I'm back in the game after being out for almost 6+ years. I've lost my frame and gotten soft but still seeing some tinder girls.
One of my qualities or maybe a fault is that people are confortable talking anything with me. And one of the girls I'm seeing is actively on tinder trying to get "some more cock" (her words) that honestly has disgusted me and even though she's a plate I'm not sure how to approach this... Do I just end things, do I do an ultimate or a warning that if she chooses that path I don't even want to look in her general direction?
Anyways my primary question is how can I train my frame and where can I learn more about frame yt or something to read.
Thanks guys
ObliviousDuck 1mo ago
While you must declare and maintain your boundaries, don't do ultimatums.
Instead of saying: "Stop seeking other guys or I'll never see you again" say: "I don't like or respect girls who seek other guys".
The former is an attempt at changing her behaviour, the second is a statement of what you won't tolerate in your life.
EugeneRider 1mo ago
I figure either way at the end you are going to use your actions to police her actions. If she still does thing you dislike/not to your standards, you are still going to “walk away” to police her actions.
I don’t see any differences.
ObliviousDuck 1mo ago
Read the last paragraph again. The difference is in the reason why you do it, not in the external outcome.
If you were truly your own center, you wouldn't need to state the consequence explicitly, you wouldn't need to keep a scoreboard and constantly hang it in her face.
She's not there to be policed and manipulated by ultimatums. She's supposed to be a net positive in your life, and if she can't do that, you get rid of her.
EugeneRider 1mo ago
But the underlying message needs to be delivered no? “If you failed to meet my expectation X, then I’m going to leave your ass.”
ObliviousDuck 1mo ago
No. A quality woman knows very well if she fucks around with a quality man she'll get dropped.
SpiritualEnema 1mo ago
Yes, but you want her to come to the right decision on her own accord instead of browbeating her into submission.
She isn’t girlfriend status and doesn’t deserve any explanation.
You state your values (assert frame) and she either follows you or is gone.
EugeneRider 1mo ago
Narcissistic women ain’t gonna just listen to “your values”, most of the times these fuckers play around with words. Unless you throw some power plays they are not going to submit. I get the “You state your values (assert frame) and she either follows you or is gone.” part, but a lot of these women don’t care what you have to say because they are too entitled and self-absorbed.
From my experiences, dealing with this type of women requires you to shove power down to their throats in order to elicit compliance. Otherwise they’d just want their values to be your values, and your money to be her money.
But I get what you are saying — you can just quietly leave the situation and just ghost them.
ObliviousDuck 1mo ago
You don't "deal" with these types of women. You drop them from your life and easily replace them with well adjusted women who don't have pathological self-esteem issues.
FRITP 1mo ago
Thanks for this. I was pretty sure Ultimatums were faggot crap. Still I needed to hear this.
First-light 1mo ago
You know what you want -pussy and no sluts. The problem here is that pussy comes from a slut.
One way of fixing it is by asserting an external boundary -no sluts on my dick. Or you can assert an internal boundary -no sluts get into my head or under my skin.
Neither approach is perfect. The first approach denies you some easy pussy. The second one risks you letting things slide and bending to court a slut or starting to get drawn in by one.
Really it starts with "know yourself" What is the best route for you to assert your frame knowing your strengths and weaknesses, your desires and skills?
Know yourself is the first advice the ancients offered when consulting the oracle of Delphi. Any advice you get will have to be applied by you, so know what you want but also what your own abilities are. The other two pieces of advice were "everything in moderation" and "make a promise and mischief starts"
EugeneRider 1mo ago
If easy pussy comes from a slut… then the disgust towards the slut makes it a contradiction to fuck a slut…
“no sluts get into my head or under my skin” This is like trying to not being manipulated by sluts, but I often than not find out it is the other way around.
Also, this is where I see where that gold digger/prostitute/whore phenomenon comes from. They are all prostitutes.
P.S. What is the typical way to bed a slut? Will it be any different from a housewife? I figure in the process you still have to do some shit for her, or maybe even buy her some shit or gift her some things I suppose?
First-light 1mo ago
Life has its contradictions and dumping load in a pussy can be a huge draw for some guys at least some of the time. Sluts do disgust for sure but a lot of men even pay them just because they want to get a load off their balls into a woman. Sluts may have their place and uses in society. They make men feel good briefly.
Trying not to be manipulated by women you bang is a huge problem. It does trigger white knight behaviour in men. Its probably the biggest reason to avoid them because white knighting for a slut really produces self disgust.
Some guys can navigate it OK. Some can keep the cost of sluts small and not get drawn in (and yeah Briffault still applies to sluts -some value must come to them from the "relationship") Others (I would say ill advisedly don't mind the white knighting).
Sluts are easier to bed because they are hardened to being banged by strangers and being disappointed by a relationship not being happy ever after material. If you know how the drill goes, just give her the usual and she gives you the usual and it goes quickly where you both want it to. But yeah sluts need courting. In a one night stand scenario a guy may lose nothing more than the cost of presenting himself as high value and wasting time approaching. In longer relationships value must pass. Some sluts are a lot more expensive than good women, others are good time girls who just want to be made to feel good and that is not too expensive.
Women are not all prostitutes. Value, however, does pass form the male to the female in sexual relationships. Briffault's law is a law. A prostitute sells herself to almost anyone for what she considers a fair price. Nice girls want a life where you are their man.
EugeneRider 1mo ago
Thanks for the response
Man… I don’t wanna give any value to a slut, it fucking disgusts me… speaking from the bottom of my heart.
I don’t know how you feel… but I just don’t think prostitutes/whores/sluts deserve value at all. It’s repulsive. If I do give her value, I’m just whoring her basically.
My actual knowledge of the drill: Take her out on a date, and give her some money (or anything that has money value) afterwards, and see where that goes. Usually, in my past encounters with sluts (unbeknownst to me that they were sluts and not very deep in TRP knowledge at the time), they were constantly asking me for shit when I tried to initiate a sexual encounter with them. I didn’t give them jack shit because I didn’t feel like doing it — because it made the whole thing feel like prostitution which disgusts me. They weren’t prostitutes, they were just regular girls you meet at a club or some friends’ circles. So nothing ever really happened between me and them because I wanted to court them to be girlfriends, but all they were asking… were just money or anything valuable. Like… fuck… what is wrong with you people/whores/sluts? Again, paying that shit feels disgusting.
Man, I feel like they don’t deserve courting, they don’t deserve anything… but I get your point.
I have no idea how to do one night stands… I guess in longer relationships you gotta give her something valuable so that you can persistently bang her. However, wouldn’t that just become some kind of monthly expense? If your girlfriend is a “slut”, every time you want to bang her you gotta give her something ($100 dinner, $200 lipstick etc.). Then it just becomes a monthly subscription or some shit, purely prostitution.
I see that just straight up as prostitution no difference. Prostitution means “the practice or occupation of engaging in sexual activity with someone for payment”. If I give her valuable shit, and she in turn gives me sex. Man… this is just prostitution.
EugeneRider 1mo ago
Also, in the case of rapes.
With whatever we are talking about here…
Can I just see that, if a woman calls out a man for raping her, it’s just that he didn’t pay, or he didn’t “pay enough”? As far as I’m concerned, if you replace the word “woman” with “prostitute”, it makes total sense. If a prostitute calls out a man for raping her, well he mostly likely didn’t pay or didn’t pay enough.
Also, wouldn’t this lead to an even worse moral degeneracy whereas you can stop a woman from calling you for raping her if you give her enough compensation after the fact??? This is too diabolical that I don’t even want to continue thinking anymore…
FRITP 1mo ago
Thanks for this advice. Although I have a question that stems from English being my second language what does "make a promise and mischief starts" mean?
First-light 1mo ago
Don't worry, it is pretty hard to explain in English because its ancient Greek to start. Something is lost in the translation.
Essentially they were saying that if you publicly draw hard lines you can make trouble for yourself. "I take you to be my lawful wedded wife to have and to hold until death do us part" "Following a divorce the law says that a couple's assets are to be divided between them" "Single mothers out of work will be housed and provided for by the state" These are 3 pledges that cause a lot of mischief -they are clear public statements intended to do good but how often are they abused, ignored or worked around? Were they fair or realistic pledges to make to start?
I was saying you have to first have a frame that fits you -what do you want for yourself, knowing yourself? Does it feel a bit excessive and hard line or is it sensible and moderate? have you tied yourself into anything that might make trouble for you in future or deny you a good opportunity? You need to yourself be comfortable in the boundaries of your frame before you can effectively have others in it.
An application of the advice to this case might be "If you make a deal with a tinder slut that she no longer says she is looking for more cock how likely is this deal to be kept to by both parties? Could it make trouble over trust and deceit? Could you give in return for getting nothing?"
Copied from wikipedia; The third maxim, "Give a pledge and trouble is at hand", has been variously interpreted. The Greek word ἐγγύα, here translated "pledge", can mean either (a) surety given for a loan; (b) a binding oath given during a marriage ceremony; or (c) a strong affirmation of any kind.[30] Accordingly, the maxim may be a warning against any one of these things.
The correct interpretation of the maxim was being debated as early as the 1st century BC, when Diodorus Siculus discussed the question in his Bibliotheca historica.[31] In Plutarch's Septem sapientium convivium, the ambiguity of the phrase is said to have "kept many from marrying, and many from trusting, and some even from speaking".[32] Diogenes Laërtius (3rd century AD) also makes reference to the maxim in his account of the life of Pyrrho, the founder of Pyrrhonism.[33] Exploring the origins of the Pyrrhonean doctrine of philosophical skepticism, Diogenes claims that the Delphic maxims are skeptical in nature, and interprets the third maxim to mean: "Trouble attends him who affirms anything in strong terms and confidently".[34]
Analysing the various appearances of the maxim in Greek literature, Eliza Wilkins finds the opinion of the ancient authors on the meaning of ἐγγύα split between the two rival interpretations of "commit yourself emphatically" and "become surety". Among Latin authors, however, the maxim is universally interpreted in the latter sense, as advice against giving surety.
whytehorse2021 1mo ago
Once you separate women into whores or housewives, you can appreciate each one for what they are. I love them both but for different reasons. My housewife is loyal, nurturing, etc. My hoes always have their pussy on tap for me.