Im a very short guy (5.3) and for Most of my life I've blue pilled as hell due to societal brainwashing, i Found the red pill about a year ago and started implementing it, ive build a nice body and attempted to learn game but nothing seem to work, a while ago i fell down a bunch of black pill communities and become obsessed, everything they said just clicked and made so much sense, eventually i stopped visiting those sites cause they completely ruined my metal health but they wrapped my perception of women to an extreme level and complete destroyed my self esteem, but its not like women even try to hide their disgust for short men, its socially expectable for women to shit on short men
At this point I legit don't even care about spinning plates of having lots of sex, i just want one good girl and to feel that sweet teenage type of love cause i never expressed it, i just watched life pass by without expressing any of the important developmental milestones (like the fist kiss, first girlfriend etc) just because god decided to fuck with me and make me undesirable to literally 99 percent of women
I know that most of you will just tell me "just stop being a bitch a man up" but im genuinely asking for advice cause o really need it.
ogrilla99 2mo ago
There seem to be a fair number of blackpill guys on these forums lately. That's fine, everyone's welcome, but do realize that most people on here will try to convince you that blackpill is not the way to go. I'm going to address a few of the other replies first:
@sean_karaya - I get you're trying to be helpful to the OP, and you ask a good question: why do you feel the urge to come out of blackpill thinking? But your analysis is fundamentally wrong for one important reason: the things that redpill tells you to do aren't "costs". Even if you never get a woman ever, the changes you make are actually "gains". It's like a Martingale strategy if, every time you doubled down, even if you lost, you still came out ahead.
What do I mean by this? Let's take a simple example: lifting. Sure, it takes time to go to the gym. But even if you never attract a woman by your better body, you've become healthier, eating better, etc. Even if you remain blackpill, that is a benefit to your life. This is where PUA and TRP are fundamentally different: PUA is about learning skills for picking up women that are otherwise useless. Knowing how to work through shit tests, or escalate kino, doesn't really improve your life in the non-relationship sphere. In contrast, TRP is about improving your life, and then secondarily attracting girls because your new life is fundamentally more attractive to them.
Even the improving your life bit is based on what is important to you. Whereas PUA is often about everyone learning the same very specific techniques, TRP focuses on general principles. For example, your career. Yes, being richer will help you attract women. But even if you don't want a woman, being richer will help you have a better life. And importantly, TRP doesn't tell you how to get richer, or how much constitutes "rich". It doesn't say "everyone must become a billionaire hedge fund manager. There is no other way". Rather, we say, think about what a successful life means to you, then get off your ass and build it. If you'd be happy earning $100k in a trade (like plumbing or electrician) because that leaves you more time for your other pursuits rather than busting your hump for 80hrs/week, then that's great. Do it. And then enjoy the type of women who will be attracted to men with those careers. For better or for worse, they won't be the same type of women that are attracted to a billionaire hedge fund manager (maybe that's a good thing :-)
So bottomline is that your analysis rests on the idea that redpill is some sort of investment strategy that only pays off if it results in women. Otherwise you've lost money. The truth is that, if you do it right, it's an investment in yourself that pays dividends regardless of your success with women. The women are a side benefit.
It may be that the ideal life you imagine for yourself is one that happens to not attract a lot of women. Fair enough. At that point, you need to decide if there's scope to change your goals to accommodate your goal of attracting a woman, and if you feel that's too much of a sacrifice, then you can accept that women won't be a part of your life.
But so much of blackpill advice I see is sort of a learned helplessness, this automatic assumption that nothing you do will ever get you a woman, so why change anything? Meanwhile, they don't see that, forget about women, they're miserable with the rest of their life too, but they use black pill to argue for why they shouldn't bother changing anything. "Lifting won't work, bro. It's all about the specific angle of your chin. That's the only thing women care about." Yeah? Okay, fine. But even if you believe that, why not lift to improve your own health? crickets
I've never found a happy black piller. In this way, I distinguish between blackpill and MGTOW. Many MGTOWs are quite happy with their life, precisely because they are pursuing a life that's meaningful to them, and have accepted that that life path will not include a woman. But black pill'ers, at least to me, and I recognize I haven't spent much time in their communities, seem to be miserable and blame the lack of women for all their misery, refuse to see that even the rest of their non-relationship life is shitty and causing them misery, then refuse to change anything in their life because they're convinced all their misery is due to women, and since that won't change, what's the point of changing anything? As @whytehorse2021 says it, it's nihilism parading as relationship advice. Nihilism is very attractive when you're looking for excuses not to improve.
@mattyanon - I fully agree with this. When you get to a certain level of attraction, you'll find that finding plates isn't hard. There were points in my life where I was beating them off with a stick. But it's always hard to find that one good woman. Not impossible, but hard. Ironically, once you have experience with women, you realize they're human with all the faults and foibles that humans possess, and not these amazing creatures on a pedestal that you thought they were when you're blue pilled, and that's when you get depressed, because you realize just how rare a good woman truly is.
In my blue pill days, I thought every woman is great, so despite all the rejections, I still had a great chance of finding someone at some point who would "love me for me". Then in my early red pill days, I saw that most women aren't great -- a lot of them are quite shitty really, so it's actually harder to find a good woman than I originally thought, even though my ability to attract women had increased. Then later on, I realized that yes, it's hard, but it's always been hard; it's just that in my blue pill days, I just didn't know it. So while the truth hurt, at least now I knew it, plus I had a better ability to try to find and attract a good woman.
So with that, here's my advice to you. Being short sucks. There's no way around it. And there's no way to change it. I really don't suggest going the surgery route with limb lengthening and all that BS that some hard-core black pill'ers think about. It means that you will have to work harder to attract someone than a guy who was gifted with a 6ft stature -- not to mention all the other advantages he gets such as better jobs, more respect from peers, etc. And yes, that's unfair. There's no moral reason why the tall guy should have an easier life than you. But then again, 99% of the shit that happens in life (good or bad) has no moral reason to occur. Some people win the lottery and never have to work a day in their life again. Some people don't. You can either focus intensely on this one part of your life that you can't change, imbue it with powers it doesn't have, blame all your other failures in life (including the lack of women) on this one thing that (conveniently) you can't change, and use that as justification to therefore change nothing in your life and continue living in misery.
Or you can view your height as what it is: one (albeit important) factor in a zillion factors that determine your attractiveness to women. Accept that in this specific factor, life dealt you a bad hand, but that in other parts, life probably dealt you a good hand. After all, would you rather be a 7 foot tall Kenyan who starves every day and was born in a slum in Nairobi, or a 5 foot 3 American who has time to read stuff on internet forums and improve his life? :-) If you're able to accept that height, while important, is only one factor, and regardless it's one that can't be changed, so no point in fixating on it, then you can focus on the stuff you can change, and change those things in ways that improve your life regardless of their affect on women. And most of the time, you'll find that the woman start to show up too.
Finally, I know that blackpill'ers dismiss personal stories because they think exceptions don't prove anything. But regardless, here's my story. I'm tall, but I'm an Indian in America. According to blackpill'ers, I should be fucked. Indians never get any women, certainly not hot ones. Not even their own women go for Indians, they all want to fuck white guys. Blah blah blah. And for a while, what they said was true. I didn't get women in high school. I wasn't a player in college. If I decided to pin all my romantic failures on my race, then I'd have probably gone down the black pill hole and decided there's no point to doing anything to better my life.
Instead, I guess I went into an extended monk mode, realizing that in my current stage of life, I wasn't very good at attracting woman, and maybe I should just focus on improving my life so that regardless I could be happy with or without women. It helped that I spent years recovering from a oneitis crush I had in high school :-) It wasn't until I started training for my eventually successful career that women started being attracted. And I started working out, traded my glasses for contacts, and learned how to be more sociable and outgoing. I didn't do any of these things specifically for women. I wanted my career because that's what I wanted to do with my life. Being more sociable helped me make friends (both male and female) which improved my happiness immeasurably. And so on. But all those changes also helped me attract women. Hot women. The type that, when you walk into a bar with her on your arm, you can't help but notice every guy staring at her. I ended up dating more blue-eyed blonde All American-type girls than most blue-eyed blonde All American-type guys do :-)
Now you can argue that I shouldn't have had to slog through a decade of some of the most hellish training on earth, and out-earn 99% of other guys, in order to date these girls. After all, not all of their past boyfriends had done so. Most of those girls, I'm sure, had slept with at least a few "losers" who had nothing going on except that genetics happen to make them look like Tom Cruise's brother. Yeah, it's not fair that that's what I had to do while some couch-surfing penniless dude who plays guitar in a band gets to fuck the same women. Yeah, life's unfair. But I don't count the things I had to do as a cost. Because I had wanted my career regardless. And a better body. And better social skills. None of these were "costs". They were investments in myself that paid off with or without women. The trick is for you to find similar improvements, that you can do, that you want to do, that will improve your life and secondarily attract women. And even if you still view these things as "costs", my choice was to either invest that time / money / energy, or else stay that skinny Indian dude with coke bottle glasses and no prospects and be miserable my whole life. Which path do you think actually "costs" my life more?
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2mo ago
I didn't even know this thread was a thing, give me time to read it. Probably tomorrow I'm with a girl into the next day rn
sean_karaya 2mo ago
I must disagree with you here. You clearly read my argument, and I believe that almost understood, but not completely.
The essence of my argument is not that the OP wont come out ahead.
For one, I used the term cost in a mathematical sense, and i think that did not came across to you correctly. Anything RP might inspire/influence OP to do, that he otherwise isn't doing is a cost, regardless of what the result is.
For the other, I notice, that you mention the Martingale strategy, but widely ignore what I actually said: Martingale Conundrum.
I will refrain from mentioning my instinctive alarm bells here, as I have no way to verify what my instinct is keen to assert about you. Your statement might, after all, be unrelated.
The argument was whether such costs would be worth the woman he might end up getting. That is why I asked him, would it suffice if he gets some random woman who jumps on his figurative train at a later date, no matter how supposedly otherwise conservative or traditional she might be. I even mentioned " A Gold digger finally throwing herself at you? " as a possibility to consider, which is what many (certainly not all) so called traditional woman is.
Unfortunately, it is not so simple. There is no free lunch, and that even applies here. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00429-023-02732-w
The exercise might negatively impact your brain function. Note the use of word might. Grey matter is important for processing new information, and other cognitive things, and fine motor control. In contrast white matter is more important for brute force, quick reaction and short term memory. In this study juggling performance improves, possibly because quick response improves.
You might find out other studies claiming other things, and may be even opposite of what I mentioned here.
In any case, a chest thumping approach to "lift = all good" is wrong, and I cannot blindly prescribe anything like that, without speaking to the person and understanding their wishes first. If the person is willing to loose his grey matter then sure.
I understand that this is not manly enough, alpha enough, dominant enough, bla bla bla - but as a professional in science, I can't do something that ignores the fine print. Feel free to come with any retort.
Almost there!
My point was to find out what truly is important to him. If he said woman, at all costs, after analyzing what I asked - SURE, go ahead, do the PUA thing.
Conclusion: You are the mod here, not me. If your position is no matter what, we do not perform any deeper analysis, we just through the RP bricks at the figurative wall [e.g. shower, lift, game lalalala], and see what sticks, then that's absolutely fine, and I will respect that; as well as refrain from a deeper analysis in future. But I'd then request you to add the statement clearly to the sidebar or sticky it, for a newcomer to see.
ogrilla99 2mo ago
Thanks for your reply. I'm glad we're able to have a civil discussion!
Re: The Martingale conundrum, I'm aware of this limitation. That as you double down, the amount you stand to lose keeps going up (since you're doubling your bet), but the net amount you stand to win stays the same (the amount of the original bet, assuming 1:1 odds). I didn't address it because I think that's where the Martingale analogy breaks down. I assert that, if you're making changes that you want to make regardless of whether it attracts women or not, then you're not really losing at every stage of betting. And if you're not losing at every stage, then a) there's no need for a martingale because there are no accumulated losses that you need to recover with the next bet and b) if you're actually winning at every stage (maybe not with women but some other improvement in your life or happiness), then your final accumulated win is not the same as whatever was staked in the first round.
I don't want to derail this conversation by going into the details of a Martingale strategy because I don't think it's a great analogy since I'd assert you do win at every change you make with TRP (if you choose the changes wisely), and because even if you lose, a martingale strategy isn't great. i mean, let's face it, it's usually taught as an example of what not to do in a casino or in investments, mainly because people don't understand that random doesn't mean you can't have a series of continuous losses, and that at some point either you will run out of money to continue, or the game will close before you're able to make another bet. Martingale doesn't somehow "beat" the stats. It just allows you a series of small wins before a catastrophic loss wipes you out. Whether as a gambling strategy, investment strategy, or life approach, it's not a good one (interestingly, it can be used in some situations where you earn something with each bet, and the losses don't strictly pile up; e.g. with options trading where selling options earns you the time value regardless of their final gain/loss, but again, that's another tangent :-). I don't mean to shut you down with that statement; you can keep discussing it if you think it's useful. I just think it breaks down when it comes to applying it to life advice.
Re: lifting. I've been meaning to write a longer post about this, but lots of guys dismiss this recommendation without understanding why it's made. There are lots of things that people can do to improve their lives, and lifting is only one option. So why is it the one that's brought up all the time? Because, without knowing the intricate life details of everyone who might be reading a post, it's the most broadly applicable to the most number of people. Are there people who have absolutely no interest in developing larger muscles? Yes. Are there people for whom lifting is a net negative to their health? Yes. Are there people (e.g. disabled) who simply can't lift? Yes. So yes, there are people who probably shouldn't lift or for whom that advice doesn't really apply. But if we're going to use examples when discussing with internet strangers, what example can we use that is more broadly applicable?
I brought up career as another example. But the problem with using it as a generic advice is that people have lots of different ideas of what a successful career means. It's often not even about money, but about what interests you, what you're good at, what effect you want to have on the world, etc. etc. etc. As dumb as it sounds to advise everyone to lift, it would be much dumber to advise everyone to become a hedge fund manager, or a plumber, or work at a non-profit children's shelter.
So when I tell the OP to consider lifting, it's not just a "hurr durr, just lift brah!" to be dismissed as stupid generic advice that doesn't apply. It's to use it as an example of something that you can do that would be a net positive to your life regardless of its effect on your ability to attract women. If the OP doesn't want to lift because he believes it might impact his cognitive function, fine. Everyone can make their choice. But there are hundred different things that the OP can do to improve his life. If he finds a reason to not do each one, then the problem is not with the advice, it's with his tendency to make excuses to not do anything. And, IMHO, that's what blackpill does. It makes fun of people advising "shower, lift, game" without understanding the deeper point (or why those specific things are chosen so frequently), that there are things you can do to improve your life that you should be doing rather than just complaining about the way things are. I mean think about it: would it be more generally applicable to say "just become a special ops soldier, travel to Bali, and learn to surf!" After all, that advice probably applies to somebody, somewhere. Put yourself in the position of having to give life advice to strangers on the internet. Can you think of a concrete example better than lifting that would be more broadly applicable, without resorting to just a generic "do what's important to you" that also gets dismissed for the opposite reason (it's too broad and generic to be useful guidance).
Telling someone not to do anything is quite easy. Giving a stranger concrete, actionable advice that is guaranteed to be a net positive to their life is very hard if not impossible. Telling a guy to lift is the closest that we can get to that ideal, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't understand the deeper meaning behind that advice, or dismiss everything we say because you happen to be one of the few people for whom that's not good advice.
Finally, I think we actually in large agreement here, that the point is to decide what's meaningful to him, what improvements to his life he would like to see, and then do them! Don't worry about women right now, and don't wallow in the fact that he's short, or other factors that he can't change. Focus on the stuff that he can change. And that if he does that, he will probably find that women start being attracted to him, but even if they don't, he'll be much happier regardless.
But I have one final disagreement: it doesn't have to be "women, at all costs". In fact, it should never be at all costs. TRP never says that either. First is to make changes that you want to make regardless of women. I would say that it's "women, at no to some cost". And you decide how much cost you're willing to sustain. For example, with my personal values, I didn't choose my career based on its attractiveness to women. Although I wanted women in my life, I wasn't about to make a decision that momentous based on it. Maybe some other guy might, that's his choice. But not me. It turns out that my career also happens to make me attractive to [some] women. That's great, and I enjoy that, but it was a side effect. In my calculations, this was not a cost. I wanted to do it, I did it, I'm happy that I'm in the career I am, etc. The effect it has on women is a happy side benefit.
Are there parts of my life where I made some changes just to get women? Yes. I could lounge around in 20 year old ratty t-shirts all day and be fine. But I figured I could change my wardrobe somewhat if that might attract more/better women. So I've probably spent a few hundred bucks on clothes that I wear when out on dates or at the bar, but otherwise keep in the closet. That's a cost of a few hundred dollars, and maybe a few hours of my time spent shopping. If it wasn't for my desire to attract women, I wouldn't have done it. So it's definitely a cost. But it's not the same cost as a lifelong career choice, and on balance, I'm happy to pay that cost for the benefit it has on my attractiveness. Note that even that has limits for me. There are women, some of them very desirable otherwise, who only date guys who are up on the latest fashions, wear the most expensive designer labels, etc. I'll happily agree that yes, those guys look much more fashionable than me, and yes, if given the chance, maybe I'd like to fuck some of those women (not marry them though). However, I'm not willing to spend the time and money to keep up with those fashion trends. That means I won't be attracting those specific women, and that's fine with me.
These decisions may sound banal, but that's because they are. Because everyone focuses on the big changes, like career, etc. while neglecting the simple, easy, daily choices. it's never "women, at all costs". Even lifting (I'm going to stick with my example, dammit! :-). There is no single, massive cost associated with lifting. Because "lifting" is not one single action. It is a daily decision: Today, am I going to spend 30-60 minutes lifting heavy stuff and putting them down? The next day is the same decision. Over time, you accumulate cost (the total time you've spent lifting, maybe any injuries you've had on the way), and weigh it against the benefit. And you stop when you think the costs are starting to outweigh the benefits. But it's not a single either/or decision. It's not that you must either be a fat couch potato, never lifting anything heavier than a cheeto, or you must be Arnold Schwarzenegger, spending 5 hours in the gym and taking steroids. No, you can choose your specific exercises (doesn't even have to be lifting), make a commitment today that you will do them, and make that small decision every day to do some sort of physical activity. And then stop whenever you feel you're satisfied. Maybe you've reduced your body fat percentage but without bulging biceps, but that's what you wanted and so you stop and go into maintenance mode. Fine.
Again, the point is that in life, there are very few large life-or-death binary choices. Thinking that there are is another defense against change, because it allows you to ignore the numerous small decisions you can make that your brain is actively trying to ignore. It's never "X, at all cost". it's rather: "how much do you want X, what are you willing to give up for it, then start with the easiest / least cost options that you would have done anyway, and move up the cost/benefit ladder until you reach a point where either you're satisfied with the results or the costs are more than you're willing to pay."
Even the article you link about the brain effects of exercise tell me that you're looking for reasons to dismiss any advice to lift, rather than trying to understand the larger message. The article only points out juggling led to higher sulcal depth. It specifically says that other activities have been all over the place: some lead to higher sulcal volumes (golfing), and some lead to lower ones (competitive dancing). And that at the end of the day, what all this means in terms of your actual cognitive function, they don't know. The only effect they do know (granted, it's the only one they studied) was that juggling led to improved coordination.
The fact that you're taking a paper about juggling (with inconclusive findings even for that sport), and then using that to dismiss the advice about lifting, is very telling. If I may psychoanalyze an internet stranger for a second :-), what it means is that your brain doesn't want to take the advice to lift. Even more importantly, it doesn't want to hear the deeper advice, to find something, anything, that you can do to improve your life, and start doing it. So, it's looking for anything to dismiss the advice on lifting. And once it does that even if it's something specious like a paper about juggling, it can smugly dismiss the rest of my advice as coming from the mouth of a dumb "shower, lift, game" douche-bro and therefore can be ignored completely. Am I close? I'm not trying to attack you, but your example is a great one to show what's a super-common attitude. The biggest power our brain has, is coming up with reasons why we shouldn't change. The hardest thing to do is to overcome that first instinct...
sean_karaya 2mo ago
This is surprisingly close to fempathy and I must disagree. The statement that
X => he'll be much happier regardlessis not a philosophy i subscribe to. I am not a african village elder advising a bunch of savages to do humba-humba and become . That is simply wrong. I am not in his shoes.I am not in need of being a drill sergeant here, that i can prescribe him how to be happy. I can ask him his position, and based on what he reports, I can only tell him what I know of certain processes, and the likely outcomes. I can't assert his mileage would be the same.
You will notice that I do not prevent others, nor do I counter others if they however go on advising that way. I answered on my own, as a separate reply without countering others. I am continuing here, because I have been tagged about my response.
My response is based on my personal philosophy
This is a bit of extrapolation. I insist that the idea is not dismissing your "advise".
It is my defense about my original post, specifically against your assertion
"But your analysis is fundamentally wrong for one important reason: the things that redpill tells you to do aren't "costs"."I hold my position that they are, and I will not handwave that.
ogrilla99 2mo ago
You hold your position about my advice even though you provide no evidence to support your position.
You asserted that my advice to "lift" has costs. And then you provided a paper that asserted that there may be costs to juggling. So I ask you, what costs to lifting do you assert that there are? Personally, I can think of two: the time it takes to lift, and the chance for injuries. Those are costs for any form of exercise, and for that matter, if someone says they don't want to lift but they'd rather run / play tennis / do yoga, fine. I don't think lifting is better than any and all other forms of exercise.
To use a psychological phrase, this is still a defense against change. Let me try it another way. I started by saying something general "decide what's meaningful to you, and then do it." The advantage is that this general advice is applicable to pretty much anyone. You dismiss that advice as a philosophy you don't subscribe to, because, well... I'm not sure really. You compare it to an African elder advising savages. Okay. I'm not sure what that means, but the real problem is that this advice is so general as to be meaningless, so it naturally invites people into flights of fancy about African elders and humba humba and people can easily dismiss it via any number of routes.
To prevent that, I can go the opposite direction and give very specific advice, that can't be dismissed as just some sort of philosophical hand-waving. "become a hedge fund manager". No philosophical mumbo-jumbo, just something concrete. But this is dismissed because not everyone wants to become a hedge fund manager, not everyone would be happy as a hedge fund manager, and not everyone has the aptitude to become a successful one.
Okay, so third try: try to find very specific advice, that cuts through philosophical nonsense, yet somehow applies to a large percentage of your audience (which may be an audience of one e.g. the OP that I know nothing about). There are very few such pieces of advice out there. One of them is to lift. It doesn't mean lifting is the only thing you should do, or that it's the most important thing in your life, or whatever. It just means, it's one piece of concrete advice that can't be dismissed with philosophical hand-waving and yet is good advice for a large percentage of people. That's its sole utility.
Getting down to this stage is an attempt to remove avenues for people's brains to find excuses to not accept the advice given. Because, as I said previously, that is our brains' true super-power: finding excuses.
When faced with that, your response is to send me an article about juggling and the possible effects it has on brain sulci. Your response is exactly why I don't give people generic advice to "exercise". Because people's brains will then scurry around and find something about some exercise somewhere that's harmful, and use that to dismiss all exercise. "Exercise? Do you know how many people die from BASE jumping?! Since that one specific exercise is dangerous, and since you didn't exclude it specifically, you must not know what you're talking about, and therefore, I dismiss everything you said. Now back to watching TV".
That's what you're trying to do here. You say your inclusion of that paper is a defense of my original assertion that the things that redpill tells you to do don't have costs. And yet, I never told you to juggle. I can't think of a single redpiller, or redpill article in the side bar, that advises people to start juggling. So how is a paper about juggling relevant? I'm happy to hear about the costs of lifting (heck, I mentioned two that I know exist). But that's not the point. The real issue is, your mind, in order to dismiss my advice to lift, has convinced you that if it comes up with some possible, theoretical risk to juggling (Something even the authors don't speculate about) then you can safely discard the advice to lift. Is that logical?
Just step back for a second and see what's going on here. Look at the hoops your brain is going through to reject a simple piece of advice about lifting. This is what I mean when I say finding excuses is our brains' super-power. And the reason why redpillers talk about lifting so much is because it sets a high bar that people have to cross to come up with excuses not to do it. Rejecting advice to become a hedge fund manager is easy. Rejecting advice to lift is hard. And yet 90% of the world's population finds a way to do it. Heck, even my own brain is not immune from this. I get busy and I drop off my routine, start gaining some weight, and then it takes a herculean effort to get back into my routine, even though I know from previous, direct personal experience, that I'll be successful and that my routine works.
You're welcome to accept my advice or not. I'll give you credit that at least you are polite and listen to my arguments before coming up with explanations why you disagree. Fair enough. You say you hold your position and will not handwave on that. Okay, but let me strip everything I've said down to one question which I hope you will answer: "Do you even lift, brah?" :-) And if the answer is no, why not? I'm genuinely interested to know what reason / cost / disadvantage it would cause in your life.
@Vermillion-Rx if this thread is no longer relevant and you want us to stop or take it to DMs, just let me know. I don't want to hijack someone else's post.
whytehorse2021 2mo ago
Black pill is nihilism. Average height in Asia for men is 5ft 4in. Similar in Latin America. Maybe you're just shopping in the shittiest market on Earth where everything is overpriced and low quality? 4 billion women on Earth dude...
1on1 2mo ago
Me and my friends go to clubs because they want to fuck something.They approach girls,I just stare at them and do nothing.I am 5’10 and they are 6’1.All 10 of us go home alone.
1on1 2mo ago
And while I wait there I see one or two 5’4 -5’5 guy making out with girls
1on1 2mo ago
And keep in mind, in the county where average male height is 6 feet
mattyanon Admin 2mo ago
This is harder than fucking girls. It's almost impossible for any man.
How's the body building going? How's the chatting/talking/charm going?
Wintergreen 2mo ago
Well my ex FWB dated an ugly guy who kind of looked like a squirrel when he smiled, and he was “a couple inches taller than [her], kind of scrawny… into Star Wars”. Somehow she liked him enough I guess.
I’d say get a sales job and SquirrelMaxx like he did. I imagine that he was like 5’ 4” but I think he was too dumb to be insecure. I think that not being insecure actually helps a ton. Get money, NOT to be a beta bucks BUT to be able to show her a good time, and perhaps she’ll be attracted to your internal qualities. Remember, even a gigachad can fumble a lay if his inner qualities are fucked.
Edit: Just for context, she said she was attracted to my height yet STILL I felt threatened by this guy. If I can be threatened by a short guy then the key thing to keep in mind here is that so much of this is just mental issues. I am now building my confidence after being needlessly insecure. I think my mind is so fucked that God gave me height just because he knew I’m too obsessed with comparisons to be able to survive if I was short. I went all black pill too and thought that I’m so low that I’m still beneath people who should be the ones to lean towards black pill.
orbilius 2mo ago
It definitely is. I’m sorry for you bro. I’m not going to lie to you to try to make you feel better. I’m just gonna say that I see the bullshit out there. Don’t let anyone gaslight you.
Are you working hard on your career?
joyboy 2mo ago
Dude honestly i felt the same as you, and sometimes I still do cause I have no positive experiences with women which leads me to think I’m unattractive.
What helps me is just observing couples and seeing a lot of short/unattractive guys pulling girls who look way better than them. It really is just about social skills and developing the abundance mindset, keeping things pushing if a girl isn’t into you.
RedStrat 2mo ago
There's an older guy at my ballroom that is a horse jockey. He's like 5'0" and has a super hot ballet dancer girlfriend. He's a joy to be around and a great dancer too. If you have enough social proof, your height won't be an issue for many women.
Work hard to follow your vision and be a man that people want to be around. Understand women are silly and irrational so their rejections should amuse you if anything. You wouldn't get butthurt if a 3 year old called you a poopy face, random females should be no different in your head. Approach girls to get phyiscal value and don't worry if they are too stupid to give it to you, just gg and go next and discard that stupid bitch because you are an absolute catch that she is too shallow to see.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2mo ago
Women still say horrible things to conventionally hot men, too. They are not the fairer sex they will shoot their scorn at anyone
sean_karaya 2mo ago
I also missed all those teenage joy. I am 5 feet 13 inches alright, but still a glass-wearing autistic loner. At the end of the day, I am with my doll.
Based on my self description, decide whether you want to read further or not
Reading your post, it looks like something is telling you, that you need to unswallow it. Can you articulate the reason?
I am not here to judge you - it can be your desire to not face the darkness, it can be your desire to pass the cookie -cutter (1.8 marriages, 2.8 dogs, 1.7 children, white picket fence...) .
It can be anything. I do not want to put words in your mouth, nor do i want to manifest your sentience on your behalf, nor do I want to define your emotional status.
But to address your question, could you articulate your reasons/wishes/drives --- so as to why you want to unswallow the pill exactly?
Based on this answer, we can proceed.
Beamerboy1 2mo ago
"so as to why you want to unswallow the pill exactly?"
Two main reasons: firstly i preferred when i was ignorant but blissful, now that i know the "truth" im absolutely depressed, there's no "one day im gonna find the one and shes gonna love you unconditionally" thought in the back of my mind to confort me and keep me going,
Secondly, even though the black pill makes so much sense to me what if it is bullshit and im missing opportunities to achieve the live im dreaming off, cause at this point my mindset is like "why put myself into the pain of practice game when its gonna lead to nothing, cause women think im genetically inferior, and don't what to even associate with me"
sean_karaya 2mo ago
Okay, if you're alright with it, let's explore various potential outcomes.
1. Life you are dreaming of. **Does it have a limit imposed by the Martingale Conundrum** ?The Martingale conundrum is a limiting factor in many mathematical games and strategies. To illustrate, consider a game with a 50-50 chance of winning. You pay X to enter. If you win, you get 2X back. If you lose, you lose X. So, what's the long-term strategy?
Let's break it down:
The strategy here is to continuously double your next bet. Over the long term, you will win something. However, the bad news is that the net win is no more than X, regardless of how many times you double. But your investment may have been very large. So, at some point, the payout becomes negligible compared to what you invested.
For the "missing out on the win" vs "what's the point if women aren't really into me", it seems to me that you might be concerned about this. You may correct me if I am wrong. There are three parameters to consider:
1.a) How much you can lose, no matter what (consider complete lose). For example, how many years are you willing to try, even if you fail? Or how much money are you willing to spend? 1.b) On top of that, how much more are you willing to invest [ This is additional ]. However, this investment is connected to a reward. 1.c) Finally what will constitute a proper reward for you? A ran thru woman that wets your p.p. after chad has thrown her away? A Gold digger finally throwing herself at you? A epiphany phase harlot?
I can't put the words in your mouth, nor should I. But an example may be like this:
`Beamerboy does not want to keep any stone unturned. He will spend maximum 1000 USD, and, chase box for 1 year, whatever ends faster, without any expectation in return.
If nothing happens in this range, he will try for 200 USD more, for 2 weeks more. In exchange, he will aim for Miss Wyoming 2026. [NOTE: Here, we are being explicit about our expectation]
If that does not happen, he will give up.`
Only you can come up with your own list of expectations.
Of course, the casino will ask you to continuously double your investment, and disproportionately argue that the minimal win of X is somehow justified. It's not. Only you can decide that.
Similarly, RP gurus and PUAs and coaches will also argue that you need to do all these things because real men ™ do these. But only you can decide whether to do it or not
2. one day im gonna find the one .... **What is the definition of _the one_** ?The discussion to follow is not going to match the typical super masculine high-value RP bravado.
You need to come up with the definition of the one.
Example: For me, the definition is an incumbent [emph.] women in my life; who shares her life and fertility with me, along with my developmental milestones, including teenage love, including the time i was struggling to find my rhythm, my niche, including all the less glamorous things that a real man ™ isn't supposed to have. Not one who arrives later after I made something up of myself.
Regardless of whether this is a realistic expectation or not, this is my definition. And since all these points are in the past, no woman can be the one for me.
May be for you it is different. May be for you it suffices, if any past her prime harlot finally finds God and is ready to submit. May be it is not. Either way, once again, I can't put the words in your mouth, nor should I.
You need to articulate all that. Specifically, you need to articulate how you are going to Verify [emph.] that she loves you unconditionally .
If you do not have a way to verify such unconditional nature, then you have no reason to unswallow the black pill.
In fact, you need to complete this step before addressing the Martingale Conundrum.
I will add one more thing here.
3. **Woman as the prize vs woman as the muse** ?Woman will say that she can be both - but usually, she first tries to be the prize. At this point, in my terminology, she can't be a muse any more.
But in any case. Do you find your intimate fulfillment, if you can attract a woman by being what they want you to be? [That is the strategy of may RP authors, but that is still simping] or do you find your intimate fulfillment if the woman is with you through your journey to become the king?
If it is #2, then you need to first decide whether you are within your limits of Martingale Conundrum or not.
I am 5'13'' in freedom and McRifle and Assault Burger units = 6'1'' . But I am an immigrant from the east who studied in the west, and currently working in tech, so my pool is either some sort of gold or status diggers, or leftover harlots. Regardless, I am out of this limit anyway.
In contrast, I have found surprising amount of peace in my doll. Yes I have a doll. I can imagine my doll to be the vessel of perfection as I want, which no woman will be - not even women from the east.
If you are within your limit tho, then you can blindly keep trying, regardless of your black pill status. If you are out - consider: dolls, surrogacy, and things like that.
This discussion is not a complete answer to your questions. If you have more questions, if something is unclear, please ask. I will be happy to answer within my capacity.
There is no rapid fire answer brother. This is an iterative process. Notice that I did not mention social proof, I did not mention le mindset, I did not mention game ... all of these are parts of the iterative process.
Various posters here are rushing to throw a stone at you that they imagine to be a silver bullet. Without any disrespect to them, their expertise and anything else, I do not subscribe to such approaches to finding solutions.
If you yourself however want a quick single step answer, then you are free to pursue that elsewhere as well.
Musicgoon78 2 2mo ago
I'm going to be a bit harsh here:
It's not the blackpill's fault you are in this position. It's yours. Fist step is to take responsibility. No one forced you into that toxic bullshit. You chose to immerse yourself in that group of losers. It's like blaming heroin for getting you addicted when you had an otherwise normal life.
So here's the truth: blackpill losers love to be a victim more than anything else. It's your choice to be a victim. I don't feel sorry for you. Sympathy is just another form of enabling your bad behavior for you. So, if you want me to feel sorry, fuck off. It's not going to improve your life.
Now you can go bitch on your incel forums. You come here for solutions.
•Practice gratitude. I want you to focus on all the good things in life. There are a bunch. If you can't think of things you are grateful for, slap yourself for being a bitch and think harder.
•Lift This is for your sense of mental and physical wellbeing. It develops positive habits. It a for of self care and gives you some accomplishment. This is not negotiable.
•Talk to people If you're going to incel forums it means that you don't have a good support system. If you have friendly conversation with everyone and you smile you will start spreading a positive attitude. You will find yourself making friends and soon enough you'll develop a support system.
•Accept Reality Some things you can't change. I have had epilepsy since I was a kid. Do I like it? Fuck no! But I can't change it so much don't let it define me. It's a side note. I have many short friends. One is actually considered a midget but does well with women. You can do better, but you have to try.
•Read the sidebar I can't express how many guys either don't read the sidebar or can't understand context. These are all the tools you need. If you don't understand something, ask us.
•Understand that you have a support system This forum is valuable and moreover, it's free! Take advantage of that.
I won't say man up. I'll say Sack Up and start doing the work. Make a decision to not be a victim and start enjoying life.
Musicgoon78 2 2mo ago
Wow, the mobile site autofucked my numbering and format. Way to be internetz!
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2mo ago
Downvoted for the spelling error and lack of taking responsibility right after urging someone else to do so
Edit: fag
Musicgoon78 2 2mo ago
I fixed it. Are you happy now phaggy?
Some of us have busy full time jobs.
Typo-MAGAshiv 2 2mo ago
You both made me lol, but I still downvoted you both because I'm a dick.
I feel your pain. That's why most of my shit is quick and dashed-off.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2mo ago
Lmao i was purely busting your balls.
I even downvoted myself for humor.
r/woosh
Musicgoon78 2 2mo ago
I still love you. No homo!
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2mo ago
Same man, no homo here on this site!
Typo-MAGAshiv 2 2mo ago
liar
yuo = fag0t!
MrSupreme 2mo ago
Take the white pill, define yourself in better terms to stop giving self-pity lame vibes to women and people in general. Black pill guys give off Unabomber vibes,except the Unabomber gets more bitches.
I'm 100% sure guys here are, or know some guy that looks like Danny DeVito and pulls pussy like Chad Thundercock, and no one can explain how and why.Reason is game,and a big part of it is your inner game, it even shows in your posture and expressions, and chicks read that like the newspapers.
On the other hand, make some peace with society,with the state of affairs as you see them and with your role in all of it. It can be a sad place sure, see you gonna have a sturdy mindset against the bullshit or are you gonna drown in sorrow for humanity's decline