Seems like these days this holds true. Context is I'm established: 34M wealthy 500k/yr, tall, fit, looks medium. I have a nice roster. They come to me and don't waste my time. Every time I look at one of the hotter/smarter/fitter ones and contemplate having kids I realise that these are the girls who are getting so much attention on socials/apps that the prospect of being cucked is unacceptable. The worst part is they can sense when you start to show them extra attention or talk about kids and this usually prompts them to start acting out or making demands. I'm not a naturally trusting person. Does anyone older have experience of how to approach having kids? I contemplated having kids in an open RS but seems too remote from my own childhood experience. I contemplated having kids with one of the more conservative, less attractive ones but I don't want weak kids. Please don't comment unless you are an older (at least 30) man with real experience.
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TJMS 5mo ago
I'm an older man, although I don't have kids, and I think your observation is true simply because women who have options will want to exercise them. I guess my only advice for overcoming this tendency is to vet, vet, vet, don't give things away too soon, and make sure she realizes she has something major to lose if she betrays you.
adam-l Senior Endorsed 5mo ago
This is not what you want to hear, but have you considered foregoing kids altogether?
There doesn't seem to be an alternative for having kids than a "traditional" setup, where the woman is submitted to the husband, even to the point of implicitly accepting him having a mistress. This is, of course, far from what is probable in today's mating market.
People might say "accept the risk of a divorce and go ahead", but this means accepting the risk of psychological damage to your kids, which is not trivial.
seekinghelp4 5mo ago
having kids is my #1 priority.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 5mo ago
Normally i would nuke post and tell you to post in AskTRP but i don't want to delete the comments of senior endorsed contributors.
Please ask questions in askTRP from now on
liftheavystuff 5mo ago
Good topic.
I'm similar age and income.
If you want kids, it's going to require assuming some risk I think. Unavoidable.
If you're going to do it, I would probably select one of the more conservative ones who displays more domestic type traits, however this is no guarantee, and she needs to keep working in order to avoid a divorce rape situation.
I assume you're in the US; a prenup is a must. Depending on the state, they are very enforceable. Don't believe the incel / black pill misinformation.
Stay somewhat emotionally unattached so that you can kick her out the second she does anything you deem worthy of such.
Context: divorced x 1 with 1 kid and going to try again w strong prenup, more realistic expectations. Kid is strong and doesn't seem psychologically damaged by the divorce; good co-parenting situation.
Durek_The_Bald 5mo ago
Married with kids, 40+ here.
Although I wouldn't advice anyone to have kids, or to get married, I also think the redpillosphere is rife with over-the-top doom and gloom, bordering on the paranoid, and seemingly rooted in a lot of emotional neediness.
There's the legal/financial aspect of it, which is very location specific, and in many cases can be prepared for. Then there's the emotional aspect of it, the emotional aspect of getting cheated on and/or dumped, which is 100% on oneself.
Me personally, I'm well protected legally - both with regards to finances and custody (location specific). And if it ever happens that my wife cheats on me, or want to leave me, well, then fuck it. On an emotional level, I'll deal with that then, and be just fine.
As for the negative impact of divorce on kids, that's highly overrated too. Those statistics are skewed by ex-couples going to war, using the kids as weapons. And they're skewed by issues that were already there before divorce. And they're skewed by location - whether you live in a place that has a "divorce industry" feeding off of manufacturing problems and shitty behaviour for reward.
It's simply not what I see around me where I live, and where the laws are what they are. What I see are divorced couples living close by eachother, practicing 50/50 custody for most part, no alimony, no "divorce rape", kids thriving and doing just fine.
To think critically, be sceptical, and to be prepared in the event it doesn't work out, is very, very important. But if you're afraid of the outcome of starting a family, you are not ready to start a family. Because that paranoia, that scarcity mindset, is going to ensure it doesn't work out.
liftheavystuff 5mo ago
Yeah this is probably the wisest answer. My ex and I co-parent well with 50/50, no alimony, no child support.
Durek_The_Bald 5mo ago
Every other week with the kids, every other week for yourself, good co-parenting relationship with the mother, no money flowing either way, I call that "living the dream".
Funny thing, I was recently on cabin-to-cabin hike with som mates. All of us are involved fathers who spend a good chunk of time with our kids. All us still married guys went for the three-days option, meeting up with the rest along the way. And all the divorced guys went for the full week option. Just lol. A reminder that divorce is (in most cases) nothing to fear - quite the opposite, rather.
First-light 5mo ago
I don't think that there is an inverse correlation between hotness and loyalty. There is a scientifically proven correlation between hotness in a woman and the number of LTRs she has, as well as hotness in men and the number of STRs he has. This does suggest that Hot women have all the options but are not cashing them in too casually. You do however run the risk of an affair if a hot woman does not think you are up to scratch long term.
Having kids -never had a problem with this. The women want them or they don't. Its not remotely worth trying to persuade a hot one who "is not ready" just walk on by. The resentment and talk of sacrifice that would follow you perhaps right to the divorce court are not worth it.
I think you do need to follow your attraction with selecting mothers for children. When I have done this the children have been good and the woman has been a lot easier to tolerate than when I looked for loyalty and got bored.
If you start not married ,its a lot easier to continue that way. that's obvious but really it can work out fine. Knock an attractive woman up who is up for having kids and just say no to marriage. Worked for me. Trust attraction. Its nature's way of telling you what is good for you.
Background -a number of children with 4 different women.
liftheavystuff 5mo ago
Explain more? Are you a wealthy person in a developing country or a multimillionaire in America? Wondering about the logistics of "a number of children with 4 different women."
First-light 5mo ago
I am cautious about too much personal detail. I am relatively poor but I would say fairly privileged. From my small business, I pay myself and my lady combined about 1/10th of what you earn per annum. You can do a lot on quite a little if you are playing your cards well, own everything outright, avoid debt and large financial drains (like the wrong sort of small minded coarse mannered women).
I live in a western country. I was well educated privately on grandparents' money (long since spent by my mother but I had a privileged childhood), which has always helped when it comes to operating in "good" circles". I am a top 1% academic achiever with an arts degree -in spite of being told my talents lay in the sciences- (which again I think helps when it comes to getting on with women who actually want more than just money to spend). I have lived a fairly aesthetic life which has had its pros and cons. I am now dealing with one of the cons -getting old in a very physical job but that's the price of choosing a life in the outdoors for aesthetic reasons.
Would I do it the same again -no not if I were young today but I looked and saw that for my generation it would be possible to have a fairly aesthetic life and see and learn a lot while earning little.
None of the women were poor quality. Two were from a poorer country.
Money is important, you only realise this when you have thin margins but becoming a slave to it (as most men and almost all women are) really does limit your ability to self optimise. I think a younger man than I will need to pay more heed to money than I did. There has been a lot of inflation in the west -look at how each generation if they are as successful as the last, still buys a smaller house than the last for a larger portion of their income.
Men need to guard against their families being swallowed by inflation but if you are held by fear of poverty, you may well just end up having spent all your life's energy just to be the mule of some personality free zone of a middle class woman who in return for her limited fertility (after a successful education and some sort of career) wants you to spend to achieve what she thinks is "class" but is actually just good compliance to expected social norms. When you die all you will leave is 2 kids educated to get on the career ladder and a large house that you cannot be buried with and must be sold to be divided by your children. You could do a lot worse than this -this is the happy ending version- but there might have been a better you out there who might have educated his children to be more too.
Don't seek to procreate with a personality free zone of a "successful" middle class western woman, even if she was hot in her 20s.
No-Stress-Cat 5mo ago
Passport, bro. Find you a hot wife in a conservative country.
MrSupreme 5mo ago
35yr old here.Are you looking for a happy marriage, traditional family and submissive wife. I say this to a lot of people here, find a girl from third world countries or move out of your country altogether. Some commenter said to forego having kids, I don't agree.What you should forego is the idea of a happy family, that is going to be really hard to find these days. Internalize the thought of high risk of divorce and women not sharing your vision.
whytehorse2021 5mo ago
Almost 50yrs old here. Married 19+ years. 2 sons. Got my passport in 2005 and never looked back. I screened over 1000 women to see if they wanted to get married and have kids. Only 2 said yes... some crazy chick and my wife. Pick a race of woman you like and go where they are traditional. You'll find a wife-material girlfriend in 10sec.