I know I didn't act completely properly in this situation. However, I want some confirmation that I'm on the right path and learning from my mistakes properly.
So here's the girl
- College girl, Feminist, slightly attractive
- Introverted girl
- Presumably a virgin
- Admitted to wanting to explore things because she's going to move away soon (I think we all know what this means).
So here's the situation I've known this girl for a while through a social situation where I was naturally an "alpha". We had our first date and on the date she talked about exclusivity when dating. I decided to agree to her terms. We kissed on that date and did other stuff like make out (this was "apparently" her first kiss). Soon after we got into a conversation where she told me I was not emotionally connecting with her and she was considering if this was even something she wanted to do. She expected me to talk to her everyday, which I ended up doing. More dates happen things gets slightly more serious and she does stuff like oral and hand jobs on me. She can't have sex with me because basically it's risky for her to get pregnant for medical reasons (which I can verify are serious I did research). However, another moment comes up where she wants to discuss issues she has, but then we just end up making out. Some more time passes, things seem okay but then she starts doing stuff like seeing other another guy "as friends" and going out to clubs. Then within days, she has the talk with me that she wants to break up. She breaks up with me saying I don't care because of words I said, I acted like a child once and she lost feelings.
There is more after this, but it's just a couple of hookups with her where surprise surprise she was even wilder cause there she didn't see a "potential relationship" anymore.
Here are the learnings I am taking away
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Under no circumstance should I be committing to exclusivity this early. It's a long story, but this girl came after I decided to take a break on dating and focus up on improving my life (improving smv to get more chicks basically). I was basically seeing no one so I was like might as well commit to exclusivity. This was in a way a last hurrah for me before I started taking the self improvement phase of my life more seriously.
- I think talking to her everyday and having calls with her often at night was also another mistake. I was being an idiot wasting time I could have spent self improving. It also got me way more emotionally invested in the situation rather than keeping it light and playful. I'm going to admit the breakup hurts me, but i'm working on controlling my emotions.
Here are some learnings I need to have more clarity on
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I'm still torn on the genuine desire thing. She's admitted to me she's a virgin. She's relatively young (18 - 23) age range, but she did let me do a bunch of risky things with her (everything we did was somewhat incredibly risky). And I don't know if she was acting, but she didn't really know how to give oral or even give me a proper hand job till I taught her.
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If sex not happening was a shit test and I had to push through (despite medical reasons). I really do enjoy spending time with her / talking with her. That's why I stayed despite no sex and I was still getting handjobs / blowjobs. I tried to fuck her multiple times, but I got constant LMR and I also don't want to deal with potential rape accusations because at one point made me promise that if things got heated I wouldn't fuck her. She even got angry once because I said if it happens it happens. Is there any way I could have handled this better?
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If I should have broken it off the moment I saw bad behavior, instead of trying to mentally demote to a plate. In my mind, it was over by the time she started clubbing / seeing other guys. I started mentally demoting her to a plate in my mind. I was so emotionally and mentally drained from dating her. Should I have just plainly broken it off?
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A continuation of the last point but if a girl does some form of disrespect like the above is it worth it trying to correct her bad behavior or just next?
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She talked about not wanting the relationship multiple times and wanting to leave. We had talks and I feel like through those talks I inadvertently was trying to save things right? I feel like I should've just let her leave the first time she talked about leaving or mentioned it.
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How do I deal with the I have "problems with you" conversations. I think a girl with true genuine desire wouldn't be having those conversations. Is it just break it off at that point?
- She lied a lot. I caught her lying to her parents a lot, and I think she lied to me about being her first kiss. I might come off as butt hurt, but I wanted to know if lying is one thing which you guys screen out early or is it just all girls?
Musicgoon78 2 1mo ago
Is this a joke? Seriously have you read the sidebar and do you have your own frame?
She dominated you and told you what to do. Like an absolute blue pill simp, you caved quickly. You showed no backbone, no strong male behavior and have zero pushback.
You probably dried her the fuck out. I can't for the life of me understand how you can't see this as simping, unless you haven't read the side bar at all.
My suggestion is read the sidebar and understand it. Then you can work on your frame.
TulioHumanos 1mo ago
I know I made mistakes. However, I think it’s a stretch to call this simping. I appreciate your hard knocks approach to this situation. But if you believe so can you tell me why this is simping.
I don’t think it was simping because at the end of the day. I didn’t make this girl my whole life. Of course I made bad decisions, but I did do things like pass shit tests. I did set boundaries. I created tingles through dominance physically through actions and mentally through passing shit tests. I didn’t even pay for her. I didn’t buy her gifts. I even knew I already lost her when she started doing all these bad behaviors and I lost interest at that point. She didn't know what she want, so at that point I just decided to push for what I wanted and detached from the situation.
I agree my frame was not good. In fact I acknowledge I didn’t follow the proper way in this situation. We all make mistakes some time. If that’s my mistake tell me. If my core mistake was agreeing to exclusivity tell me. I know I’m meant to have sex first, but even then tell me.
I’ve read the sidebar. I admit I don't memorize it and I might not understand it completely. But that’s why I made this post. To learn from my mistakes and get guidance on the right path
My journey through the pill has been difficult and I acknowledge that the only way to learn is to really make these mistakes in real life. I'm doing that, but I need help in recognizing what's important because I am so new to things.
UPDATE: Added last paragraph and added to second paragraph
First-light 1mo ago
She doesn't sound like prime material. If she is afraid to have sex, you are going to struggle there because sex is a prerequisite for you as a normal man. Does she really have enough desire? There are women who have medical issues who still love sex even though it is a risk.
If you are going to open up a frightened virgin, who may have low libido, it will be a much harder job than dumping a load in a local cum slut. One comes across a few permavirgins in life. One of my best friends has an attractive sister who is one. Over the years he and I have sat up late sometimes as he wonders how to get her to embrace life but in the end he has concluded that her heart is just too dry (she is post wall now). Remember that every man to date has concluded the juice was not worth the squeeze. What makes you different? Its not about you in this case, its about her.
If you were to make the effort, trying to game her like a tinder girl would not work. A lot of red pill game revolves around women having huge options and being used to being able to play men at will. Treating them a little less simpily and not taking the shit they give in female game makes them think you stand out. Opening up a frightened virgin however, will take a bit more care and attention. With a normal girl it is about proving that you are worthy to let you in. With a frightened virgin its about getting her to think she wants to open the door at all.
Women find problems with their lives -read women's mags in the dentist's wating room and you will see most of the stuff is about trying to fix problems or its a fantasy about not having problems. You may get these conversations with girls who really do like you but their anxiety makes them obsess about small things or past conversations. You need to be honest about what you can and can't change. If its a serious relationship and she is asking you to act against your nature or beliefs then yes break. If its because you leave the toilet seat up, you can try to put it down when you remember and she will have to get used to it when you don't. If she is a plate you can just make understanding noises and steer things to a situation where she is enjoying herself and not staring at the obvious fact that you two are incompatible.
You got yourself into a situation where you were wanting it constantly and she was so afraid that she made you promise not to do her even if she got carried away and wanted it. You let a pressure situation develop and pressure kills desire in females. You would need to act like you didn't care and could wait forever and then it might just happen if she relaxed.
Oddly the next guy may be luckier as she will reflect on her mistakes and decide if she really wants it or not. She will be starting from a re-set point that is a lot closer to the goal and will know her mistake was clamming up.
Women do lie more than men and all men lie sometimes to some people in life. What I can say from experience is that a woman who lies to her parents and siblings or steals from them will certainly lie to you. Observe how she treats other people who are close to you and how she gets out of unwanted social invitations -you will be next. Screen what you can't tolerate. With plate its not necessarily a deal breaker, you just know you can't trust her but you might still bang her a bit till the lies piss you off too much.
TulioHumanos 1mo ago
Just to elaborate on this more. There are arguments for both sides. She did tell me that when she's off medication sex would be on the table (of course take this with a grain of salt). And I did feel that she wanted to go there. However, I kind of agree with you because I basically suggested using multiple methods of contraception to mitigate risk. Then she said it's too risky unless it's with the "right person". So thinking about it more, it's probably that it's lack of desire.
Another thing which I didn't mention is this girl was very submissive with me, but had massive hangups with her friends falling head over heels with their boyfriends. Those said friends abandoned or discarded her because of a guy. So I think a big factor of her clamming up as you said and in a way somewhat barrier to freely reach genuine desire was because of this.
The point about obsessing over small things and past conversations is such a massive factor for her. I guess lots of it is a learning experience for me as well figuring out what I like. I'll definitely keep this in mind.
This is a really great point. I will keep this in mind. I agree with a plate as long as it's not too egregious then it's fine, but with a potential LTR prospect then this feels more like a no go for me.