Sheesh, I've been here how long? Five, six years?
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I've been approved for ages. Cool.
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I'm even a mod. That's like being an astronaut.
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I have followers. Woo-hoo. A lot of them.
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I get instant messages. Sheeit. A ton of them. (Please stop.)
- I get emails of (1) appreciation, (2) scorn, and (3) condemnation; all at the same time.
I've attributed much of my success to stoney and steele. I've also acknowledged the crucial role w&s plays, but also, played specifically in particular for me. Of course SK, uem, bogey, bp, and more.
Tonight, however, I want to talk about horns of apathy.
HOA and I chat a bunch - in reddit - but mainly these days in discord. He's a smart dude. I've seen all his kookie, long-winded posts. He once told me he writes like me: kookie and long-winded.
But never before tonight have I been on the receiving end of his advice; leveraging his expertise, benefiting from his knowledge, opening up doorways of discovery I had not previously considered.
You take a dude like me, who legitimately doesn't care - by care I mean invest himself in one outcome or another - and present his position to HOA and you get something beautiful in return.... a perspective I had not considered, perhaps a perspective I simply could not consider.
You see, I had nuked my marriage recently. No big deal. I was good with it. And not like askmrp-shit-talking-I'll-say-I'm-good-when-I'm-bad, but legitimately good with it... as in que-cera-cera, life goes on, my choice, my rules, my wife will no longer be my wife.
Four concise words, one sentence. That's (figuratively) all he had to say.
Of course it opened a larger conversation, one we're still in the midst-of.
But goddamn did it give me perspective where once there was none.
The four words:
"She just loves you."
I say this to both (1) tell you all that this dude is the real-deal, but also (2) remind you that this process works. Even for an old dog like me.
Cho_Assmilk 4y ago
Those 4 words are something I came to terms with a couple years back. I came to realize that my marriage will never be anything more than that.
She just loves me.
She doesn't adore me, have crazy desire for me or uncontrollable lust. She just loves me as a wife loves a husband. I accepted if I want those other things, they won't come from her.
I see where you're coming from and wish you the best with that man.
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
If you're bummed that your wife doesn't love you "enough" that can be tough.
For me, it's (I believe) a bit different: (1) time to go but, (2) she loves me, as in "she's acting out of love" as hoa pointed out.
At a crossroads.
Regardless, relationships are a pain the ass, independent of the specifics.
God speed.
nikfury69 4y ago
Damn Johney. I didn't get it till like 3 hours later. It was gut punch.
Your not the "only" one here.
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
Thanks for the reply - please clarify.
nikfury69 4y ago
Mentally I placed emphasis on the wrong word.
As in, She just "loves" you. Which was confusing...
Not, She "just" loves you.
The gut punch was realizing, at the same instant, I'm in the same boat.
And the bigger irony being it occurring at a time when I thought I was on track with my RP journey. And per your previous advise, should start the OYS process.
Crazy when you discover more as you go along.
Thanks btw.
part_wolf 4y ago
About 100 days ago, I asked HornsofApathy for some advice on a certain topic.
The question was about something he had some experience with that I didn’t, and instead of simply sharing his advice with me, the conversation opened up in a way that was wholly unexpected. He was more open and honest and vulnerable than I could’ve reasonably expected. What I came away with was a better understanding of myself.
My comment here isn’t about Horns; though I do respect and appreciate him for that conversation.
Every man should have other men in his life who are capable of seeing straight though his bullshit and rocking him to the core. Sometimes it’s a mentor, a brother, a best friend, a father, a protege, or a son. Regardless of who that is, it’s a very rare thing and those people shouldn’t be taken for granted.
Cheers Johney.
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
Great comment.
AlphalfaSprout 4y ago
Just chiming in to the gayfest to say Horns has been a major part of the growth I’ve had on here. I genuinely appreciate and learn from his feedback.
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
So let me be much more serious than my replies to lucky below would suggest.
I am ready and willing to nuke my relationship (and any other relationship) at any time, and capable of doing so without all the usual: guilt, reprisals, dishonesty, and the like.
You get through circumstances challenging enough and that becomes pretty easy....
But... but... in a a real-live, mrp mod-having-a-moment-of-clarity....
Can you face the same circumstances and choose a different alternative? Can you walk a different path?
Sheeit, that's what horns has shown me. I was a fighter. I evolved into a fighter. I became the ultimate fighter.
But when it comes to a fight, can I choose a different path?
MRP is designed to challenge you. To provide an alternate perspective. To enable you to see a future that you perhaps would have not seen before.
For me, it was so, so easy to envision a post-nuking-my-marriage-future, one that adhered to the narrative I first created and have subsequently evolved over time.
But could I envision something different? Perhaps it does not align with my narrative; but could I make that happen?
And in considering that such a choice is but a fleeting moment in time, could I do something bigger, stronger, and more poignant? Could I do something entirely different?
Could I work towards it even though it does not align with my pre-conceived narrative?
Could I?
Can I?
Over the months and days that follows I intend to find out.
Over60_FireTempered3 4y ago
u/johneyapocalypse -The important thing, is that YOU chose your path. Where it leads is always a gamble. The final act of choosing, is greater than all that follows that choice. Redundantly: once the choice is made, your fiber is remade.
You know I faced a choice similar to yours and my choice also went against my prior narrative. I am better for the choice I made. I am stronger, more focused, all based on my core values, becoming internally bulletproof. Guide yourself carefully on your quest.
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
Thanks for the feedback my friend I'm confident I have a pretty good inkling of where you're coming from.
red-sfpplus 4y ago
Ah, so what are you another Rambo like myself?
About time you admit you are a big teddy bear to.
Ya know what your problem is?
Same as me.
We dont need anybody, except we do.
SteelSharpensSteel 4y ago
You know, I have a buddy of mine who believes that “You never can rely on anyone but yourself!” At first glance, why wouldn’t you agree. But really, that’s a bit of a sad existence. He’s a bit of a loner type too. Life is just that much better with solid friends and good family.
Over60_FireTempered3 4y ago
Your buddy's same words portend failure in every team sport. Maybe families too.
EasyDaysHardNights 4y ago
I've redefined the definition of family over the years. The line between friend an family has blurred quite a bit. Genealogy is just a shadow of the form it once was. It's much more now about the person that finds you in a pit, climbs down in with you and helps you get back out, because they've been down there before themselves.
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
Strong, insightful words. Share more.
EasyDaysHardNights 4y ago
Insight came through a book and a series of reflections on events with in-laws and others in my life.
5 Years ago, I had someone suggest reading The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins. There's significant depth to that book and it should be read slowly to be appreciated, but to quickly cover one of the major themes, we are more than just a "survival vehicle" for the genetic code handed to us by our biological parents. More than Gene transport vehicles, we are "Meme" vehicles. Meme is short for Mimeme, which are both terms coined by Dawkins. This is where the concept of "memes" as it's commonly known (i.e. a humorous video, picture, or phrase that a lot of people send to each other on the Internet) originates from but there's much more to it than that.
For Dawkins, a Meme is:
Reading that book forced me to reexamine my life across generations. I realized I had much more in common mimetically with those who shared similar philosophies, as /u/Over60_FireTempered3 put it, than my parents or siblings. This encouraged a new sense of loyalty to those who were "fellow travelers" and a distancing to others. A simple investigation into my personal background contains a fundamental motivation for understanding capital markets and executing on entrepreneurial pursuits. I'm only aware of one other person in my "biological family tree" who pursued those things. My father's uncle. The vast majority have followed the more traditional, go to school to get good grades to get a good job and hope for tenure / pension / etc.
The reflection went further than that, though. As I extended it out past the family unit I was raised in and then examined my own family, (my wife and kids) I intuitively understood, it was possible that I would have more in common mimetically with a younger man I got to know, than my own son. I started reviewing literally everyone in my life and asked myself how much "mimetic" code I shared with those around me.
I didn't limit myself to the present. I dug up the past for those who still held a place in my life and reviewed their behaviors as evidence of their own beliefs. My in-laws quickly came to the surface as a point of contention.
My father in-law passed away relatively soon after I got married. It occurred in a dramatic fashion with life support machines and difficult decisions on whether or not to pull the plug being laid on my mother-in-law. My wife is the oldest of a several siblings but none of them stepped up to help my mother-in-law. Everyone was distraught and with no clear direction, I stepped in as mediator between the family and the hospital. Ultimately, that event led to a series of financial struggles for my wife's family. I stepped in to help with that as well.
Long before providing any assistance to my wife's family I had settled on the principle that you give with no expectation of getting back. No thanks is necessary. No funds need be repaid. That doesn't mean you don't watch how the recipient behaves. If they are bottomless resource vacuum, you extricate yourself from that situation. But that's harder to do with In-Laws. What transpired, was, as you'd expect. An ongoing series of requests that came with no gratitude. No attempt at learning from the past or attempt at ownership for their life. Just further dependence.
What really broke things for me though was when my I recalled my in-laws referring to "blood." As in, the genetic reference, "blood is thicker than water." It became apparent that my wife's brothers were consistently treated better than me. It showed up in small ways, larger pieces of pie cut for them. Doors held open for them. And then as my wife's sisters got married, I saw similar behaviors exhibited toward the other men who had "married into the family." They were treated as second class citizens as well. Despite the fact that from everything I could objectively see on the outside, these other men had their shit much more put together than anyone inside my in-laws family unit, that held no bearing on how we (those who to marry in) were treated.
Going further, about five years ago, around the same time I came across The Selfish Gene, through a series of professional endeavors, I met a man who has become closer than a brother. We both have our entrepreneurial pursuits. We share a growth mindset and a desire to live a life built upon reflection and intention. I could go on. The more prescient thing for me however has been that as my world has been rocky as fuck for the last few years, as I've worked to recover from some poor financial decisions, this man has stood by me. He's cried with me. Cheered me on. Re-assured me that he's got my back whether I'm dead broke or rich as fuck. Not because I have much to give, but as a reflection of who he is. He's embodied for me the quote by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
​
​
The stark contrast in behaviors and beliefs for those who are "family" and those who are "friends" has forever cemented in my mind the truth that family is more than just a genetically related human being. I'm not advocating anyone discard their biological relationships off hand. I am however an advocate for placing much more weight on a shared philosophy than on facial similarity.
​
Edit: Grammar, Format
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
Interesting stuff, thanks for clarifying.
Over60_FireTempered3 4y ago
That is the best part of us as humans in action, just never count on it. There's also the one that will never go back down in that pit to help anyone, once they got themselves out. Self interest is good, giving is good, too much of either side also doesn't work. I will go one step further, values matter. Too many have no internal rudder that guides their actions. Put another way, philosophy matters. This was so clearly brought to my attention, many times by u/sorcererking
EasyDaysHardNights 4y ago
Agreed.
​
Agreed. This has been a point of reflection for me over the last year. Jocko Willink's book The Dichotomy of Leadership, highlights the concept well in the leadership arena. e.g.
This caused me to reflect on other seemingly dichotomous values we hold in society.
Fairness and Loyalty
To name just a few.
There is a balance needed in all of them as each could be taken too far.
Wisdom, it seems to me, is at least in part the ability to decide how and to what degree those values should be applied.
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
Ah, my dearest of friends, it's when the two - relationship and values - come to a head.
You've shared your story with me, for which I'm thankful, and it's a personal story.
You more than most understand when values and relationship are at odds.
It's not fucking easy.
With that said, I consider your experience far more congruent than my own. Your values and relationship could coexist.
Now, for me, I'm not so sure. We shall see.
With that said, I'm fine either way, which is most important of all.
Over60_FireTempered3 4y ago
Yes, well put. I agree that these things are not "forever settled" they are fluid, and, "It's not fucking easy".
A thinking person constantly reassesses their values and redirects. It is forever, "we shall see" and we find comfort in our discomfort. No doubt, you will be fine either way.
Over60_FireTempered3 4y ago
The reason we meet here so often, have so much in common, and punch each other so hard.
MonkModeActive 4y ago
Good luck on your path. I hope I eventually experience similar clarity of my own.
Looking forward to the field report on how to establish a harem.
JCX_Pulse 4y ago
The internet and assholes like me don’t necessarily “deserve” (or want) to know the blow-by-blow as you sort out your decision making process, however...
There is tremendous value in being an example of possibly changing your mind/perspective, putting your pride away (and ego), and admitting that you may have made the wrong choice.
There are a lot of guys here who come here, autistic and unaware of the grey areas in life. I for one, would be curious to know about your journey through this part of your life, especially when you were already out and HOA brought you back in (with 4 simple words).
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
Good point.
I was a bit obtuse in my post; though sometimes I like to write that way.
I'm not "back in" - I'm still out - literally - in another house.
However, she and I have been speaking and I had a much longer chat where HOA dropped those four poetic words.
Between her words and his, I have something to chew on.
That said, I did not go "rambo" as a few commenters suggested. Mine was a principled decision and one I intend to stand by. I now have better insight into how things may have evolved this way - and - while I'm not ruling out the potential for reconciliation - I am absolutely not sacrificing my principles. As such, some form of compromise is required.
I haven't written all that "stand by your integrity, stand by your principles" dreck over the years for nothing. :-)
I'll make a post with details next week.
business---travel 4y ago
I always learn something new from a comment or post from Horns.
threekindsoflucky 4y ago
Guess you can teach an old dog new tricks :)
There are a lot of great guys here with a lot of value to give.
I would say Horns has the biggest heart of all of them.
The faggot.
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
haha. we'll find out. she has a few points in her favor now, but will my ego win in the end? we shall see.
:-)
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
People used to say I had the heart. One dude called me "the heart of MRP."
Fucking horns stole that.
Bastard!!! :-)
p.s. At least he doesn't ban everyone for rule 9 like another mod I know! Lol.
Cloudy_Pirate 4y ago
Johney, you are still the heart of MRP. Horns is more like... the mouth. :)
But since this is a HOA love fest, I’ll chime in. I started MRP about six months after he did. Watching him progress was like watching Neo become fucking Neo. And then become Neo/Morpheus/Oracle all in one.
But the thing that most impressed me was his ability to kill his ego and take feedback. It didn’t matter who it came from, if there was value there, he took it. Fuck, I gave him advice when I was maybe 3 months in. Among other things, I told him he needed to develop some apathy. Ha.
So newbs our there: you want to be like Horns of Apathy? Learn to kill your ego, put yourself out there for feedback, absorb it, extract all the value you can from it, and then put the valuable stuff into practice.
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
CP, I think you're the dude who originally called me the heart of MRP.
Maybe that's why I like you so much.
:-)
threekindsoflucky 4y ago
You're more like a hand that's wrapped up in tape and delivers the punch.
Horns is the boxing glove.
I'm more like a bitch slap. Stings but wears off pretty quick and doesn't teach you too much, except that sometimes you get unexpectedly slapped.
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
"unexpectedly slapped" lol.
Understatement.
JCX_Pulse 4y ago
Waaaiitt, does this mean I no longer am the only one getting a reach around ?
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
Goddamn it I changed your flair tonight - after listening to w&s and hoa - and it apparently didn't "take."
It was good, too.
Nah, I'm not stealing your flair. You earned it.
Keep putting in the work and participating and maybe I'll change it to something less ridiculous, lol. :-)
Thanks for your feedback.
JCX_Pulse 4y ago
It was something about curt schilling and a bloody sock wasn’t it?
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
Lol. It was about a bloody sock indeed.
Keep in mind that self-reflection is a good thing. Self-reflection is likely the main indicator of ones' ability to adjust course, modify behavior, and move forward.
That you recognize the obvious flair choice - that I'd already forgotten - is good, not bad.
Jaggarojo 4y ago
It's refreshing to see that the more experienced guys have a genuine appreciation for each other. Makes this sub all the more awesome.
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
Does that help you?
Curious?
You say refreshing. Were you exposed to something different? Maybe in (homoville) TRP?
Jaggarojo 4y ago
This sub displays levels of vulnerability that the main one is too afraid to show, and it strongly factors into the feeling of community I get out of this.
red-sfpplus 4y ago
Faggot is getting better.
Last week it was 13 words with me.
Just dont start trading dick pics with him. It will never stop...
Over60_FireTempered3 4y ago
Yep, never stops.... but you cheat with close-ups.
simbarlion 4y ago
JA, look after yourself it's hard on you no matter how it goes....give it time.
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
Thanks for the reminder bud.
UsefulWalk4 4y ago
Johney careful or you might end up with JCX_Pulse's flair!
Who wouldn't love you!
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
Ha. Good point.
Thanks for the love young man.
tspitsatgp 4y ago
Starting to get vibes of that daddy thundercock or whatever his name was with you at the moment. You are burning a bit too hot.
johneyapocalypse 4y ago
How do you figure?