We always say you should vet a woman for 2 years before marriage. Here's the research to back it up:
John Gottman's Research:
The Gottman Institute has conducted extensive research on relationship dynamics, indicating that understanding each other deeply and managing conflicts effectively are critical for marital success. Longer courtship periods can help couples develop these skills before marriage.
Gottman's studies emphasize the importance of emotional regulation and positive interactions, suggesting that time spent building these aspects before marriage can lead to better outcomes.
sean_karaya 3mo ago Stickied
Before I make a snarky comment:
Could you please supply a link? Alternatively, how is "courtship" defined in the research? Is it wining and dining the woman without asking for intimacy? Being trained like a dog to uplift and upkeep the woman while the man gets nothing tangible?
whytehorse2021 3mo ago Stickied
https://www.gottman.com/
https://ifstudies.org/ifs-admin/resources/reports/cohabitationreportapr2023-final.pdf
The concept of "courtship" in studies by John Gottman and other relationship researchers generally refers to the period of dating and engagement before marriage. This period is crucial for partners to get to know each other deeply, understand each other's values, and develop communication skills that will be vital for a successful marriage.
Key Aspects of Courtship in Gottman's Research:
Emotional Connection: Gottman's research emphasizes the importance of building a strong emotional connection during courtship. This includes sharing personal stories, experiences, and feelings to create a deep bond.
Conflict Management: Understanding and practicing effective conflict resolution strategies is a critical part of courtship. Gottman’s studies show that how couples handle conflicts during this period can predict the long-term success of their relationship.
Shared Values and Goals: Courtship is a time to discuss and align on fundamental values and life goals, such as views on family, career aspirations, and personal beliefs. These discussions help ensure compatibility.
Building Trust and Intimacy: Activities that build trust and emotional intimacy, such as spending quality time together and supporting each other through challenges, are essential during courtship.
For more in-depth information on relationship dynamics and the importance of courtship, you can explore resources from the Gottman Institute and their extensive research on what makes relationships work.
Additionally, the Institute for Family Studies provides insights into how longer periods of dating and engagement can contribute to marital satisfaction and stability.
These resources highlight the value of a thoughtful and intentional courtship period in laying a strong foundation for marriage.
sean_karaya 3mo ago
Thank you.
Based on the info you provided, (i have not read the original papers yet), it seems to me, that the study talks about emasculating men, and training them for providing , protecting, and serving women without expecting much. Specifically, I note the following:
1. No clear unambiguous definition. What exactly should be the "courtship"? Notice that, the definition of courtship is defined in terms of the results, such as Emotional connections, conflict management, lalalala. However, it is not declared how to get there.
Amongst magicians, there is a type of forcing technique, called "magician's choice". Assume, that the magician wants you to pick a specific card. He has to piles of cards on the table, and he knows where the correct card is. He will for example, give you a "free choice", to chose any of these piles. If you chose the correct pile, then he will say "congratulations, let's work with that pile", and extract the card from there. If you chose the wrong pile, he will say "excellent, keep it for yourself, and I will work with the other pile", and extract the card from the other pile.
You are not given a set of rules, that you can verify whether they correspond to truth or not. No matter what you do, the magician decides the outcome.
I see same problem here. The author does not give you a set of rules to perform the courtship, where you could verify whether his rules led to success or not. He gave you a set out outcomes, that are synonymous to success. I think this is called begging the question.
2. Emotional Connection. I think this has been meme'd to death. We all know that Emotional connection == no physical attraction, hence a lot of pampering is needed to make the woman go for starfish sex.
3. Shared Values and Goals. The definition given in the text makes me think of the famous meme: He did not want a cat, she wanted a cat, after discussion, they agree to getting a cat. I am a bit cynical no question, but in today's day and age, that's prudent, and I cant see this study offering anything that distinguishes itself from the meme.
4. Building Trust and Intimacy. Yaaaaah --- he has to jump through a lot of hoops to "build intimacy" ..
I have stopped at this point, but I do not think that the study agrees with RP knowledge. It may present a similar sounding conclusion, but the terms are very ambiguous to take it seriously.
gorillagulp 3mo ago
In general sense you are right. What would make certain aspects of this research, work is not applying blue pill thinking to it with healthy woman.
She has to invest more 3:1 (ie emotional connection, she is investing 6, you do 2; she is disinvesting -1, you disinvest -3)
Point of view of Whyte is, he's in LTR for long and his woman never (‽) was a slut. Many men has NEVER seen normal relationship in their lives, but seen arogance, INDEPENDENCE, slutiness etc. There is/was no ground to build on experience with somewhat normal woman.
Specifically give 'Apex mindset 3 part: the secret to handling relationship conflICT' a go .
The concepts might not find as much understanding, because to understand one probably needed to experience something similar.
I did.
For many years my LTR looked like one explained in this video.
whytehorse2021 3mo ago
Yeah that would be the blue pill version and probably is relatable to a 1950s traditional woman. The red pill version is don't cohabitate, make sure she adds value to your life, make sure she's in your frame and working towards helping you towards your goals, stuff like that.
The study has validity in that it was conducted on people who are actually in a happy marriage.
No-Stress-Cat 3mo ago
That is a well-presented argument. Bravo.
Overkill_Engine 2 3mo ago
At the very least it gives you some time for the new pussy goggles to wear off and for her to get lazy and/or stupid enough to let a dealbreaker slip. Still think men should collectively refuse to marry until the divorce laws are amended to be less rewarding to sandbagging pieces of shit though.
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NeoSpartan 3mo ago
I don't think you need for this. It's common sense that you don't know very much about a person until you spend a sufficient amount of time with them. 2 years sounds like a pretty solid amount though, will see most of what is behind the mask after that long.