as its a next. She won't be a future feature and you were not unkind or rude.
If she is not enthusiastic at the start, she is almost never going to be enthusiastic later. Might take time to warm up and open up but the direction of travel has to be positive. If you can't kiss her after that time, she is clearly an emphatic no. Its not modesty, its not nerves, its not reserve, it not worrying about her reputation, she is just not that interested and wasting more time is not a good idea. Well done.