Before, I thought it was a superficial level thing that occurs in the present with promises and things like that, such as “I’ll definitely call you!” when they either don’t intend to call and don’t think it’s a big deal to lie about that, or they genuinely plan to call but then they lose motivation ten minutes later and never call.
Now I’m starting to think that it can go as deep as gaslighting to an extent. I’m not saying that they would all hardcore gaslight and make you feel crazy, but it seems like they are likely to rewrite the whole story.
For example (made up scenario): Her: I’ve always been a Republican (Let’s say for this scenario that she actually truly always had been a Republican). Her: Bashes Republicans one day Me: I thought you were a Republican? Her: No, I hate Republicans. Me: You said you’ve always been a Republican. Her: No, Republicans are racist!
Is this type of stuff common? Is this part of “Trust actions not words”? Or is this some other pattern of retardation?
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1d ago
Actions that you observe are more important than what they claim to want.
Bonus points if their actions and words match
What is complicated about this?
Wintergreen 1d ago
In my example, the woman was actually a Republican and said before that she’s always been a Republican, then one day she had something against Republicans and went on to deny ever saying that she’s always been a Republican. That’s a different level of actions vs words because it adds in the element of lying about something she knows she probably said (since she knows it’s the truth), even if she doesn’t remember saying it.
My question is; is this part of the “Trust actions not words” guideline or is this some sort of different behavior entirely? Does “Trust actions not words” mean to suggest that in scenarios like this you shouldn’t be surprised that she retroactively denied saying something that she obviously said?
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1d ago
...
You really don't understand the premise or concept do you?....
A woman says she doesn't have sex outside of a relationship. She fucks you on the first date
Actions > words
It is seriously not complicated
The actions over words concept primarily concerns how women will pursue a sexual strategy that is socially unacceptable. And some times refers to lies they say when they are cheating.
It is usually 80% about women putting on a good girl act when she's just a regular woman. Women fuck men for a variety of reasons, including trying to lock one down.
Women often say they don't do X to avoid judgement when they actually do X because it say they do X would make them sound slutty and they don't want to sound slutty
I'm not sure what you're missing this is a remarkably basic RP concept
Wintergreen 17h ago
You’re missing my question. I’m asking if they gaslight you about conversations you’ve already had, is that expected behavior and does that fall into the “Actions not words” category or is that a separate behavioral concept?
oowiw 15h ago
"gaslight" = words and "conversations you've already had" = words
this is not actions vs words, this is just showing that words are unreliable
Wintergreen 14h ago
I guess the actions part I’m talking about would be, for example, seeing if she’s voted Republican, seeing that she might follow only Republicans on social media, etc.
Is that a common situation, where they’d say they never made the claim that they were always Republican even though they did make that claim? This is just a neutral example without being overly specific, so as to focus more on the concept than the subject of the example.
oowiw 13h ago
Voting is an action, but following on social media is talk - because you can see who someone follows, so it's about image, appearance. The key distinction is action has costs and effects, talk is about image or how someone appears to others. We don't know how she votes because that's private, we only know what talk she puts around that.
If you know she donates real money to republicans, for example, that's action. But a donation of $10 that she gladly shares to others that she did, that would be talk.
Wintergreen 13h ago
I see, so the main thing here is gaslighting then?
Vermillion-Rx Admin 12h ago
Actions > words isn't gaslighting dudfe
We are all reading your question as written and you're just plain missing the point
Wintergreen 11h ago
It’s called a question. Just because you have an answer doesn’t mean that the question was asked pointlessly.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 11h ago
1) zero anger typed. This kind of response to me is a presumptuous slap in the face. I don't know what your problem is
2) never said it was asked pointlessly. You are asking the wrong kind of question, i just corrected that women aren't gaslighting you. Their attempt to not sound like sluts isn't a gaslight, it's an evolutionary sociocultural defense mechanism to avoid loss of resources and protection. Men/society do not want to protect/reward sluts.
3) the fact you are leaving me this answer when you are seriously wrong about why I answered the way i answered, and you have these assumptions, is basically telling me to stop helping you. You just keep slapping me in the face for the way i answer. I'm probably not going to help you anymore, this shit is ridiculous
Wintergreen 10h ago
If you can’t see how annoyed and angry you sound in your comments then that’s a you problem.
Okay but if it’s not gaslighting then that doesn’t change the rest of the content of the question. Is the rest of the question actions vs words concept?
Vermillion-Rx Admin 10h ago
The fact that you are even reading it as anger is a YOU problem. Not the other way around. Yet more negative think. Consistent problem of yours. Additionally, I have repeatedly told you this is how forum talk has always gone. Again, you problem.
You know, some times, in an exchange, people answer one point at a time. Just because i answered the gaslight part, doesn't mean I wouldn't have answered subsequent follow up questions, or other parts of the post thereafter
But you dismissed piecemeal advice as a personal affront to you and negative traits of mine. So no, i will now not be answering the rest of the questions. I am not helping any more
That help bridge is seriously damaged
Wintergreen 10h ago
Why would I ask follow up questions if you’re going to just say “wtf” and act like I’m dumb over and over again? As for negative think, have you considered that when someone is talking to someone like they’re dumb that makes them feel negatively?
Take a page from @Typo-MAGAshiv’s book, or literally any of the other commenters here, to learn how to talk to someone with respect.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 10h ago
I can see that point.
Typo-MAGAshiv 2 20h ago
It applies to all people (men and women) at all times.
Words are empty, and talk is cheap.
Actions show character.
Wintergreen 16h ago
What about the gaslighting, is that common behavior or is it only found in very manipulative people who are more manipulative than the norm?
oowiw 15h ago
gaslighting isn't just manipulative people it's also narcissists who have built internal defense mechanisms against anything that clashes with their identity - they're not necessarily manipulative because they're manipulating themselves - thus when they gaslight you they actually believe they're telling the truth, they've already gaslit themselves to avoid anything that damages their identity. Most narcissists don't imagine and project grandiosity, they imagine and project martyrdom / victimhood.
Wintergreen 14h ago
So what about the people who aren’t clinical narcissists? Is narcissism required for gaslighting?
oowiw 13h ago
it sounds like you just need to look up the definition of gaslighting
Wintergreen 13h ago
I did, the part that seems different is that gaslighting is said to be intentionally manipulative. Does it count as being manipulative when someone wants to reframe the narrative about themselves/their actions just because they want to change the perception? Such as in my example.
Typo-MAGAshiv 2 11h ago
Reading through this thread, it seems you're conflating "gaslighting" with just good old lying.
For instance, your example about the chick who's Republican one minute and totally denies ever being one the next? That's just lying. Hell, your original question/topic of "actions not words" doesn't even apply, since there are no actions to observe.
here's an example of "actions not words" at WAATGM. Her words say "men 5'9" or shorter aren't men" but her actions were to give Mr. 5'7" a beej after he bought her Burger King.
As for gaslighting, it's when you fuck with someone in an attempt to make them doubt their own sanity, and it's named after a movie titled (wait for it...) "Gaslight". You'd do shit like rearrange the furniture slightly, and when your target asks "didn't this chair used to be over here?" you'd very sincerely say "no, it's been here for ages". You'd dump the milk down the drain and get rid of the jug, and when your target asks "didn't I just buy a brand new jug of milk?" you'd very sincerely tell them "not that I'm aware of". You'd go on with shit like that until they questioned their own sanity so much that they started to crack.
THAT is gaslighting.
your example is someone just lying their ass off.
Wintergreen 11h ago
What I based the gaslighting thing off of was the “didn’t you say that…” “No, [I never said that]”. That’s not gaslighting?
But anyway, if it’s not gaslighting, is the lying part of the words vs actions thing? Of course I’m talking about if there were some verifiable previous actions.
Typo-MAGAshiv 2 10h ago
Nope. Just lying.
No. Lying is just words, and she's going back on previous words.
This might help you understand:
Men and women are different. Way different. There's this pervasive lie that feminism has propagated over the past several decades that we're essentially the same minus our plumbing. The truth is, our (humans', both men's and women's) sex organs flood our brains with various hormones as we grow up and mature, and these hormones affect how we think, what we want, how we view the world, and how we communicate.
Men mostly communicate facts, information, etc. We rarely discuss our feelings, and when we do, we tend to be straightforward about it.
Women, on the other hand, rarely communicate facts or information, but rather how they feeeeeeeeeeel in that particular moment.
A helpful exercise is to mentally add the phrase "right now I feel..." to the beginning of anything a woman says.
So back to your example: "[right now I feel] I have always been a Republican". 2 days pass... "[right now I feel] Republicans are evil racists!"
That's how they lie so convincingly; they're expressing how they feeeeeeeel in that moment rather than any sort of objective truth. In their own heads, they are telling the truth.
Like what, observing her at the ballot box?
Forget your example for "actions, not words" or "ignore what they say, but watch what they do". It just doesn't fit.
Another example that does fit is most ASD (anti-slut defense). They'll say shit in their OLD profiles like "I'm not here for a hookup", but then suck you off within an hour of meeting up.
Wintergreen 10h ago
Okay everything you’re saying makes sense.
If they say that they didn’t say something that they did, then that’s just a lie to align with their current feelings? They don’t feel dumb for obviously lying when you’re literally referencing something they said before?
Typo-MAGAshiv 2 5h ago
Nope.
They truly believe what they're saying.
If you ever want to see them experience and display the human equivalent of a Blue Screen Of Death, confront her with audio/video of her previous bullshit.
Don't do this with a woman you want to fuck anytime soon.
Wintergreen 2h ago
Lmao wow that’s crazy, well that answers a lot of questions.
And the recording is a good idea lol
First-light 19h ago
Women have been known historically for changing their mind and embellishing facts. Its just fashionable these days to ignore any truths that show women in a bad light (while you can and must bash all the things men do that are bad).
Men and women both lie and gaslight. Women do it more than men because men have more reason and accountability. The fact that one has to tell someone this these days is a shocking indictment of modern society, education and culture.
Wintergreen 16h ago
Do they often gaslight knowing that the guy is aware that they’re full of shit? I thought this was only done by insanely manipulative people?
whytehorse2021 13h ago
In the military we used "trust but verify". It always works.