I’m not saying it’s exactly the same as a woman’s epiphany phase, but do 30 year old guys have an “epiphany” and start thinking about how they can’t compete with 22-24 year old guys for a 22 year old girl?
And I’m talking in terms of actual attraction from that 22 year old, not just her wanting to take advantage of the fact that he has money.
Hugo_The_Great 2mo ago
Sure, you won't look as good as 35 as you could've at 25, even if you stay fit. Hairline for many guys especially.
Anyway, you just gotta have compensation. More confidence, more life experience, more money/status compared to your 25yo self.
As another guy said, if all you had were looks at 25 + dgaf attitude, and at 35 you haven't become better in any other regard, those looks will have partially faded. But still can't compare female wall/epiphany phase to men. In women's case, the drop off is 10x steeper.
And yes, most early 20 girls are not looking to date 30-something men. But more than enough are open to it if your cards are good enough.
Wintergreen 2mo ago
Thanks for the breakdown. What about early 20s and late 20s, like a 21 year old girl with a 28 year old man?
No-Stress-Cat 2mo ago
I didn't have my epiphany phase until I hit 50. I guess I'm just a late bloomer.
Just kidding. I didn't have an epiphany phase. I just stopped giving a fuck.
AbusiveFather1 2mo ago
Yeah, I think so. I'm not even 30 and I already see that early 20s girls don't look at me the same as they did when I myself was in my early 20s, and the girls from that age group that do find me attractive must be okay with dating a guy that is older than them, which is a minority of girls.
I also started getting sexual attention from women in their 30s and 40s, as opposed to them looking at me as a child. Obviously I'm bummed out: like any healthy man, I'm into early 20s women and not older ones. Coincidentally, I grew to be very much against dating not only a woman that is older than me, but also a woman that is the same age as me, when before I definitely flirted with the idea of dating a cougar (and have done so too, on occasion).
Men just age slightly better than women, but we all grow old, and we all die. While I keep in shape and try to stay on point with diet and fitness, I'd say I had the most fun sexually when I was in my mid 20s, and I was less well off financially than I am now.
ViatoremCCAA 2mo ago
My experience is different.
I am in my early 30s, and I am taking the time between projects to finish up my bachelors. A good 80% of dudes a decade younger are horribly out of shape, regardless of faculty or study program. A large demographic of the women of their generation are yearning for a dude in a decent shape to approach and chat them up.
Are you perhaps seeing the general decline of interest of women in man ? Women in the west were just much nicer a decade ago.
Wintergreen 2mo ago
Interesting, are you in the same shape/better than before or worse?
AbusiveFather1 2mo ago
I'd say I'm in better shape now, but I was definitely very fit back then too. Can't hide the lines on your face, or the gray hairs when the faded sides on a tapered haircut grow back
Typo-MAGAshiv 2 2mo ago
Men and women are different.
Might as well ask "do men also get monthly periods?".
Wintergreen 2mo ago
Did you even bother to read the post?
Typo-MAGAshiv 2 2mo ago
Yes.
Wintergreen 2mo ago
Did you think to actually answer it?
Typo-MAGAshiv 2 2mo ago
My answer is the answer, and what you needed to see.
You just didn't like it.
You're still steeped in your feminist conditioning, in which we're indoctrinated to believe that men and women are the same, except for our plumbing.
The truth is, we're so different that it's ridiculous.
We want different things from each other and from life.
What attracts us to each other is different.
We are primarily attracted to women's beauty, youth, and fertility. Deep down, they know this. They also want commitment. Hence their Epiphany Phase (I'm kind of oversimplifying because plenty has been written about this over the years).
What attracts them to us is a huge blend of many factors, of which youth is zilch and looks are but a tiny part. Confidence + congruence are most important, and then there are myriad other factors, almost all of which we can improve over time and with work.
So no, a 30-something-year-old man should never think he can't compete with a 20-something-year-old man. He should be totally crushing it compared to the younger man.
Women are human beings; they just are.
Men are human doings; we have to become.
Women hit their peak once they finish puberty. They burn brightly and burn out fast.
Men peak much more slowly, and it takes work. We don't get a magical glow-up. And we can remain at our peak for well over a decade. Then we slowly fade, because father time comes for us all.
Wintergreen 2mo ago
This answer has much more to work with lol.
Thanks for the answer.
Problematic_Browser 1 2mo ago
He was much nicer than I would have been with that level of snark you replied with. But it's a great answer, especially this part:
I have never been more of a killer at the game than I am now at 42. I'm fitter than ever (because i have time to lift now that the "work 60 hours a week" part of my life is over) - and FAR fitter than these 20 year olds, my money is double the national average (again, I did the "hard work" stuff early), and I have years of experience getting comfortable telling women no.
In no fucking universe do the epiphany phases of men who are doing what they need to do and women even compare because - shocker - men and women want and provide different things.
Wintergreen 2mo ago
I see your point but how many early 20 year olds are you fucking consistently, and are they just sluts who fuck anything? Genuine question because I don’t see many 22 year olds fucking even 30 year olds.
Problematic_Browser 1 2mo ago
I'm not fucking any, but that's because I have a very nice girlfriend who tends to my needs.
If I didn't have that, I could walk into any bar in most American cities and take someone home.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2mo ago
Your question is just flawed dude. Men and women are entirely different on this. They are not the same at all
Wintergreen 2mo ago
The question is not flawed at all.
Typo-MAGAshiv 2 2mo ago
Vermy is right.
It's a mega-flawed question based on a mega-flawed premise: that men and women are essentially the same, and that everything one does has an equal opposite in the other.
So again: might as well ask if men also get monthly periods.
Wintergreen 2mo ago
I disagree.
Truthfully, there are a lot of things in TRP that are kind of sold to us by content creators who fool us in the same way that the feminists fool women.
For example, Rich Cooper. First of all, almost none of us will ever have as much money as him so we can’t play Yacht Game, and second of all, all the girls he fucks are vapid whores who are not really interested in him.
It is not out of the realm of possibility to conclude that it is indeed possible for a sensible man, transitioning from being a naive mentally-underdeveloped early/mid 20’s retard, to a late 20’s/early 30’s man with more rationality to have some kind of “epiphany”.
I understand that you guys are taking issue with me calling it the “epiphany phase”, but it’s actually a totally valid question, just like it’d be valid to wonder “Do men hit the wall too?”
The reason that it’s valid is, again, because you can look at the groups that are opposite of TRP such as feminists groups, and they will act like things are great for women and women will always have power and will never hit the wall, never regret their pasts, etc.
Only a fool would never think to question these things. Maybe if you get involved with TRP at age 40+ like you did, you can say “this is the answer to my life’s questions”, but for me I can’t say what 30 looks like, I can’t say what 35 looks like, etc., so I still stand by my question and consider it 100% valid.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2mo ago
The entire premise behind it is. That would be like me asking me how fast dogs can fly. They don't. They're dogs not birds
The question is flawed
Wintergreen 2mo ago
No, it isn’t. I’m asking if men ever think “I’m older and can’t compete with younger guys for younger girls”.
Just because men and women are different doesn’t mean that men and women don’t have similar revelations at age 30. The fact that you are unwilling to answer makes me think that the answer is yes, and that’s problematic for people here because that’s the opposite of what TRP teaches.
Problematic_Browser 1 2mo ago
Men attract women by offering one of three things:
Eliminating loyalty (because that's really tied to the dating market and supply/demand) it leaves men competing with two things: looks and resources.
If you're an older man and you're doing the shit you're supposed to be doing, your looks won't drop off until your 50s... And your resources should be making these young boys fucking cry.
Young men have, AT BEST, youth - but don't equate youth=looks because they aren't the same and women don't select for youth.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2mo ago
The Answer is NO
Young men have shitty lives dude. No money, no status, no exp
Not answering the question isn't an answer, you fundamentally misunderstand that men and women are different
You can't just take RP terms and swap them out for the opposite sex. That just about never works here. At all
Wintergreen 2mo ago
Okay, so then the perceived issue is that I called it the “epiphany phase”.
I still think it’s a fair question though. It’s like asking if men hit the wall. Maybe everyone here would say no, but it’s still a fair question.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2mo ago
Yes. Don't gender swap to terms
And no, older guys aren't lusting for their shitty days back
Wintergreen 2mo ago
Okay cool, thanks for the help.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2mo ago
No problem
Musicgoon78 2 2mo ago
It's not an epiphany. That's called choosing to be a victim.
Guys reach their sexual peak in their 30's and 40's. I have my pick of girls 18 to 100 whatever I want. I just answered the same type of thing for the previous question.
Of course if you lead with your wallet, you will get used for your money.
https://www.forums.red/p/theredpill/323365/what_are_you_leading_with
Wintergreen 2mo ago
I responded on your other comment on someone else’s similar question, the one you’re referring to I think.
Thanks for the response and yeah I read the post you just linked about what you lead with.
adam-l Moderator 2mo ago
There's probably a single positive thing about feminism, that we men now have a quite substantial part of the young female population being attracted to our older selves. We can now find 20 year old girls being genuinely attracted to us in our 30s, 40s, even 50s.
Wintergreen 2mo ago
How does feminism make them attracted to older guys?
adam-l Moderator 2mo ago
The feminist core idea of a "patriarchy" is, essentially, transference. It's not men that are the abusers, it's her mother, who has been unchecked by a man, so she feasts on her daughter's soul. But the mother can't be dethroned, the human being doesn't seem capable to do that, so the girl's hateful feelings get transfered to "men", covering up her deep need for the paternal love that would save her from her devouring mother. This need resurfaces as love for father figures, i.e. older men.
First-light 2mo ago
I never did -I was always aware enough of my limitations to never need to wake up to them.
However, I have observed it in aging working class Chads. These guys had the looks, the social skills and the bad boy confidence to get into most underwear, regardless of her wealth or their wealth. They just had so much fun. Then in their early thirties the flood of cum they had been rafting on suddenly dried up to being a normal stream. There was a hotter generation of younger Chads and the women they had grown up having their pick of had suddenly stopped finding themselves and wanted to find a wallet to start a family with. These guys were going to either have to take sub prime pussy if they wanted to keep chadding or they would have to settle down with the best they could get. They did talk about it a fair bit.
Wintergreen 2mo ago
Did these Chads get out of shape?
First-light 2mo ago
Some did, as many men do. But I don't think that was the main problem. One of them was very fit ex military. I think the main problem is that they were trading only on youth, confidence and looks. In the end that comes to an end. You can string it out by keeping in shape but the further you string it out, the less your options get and the lower you fall in quality. You won't see a fit 50 year old with a 21 year old of quality unless he is also rich or she is drunk (and therefore maybe not such high quality).
In the end being looks and confidence Chad only gets you so far and anyone who has leaned heavily on it for his identity will have a moment when he realises the game is up.
Wintergreen 2mo ago
Well yeah, I don’t agree that 50 year olds can get 21 year olds without money. I’m mainly talking about 22 year olds with 30 year olds. Hell, even 24 year olds with 30 year olds.
First-light 2mo ago
Its just a sliding scale. its not like you are a sex god one day and the next you suddenly you can't get young girls. 22 with 30 is fine, pretty normal and natural really. I have had children with two women with that sort of age gap to me when they were late teens and early 20's. However, the guy who is 30 will find that every year after that he can pull maybe 10 percent less early 20's girls. He won't notice at first but it might hit him one day if he is not observant along the way.
derdeutscher 2mo ago
I am 36 and getting plenty of attention from younger women. But I also look pretty good and much younger, and I am fit.
Met a lot of women who actually prefer guys in 30s and 40s due to experience and emotional stability.
Of course hard truth is that...looks matters.
But its a big world..plenty of fish for everybody.
ViatoremCCAA 2mo ago
I am in my early to mid 30s, a week ago I approached and bed a 21-year-old. No epiphany yet. I am also not particularly well off. Nothing in terms of wealth to show off: No Rolex or Bentley keychain.
Wintergreen 2mo ago
Was she hot or were you just into her age? Some guys think fuckibg a 21 year old is an accomplishment even if she’d ugly so I’m just curious.
ViatoremCCAA 2mo ago
She was my type: tall, skinny and had a lovely face.
There are plenty of fugly young women. I am not into that.
Overkill_Engine 2 2mo ago
It's called anytime you let yourself get fat and out of shape and start throwing a pity party instead of fixing it. Can happen at any age for a man.
Age just makes the hurdle higher, but it doesn't remove your ability to jump.
Now if you look like dried boot leather and are clearly crippled by decades of hard living, then that's going to make things way harder, because those are anti-fitness markers, but those aren't strictly an age thing. If you are well preserved and in shape you are going to have a trivial time out competing some dude in his 20's that has never lifted anything heavier than a 12 oz drink.
Wintergreen 2mo ago
Okay so what if we had a 22 year old muscular guy going for a 22 year old girl. Then the same guy from 8 years in the future, who is in similar shape as his 22 year old self, travels back and competes with him for the same 22 year old girl. Who would the girl be more attracted to?
Overkill_Engine 2 2mo ago
That's going to depend on the girl and anything else that might have changed for the guy over those 8 years. Women as a rule clearly care about fitness and status markers than they do age in male partners.
For men this is obviously different, but that's because increased age has a massively negative effect on female fertility while for male fertility it's far less severe.
You are massively overthinking it. Let me be clear - any issues you run into pulling younger chicks are going to stem way more from being too wastefully fixated on this stuff instead of simply making sure you are the best version of yourself that you can be at any given moment.
Wintergreen 2mo ago
Thanks bro, I appreciate the constructive and straightforward response.