As reported in Bloomberg, Google has fired a senior software engineer, James Damore, for authoring a 10-page memo (pasted below) condemning the company’s diversity efforts and claiming men are biologically more predisposed to working in the tech industry than women. According to his LinkedIn profile, Mr. Damore has a masters degree in systems biology from Harvard. (correction: the original posted stated he had a Ph.D, this has since been corrected after Damore updated his LinkedIn profile)
A full reading of the memo shows that Mr. Damore was making a fair and well-reasoned argument for why pay gap and hiring gap issues could not be solely attributable to gender bias against women, and that to understand the full picture, Google (governments and institutions included) need to also consider biological, psychological, social and cultural factors which explain the differences between the genders. Men and Women are actually different, right?
Apparently, this speech violated Google's "code of conduct". The CEO fired Mr. Damore for sexist stereotypes. However, I would ague that Mr. Damore's memo was not "sexist" but rather very logical and scientific. It simply did not sit well with the prevailing cultural elites at the company who believe there is no room for debating authoritarian policies which seek to use artificial quotas and policies to correct for alleged discrimination. However, there is no data to support the fact that the discrepancies between representation of women in science and tech industries has anything to do with other than chosen educations and vocational preferences.
Nice work Google. Before you retaliate against your employees for exercising political speech, perhaps you should give room for other points of view which are actually supported by scientific data.
The memo:
Background [1]
People generally have good intentions, but we all have biases which are invisible to us. Thankfully, open and honest discussion with those who disagree can highlight our blind spots and help us grow, which is why I wrote this document.[2] Google has several biases and honest discussion about these biases is being silenced by the dominant ideology. What follows is by no means the complete story, but it’s a perspective that desperately needs to be told at Google.
Google’s biases
At Google, we talk so much about unconscious bias as it applies to race and gender, but we rarely discuss our moral biases. Political orientation is actually a result of deep moral preferences and thus biases. Considering that the overwhelming majority of the social sciences, media, and Google lean left, we should critically examine these prejudices.
Left Biases
Compassion for the weak Disparities are due to injustices Humans are inherently cooperative Change is good (unstable) Open Idealist Right Biases
Respect for the strong/authority Disparities are natural and just Humans are inherently competitive Change is dangerous (stable) Closed Pragmatic Neither side is 100% correct and both viewpoints are necessary for a functioning society or, in this case, company. A company too far to the right may be slow to react, overly hierarchical, and untrusting of others. In contrast, a company too far to the left will constantly be changing (deprecating much loved services), over diversify its interests (ignoring or being ashamed of its core business), and overly trust its employees and competitors.
Only facts and reason can shed light on these biases, but when it comes to diversity and inclusion, Google’s left bias has created a politically correct monoculture that maintains its hold by shaming dissenters into silence. This silence removes any checks against encroaching extremist and authoritarian policies. For the rest of this document, I’ll concentrate on the extreme stance that all differences in outcome are due to differential treatment and the authoritarian element that’s required to actually discriminate to create equal representation.
Possible non-bias causes of the gender gap in tech [3]
At Google, we’re regularly told that implicit (unconscious) and explicit biases are holding women back in tech and leadership. Of course, men and women experience bias, tech, and the workplace differently and we should be cognizant of this, but it’s far from the whole story.
On average, men and women biologically differ in many ways. These differences aren’t just socially constructed because:
They’re universal across human cultures They often have clear biological causes and links to prenatal testosterone Biological males that were castrated at birth and raised as females often still identify and act like males The underlying traits are highly heritable They’re exactly what we would predict from an evolutionary psychology perspective Note, I’m not saying that all men differ from women in the following ways or that these differences are “just.” I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. Many of these differences are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything about an individual given these population level distributions.
Personality differences
Women, on average, have more:
Openness directed towards feelings and aesthetics rather than ideas. Women generally also have a stronger interest in people rather than things, relative to men (also interpreted as empathizing vs. systemizing). These two differences in part explain why women relatively prefer jobs in social or artistic areas. More men may like coding because it requires systemizing and even within SWEs, comparatively more women work on front end, which deals with both people and aesthetics. Extraversion expressed as gregariousness rather than assertiveness. Also, higher agreeableness. This leads to women generally having a harder time negotiating salary, asking for raises, speaking up, and leading. Note that these are just average differences and there’s overlap between men and women, but this is seen solely as a women’s issue. This leads to exclusory programs like Stretch and swaths of men without support. Neuroticism (higher anxiety, lower stress tolerance).This may contribute to the higher levels of anxiety women report on Googlegeist and to the lower number of women in high stress jobs. Note that contrary to what a social constructionist would argue, research suggests that “greater nation-level gender equality leads to psychological dissimilarity in men’s and women’s personality traits.” Because as “society becomes more prosperous and more egalitarian, innate dispositional differences between men and women have more space to develop and the gap that exists between men and women in their personality becomes wider.” We need to stop assuming that gender gaps imply sexism.
Men’s higher drive for status
We always ask why we don’t see women in top leadership positions, but we never ask why we see so many men in these jobs. These positions often require long, stressful hours that may not be worth it if you want a balanced and fulfilling life.
Status is the primary metric that men are judged on[4], pushing many men into these higher paying, less satisfying jobs for the status that they entail. Note, the same forces that lead men into high pay/high stress jobs in tech and leadership cause men to take undesirable and dangerous jobs like coal mining, garbage collection, and firefighting, and suffer 93% of work-related deaths.
Non-discriminatory ways to reduce the gender gap
Below I’ll go over some of the differences in distribution of traits between men and women that I outlined in the previous section and suggest ways to address them to increase women’s representation in tech and without resorting to discrimination. Google is already making strides in many of these areas, but I think it’s still instructive to list them:
Women on average show a higher interest in people and men in things We can make software engineering more people-oriented with pair programming and more collaboration. Unfortunately, there may be limits to how people-oriented certain roles and Google can be and we shouldn’t deceive ourselves or students into thinking otherwise (some of our programs to get female students into coding might be doing this). Women on average are more cooperative Allow those exhibiting cooperative behavior to thrive. Recent updates to Perf may be doing this to an extent, but maybe there’s more we can do. This doesn’t mean that we should remove all competitiveness from Google. Competitiveness and self reliance can be valuable traits and we shouldn’t necessarily disadvantage those that have them, like what’s been done in education. Women on average are more prone to anxiety. Make tech and leadership less stressful. Google already partly does this with its many stress reduction courses and benefits. Women on average look for more work-life balance while men have a higher drive for status on average Unfortunately, as long as tech and leadership remain high status, lucrative careers, men may disproportionately want to be in them. Allowing and truly endorsing (as part of our culture) part time work though can keep more women in tech. The male gender role is currently inflexible Feminism has made great progress in freeing women from the female gender role, but men are still very much tied to the male gender role. If we, as a society, allow men to be more “feminine,” then the gender gap will shrink, although probably because men will leave tech and leadership for traditionally feminine roles. Philosophically, I don’t think we should do arbitrary social engineering of tech just to make it appealing to equal portions of both men and women. For each of these changes, we need principles reasons for why it helps Google; that is, we should be optimizing for Google—with Google’s diversity being a component of that. For example currently those trying to work extra hours or take extra stress will inevitably get ahead and if we try to change that too much, it may have disastrous consequences. Also, when considering the costs and benefits, we should keep in mind that Google’s funding is finite so its allocation is more zero-sum than is generally acknowledged.
The Harm of Google’s biases
I strongly believe in gender and racial diversity, and I think we should strive for more. However, to achieve a more equal gender and race representation, Google has created several discriminatory practices:
Programs, mentoring, and classes only for people with a certain gender or race [5] A high priority queue and special treatment for “diversity” candidates Hiring practices which can effectively lower the bar for “diversity” candidates by decreasing the false negative rate Reconsidering any set of people if it’s not “diverse” enough, but not showing that same scrutiny in the reverse direction (clear confirmation bias) Setting org level OKRs for increased representation which can incentivize illegal discrimination [6] These practices are based on false assumptions generated by our biases and can actually increase race and gender tensions. We’re told by senior leadership that what we’re doing is both the morally and economically correct thing to do, but without evidence this is just veiled left ideology[7] that can irreparably harm Google.
Why we’re blind
We all have biases and use motivated reasoning to dismiss ideas that run counter to our internal values. Just as some on the Right deny science that runs counter to the “God > humans > environment” hierarchy (e.g., evolution and climate change) the Left tends to deny science concerning biological differences between people (e.g., IQ[8] and sex differences). Thankfully, climate scientists and evolutionary biologists generally aren’t on the right. Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of humanities and social scientists learn left (about 95%), which creates enormous confirmation bias, changes what’s being studied, and maintains myths like social constructionism and the gender wage gap[9]. Google’s left leaning makes us blind to this bias and uncritical of its results, which we’re using to justify highly politicized programs.
In addition to the Left’s affinity for those it sees as weak, humans are generally biased towards protecting females. As mentioned before, this likely evolved because males are biologically disposable and because women are generally more cooperative and areeable than men. We have extensive government and Google programs, fields of study, and legal and social norms to protect women, but when a man complains about a gender issue issue [sic] affecting men, he’s labelled as a misogynist and whiner[10]. Nearly every difference between men and women is interpreted as a form of women’s oppression. As with many things in life, gender differences are often a case of “grass being greener on the other side”; unfortunately, taxpayer and Google money is spent to water only one side of the lawn.
The same compassion for those seen as weak creates political correctness[11], which constrains discourse and is complacent to the extremely sensitive PC-authoritarians that use violence and shaming to advance their cause. While Google hasn’t harbored the violent leftists protests that we’re seeing at universities, the frequent shaming in TGIF and in our culture has created the same silence, psychologically unsafe environment.
Suggestions
I hope it’s clear that I’m not saying that diversity is bad, that Google or society is 100% fair, that we shouldn’t try to correct for existing biases, or that minorities have the same experience of those in the majority. My larger point is that we have an intolerance for ideas and evidence that don’t fit a certain ideology. I’m also not saying that we should restrict people to certain gender roles; I’m advocating for quite the opposite: treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group (tribalism).
My concrete suggestions are to:
De-moralize diversity.
As soon as we start to moralize an issue, we stop thinking about it in terms of costs and benefits, dismiss anyone that disagrees as immoral, and harshly punish those we see as villains to protect the “victims.” Stop alienating conservatives.
Viewpoint diversity is arguably the most important type of diversity and political orientation is one of the most fundamental and significant ways in which people view things differently. In highly progressive environments, conservatives are a minority that feel like they need to stay in the closet to avoid open hostility. We should empower those with different ideologies to be able to express themselves. Alienating conservatives is both non-inclusive and generally bad business because conservatives tend to be higher in conscientiousness, which is require for much of the drudgery and maintenance work characteristic of a mature company. Confront Google’s biases.
I’ve mostly concentrated on how our biases cloud our thinking about diversity and inclusion, but our moral biases are farther reaching than that. I would start by breaking down Googlegeist scores by political orientation and personality to give a fuller picture into how our biases are affecting our culture. Stop restricting programs and classes to certain genders or races.
These discriminatory practices are both unfair and divisive. Instead focus on some of the non-discriminatory practices I outlined. Have an open and honest discussion about the costs and benefits of our diversity programs.
Discriminating just to increase the representation of women in tech is as misguided and biased as mandating increases for women’s representation in the homeless, work-related and violent deaths, prisons, and school dropouts. There’s currently very little transparency into the extend of our diversity programs which keeps it immune to criticism from those outside its ideological echo chamber. These programs are highly politicized which further alienates non-progressives. I realize that some of our programs may be precautions against government accusations of discrimination, but that can easily backfire since they incentivize illegal discrimination. Focus on psychological safety, not just race/gender diversity.
We should focus on psychological safety, which has shown positive effects and should (hopefully) not lead to unfair discrimination. We need psychological safety and shared values to gain the benefits of diversity Having representative viewpoints is important for those designing and testing our products, but the benefits are less clear for those more removed from UX. De-emphasize empathy.
I’ve heard several calls for increased empathy on diversity issues. While I strongly support trying to understand how and why people think the way they do, relying on affective empathy—feeling another’s pain—causes us to focus on anecdotes, favor individuals similar to us, and harbor other irrational and dangerous biases. Being emotionally unengaged helps us better reason about the facts. Prioritize intention.
Our focus on microaggressions and other unintentional transgressions increases our sensitivity, which is not universally positive: sensitivity increases both our tendency to take offense and our self censorship, leading to authoritarian policies. Speaking up without the fear of being harshly judged is central to psychological safety, but these practices can remove that safety by judging unintentional transgressions. Microaggression training incorrectly and dangerously equates speech with violence and isn’t backed by evidence. Be open about the science of human nature.
Once we acknowledge that not all differences are socially constructed or due to discrimination, we open our eyes to a more accurate view of the human condition which is necessary if we actually want to solve problems. Reconsider making Unconscious Bias training mandatory for promo committees.
We haven’t been able to measure any effect of our Unconscious Bias training and it has the potential for overcorrecting or backlash, especially if made mandatory. Some of the suggested methods of the current training (v2.3) are likely useful, but the political bias of the presentation is clear from the factual inaccuracies and the examples shown. Spend more time on the many other types of biases besides stereotypes. Stereotypes are much more accurate and responsive to new information than the training suggests (I’m not advocating for using stereotypes, I [sic] just pointing out the factual inaccuracy of what’s said in the training). [1] This document is mostly written from the perspective of Google’s Mountain View campus, I can’t speak about other offices or countries.
[2] Of course, I may be biased and only see evidence that supports my viewpoint. In terms of political biases, I consider myself a classical liberal and strongly value individualism and reason. I’d be very happy to discuss any of the document further and provide more citations.
[3] Throughout the document, by “tech”, I mostly mean software engineering.
[4] For heterosexual romantic relationships, men are more strongly judged by status and women by beauty. Again, this has biological origins and is culturally universal.
[5] Stretch, BOLD, CSSI, Engineering Practicum (to an extent), and several other Google funded internal and external programs are for people with a certain gender or race.
[6] Instead set Googlegeist OKRs, potentially for certain demographics. We can increase representation at an org level by either making it a better environment for certain groups (which would be seen in survey scores) or discriminating based on a protected status (which is illegal and I’ve seen it done). Increased representation OKRs can incentivize the latter and create zero-sum struggles between orgs.
[7] Communism promised to be both morally and economically superior to capitalism, but every attempt became morally corrupt and an economic failure. As it became clear that the working class of the liberal democracies wasn’t going to overthrow their “capitalist oppressors,” the Marxist intellectuals transitioned from class warfare to gender and race politics. The core oppressor-oppressed dynamics remained, but now the oppressor is the “white, straight, cis-gendered patriarchy.”
[8] Ironically, IQ tests were initially championed by the Left when meritocracy meant helping the victims of the aristocracy.
[9] Yes, in a national aggregate, women have lower salaries than men for a variety of reasons. For the same work though, women get paid just as much as men. Considering women spend more money than men and that salary represents how much the employees sacrifices (e.g. more hours, stress, and danger), we really need to rethink our stereotypes around power.
[10] “The traditionalist system of gender does not deal well with the idea of men needing support. Men are expected to be strong, to not complain, and to deal with problems on their own. Men’s problems are more often seen as personal failings rather than victimhood,, due to our gendered idea of agency. This discourages men from bringing attention to their issues (whether individual or group-wide issues), for fear of being seen as whiners, complainers, or weak.”
[11] Political correctness is defined as “the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against,” which makes it clear why it’s a phenomenon of the Left and a tool of authoritarians.
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managarza 6y ago
Not to bash in women but this made me look at them as lesser, to boost my confidence
rhys5584 7y ago
Just say your a female on your applications, everyone will give you extra support for being a trans.
gary9595 7y ago
Ironically, this memo could be used by Google to defend itself from the Dept. of Justice inquiry about alleged wage discrimination against females. Way to shoot yourself in the foot, Google.
[deleted] 7y ago
remember this, and act (and vote) accordingly: be silent when this topic is discussed in the open, and be honest when anonymity is guaranteed.
Didiathon 7y ago
Be strategic, but don't be silent. Win people over to the truth subtley. Make people pushing absurd notions like "women and men are exactly the same" look like prudes. Don't be afraid to get kicked out of clubs or small organizations that don't matter; try to gain a high position and get other people to like you before doing so. If and when you're kicked out, if you're important and well liked, there will either be discussions and arguments that lead to a change in culture, or people who liked you and followed your leadership will get sad/less productive and cause the organization to collapse. Form your own organizations where you can speak freely. Hire lawyers and get good at rhetoric/PR if you establish an organization of a certain size and don't intend on being PC. Make being honest instead of being PC your image.
Don't be 100% silent. Reasonable arguments and non-pc admissions of reality need to re-enter meatspace if we want anything to change.
Andramoiennepe 7y ago
Correct. And to effect change only requires a brain. "Men and women are exactly the same" Amused mastery can defeat this one easily enough: [as a guy] "I can't wait to be pregnant! It is going to feel so special to grow a human being in my womb ... wait, what!? I thought you said men and women are the same! Ok. Well, I can't wait for the day that there is just a World Cup team. Men and women are equal. We should have one unified team, both genders ... one team made up of the best players. Any woman can make it on her own merits."
Easy .. and done playfully so as not to be offensive. Engaging anger/emotion is what counts as a lose here. Your role is Socratic irony: you already know the answer. You lead your interlocutor to it by playfully feigning ignorance and advancing through questioning rather than lecturing. Your interlocutor discovers the truth on her own and is therefore convinced.
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leew360 7y ago
And more importantly, support whatever enhances anonymity if you can. Tor, bitcoin, etc. Use less Google services and social media as possible.
PM_ME_UR_TECHNO_GRRL 7y ago
My will is not strong enough to leave Google. Gmail with maps and calendar alone, plus with Chrome, it makes life significantly easier.
RedPillHanSolo 7y ago
Bitcoin is not anonymous: https://bitcoin.org/en/faq#is-bitcoin-anonymous
gELSK 7y ago
// , That is correct. It's pseudonymous.
However, it cannot be seized by governments, and there are ways to convert it to anonymous forms, and then convert it back.
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gELSK 7y ago
// , I second this. I have used it many times for research about harm reduction for a friend who overdosed, and to find out more about politically charged topics.
[deleted] 7y ago
You should be careful with this one. Don't run a relay unless you know how to do it properly. Many houses were raided due to exit nodes.
Also be super careful who are you donating money to, don't just throw it at the first organization you see.
gELSK 7y ago
// , I can second this. Bitcoin donations are very easily abused.
nocroc 7y ago
You can also donate bitcoins directly to the Tor foundation! Best of both worlds!
[deleted] 7y ago
I think tor exit nodes, should be run by corp institutions, like data centers where they have the band width and legal backing to handle any issues that may come up. Being a relay node is perfect for the average person to contribute.
El_Reconquista 7y ago
Bitcoin isn't very anonymous, Monero would better suit that purpose.
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[deleted] 7y ago
Physical Cash is anonymous in small amounts.
Digital block chain currencies are hard to have anonymity even going through on-line laundering services.
duruga 7y ago
Monero is different than Bitcoin and dully anonymous.
thebluepool 7y ago
And do everything you can to make 'Google' a generic trademark term for 'search'.
KnowBrainer 7y ago
Switching from Chrome to Edge and from Google to Bing has drastically improved my online experience.
[deleted] 7y ago
Try Firefox and duckduckgo. Microsoft is in the same category as Google.
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Arnoux 7y ago
I can be vocal as much I want where I live in eastern eu. Sure we earn less money than western people, but at least not ruled by cucks and women
BigBrotherZiggy 7y ago
I've never been there, but as an outsider the average eastern european person seems much more fulfilled than the average western european, precisely for earning less money. The abundance in the west makes people plan their lives around cash and materialism in general, which lead to this hedonistic culture where nobody is ever satisfied. Eastern Europeans may be poorer, but that doesn't mean it's worse to live there
[deleted] 7y ago
are there engineering jobs where you live? not being surrounded by "diversity" might be worth the downgrade in money for me.
Max_Bigly 7y ago
if you do software engineering you can work remotely for a US company and get the best of both world combined with low cost of living
Arnoux 7y ago
Of course there are. There are every kind of jobs. I am working in finance.
victurchen 7y ago
What sort of certifications do employers look for finance candidates? Is the CFA the gold standard over there?
Arnoux 7y ago
Well I am not sure. I work as internal auditor, not with the stock market. Me and my colleagues usually required to have BIG4 experience.
There are a lot of finance positions here, which are not necessarily trading. These don't really require anything special, as there is high supply of jobs currently. I don't think CFA is widely recognized here. Some finance-accountants learn ACCA, but that is also not a real requirement.
Hyrkan 7y ago
Downgrade would be huge. For example a senior software engineer earns around 2,5-4 k USD/month, so 30-48k USD/yr. Sure, you'll live like a king but your purchasing power for imported goods and investing scope will be more than halved. In terms of building wealth it's not a good idea.
Edit: engineers earn around 40k USD / yr afaik.
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Hyrkan 7y ago
Mostly cars and electronics. Those cost a lot more here than in U.S.
Surf_Or_Die 7y ago
If you already live in the EU you won't even make less money. I met software engineers who lived in the Czech Republic and Bulgaria who made the same amount of money that they did in Germany and Holland except they got away from diversity, feminism and got a WAY higher standard of living since their pay checks were identical but they lived in a country where the average person made much less money. If you're in Europe and you haven't looked for opportunities out east yet - you're wasting your time.
BeBeBeaverBros 7y ago
And the women are more beautiful, and there aren't any Muslims to deal with.
Surf_Or_Die 7y ago
I did say "get away from diversity". Does anyone outside of HR use the word "diversity" unironically nowadays?
Psychocist 7y ago
Good to know. I'm doing something similar but heading to Asia (Thailand) and working remotely on a Western salary. If that falls apart, I might end up somewhere in Eastern Europe.
Surf_Or_Die 7y ago
It's kind of a dump. I quit my job and did a lot of traveling. I realized that while places like Thailand are nice to visit, they are not my people. They are very different from us westerners and ultimately I am at my happiest living with my own people. Unfortunately America is turning into one big diversity fiesta. Can't get away from the blacks and Mexicans no matter where you are anymore so I'm looking at moving to Australia.
Psychocist 7y ago
I guess I'll only truly digest this when I've been there for a while. I've never stayed in another country for long so find it hard to relate as yet. I'm with you about Australia, I might end up there myself!
TheCrippledLame 7y ago
EU? From what I know there is no law in protection of free speech am i right?
Arnoux 7y ago
There is no total free speech here neither. For example you cannot deny genocides (like the Soviet genocide).
However, several things can be discussed, what cannot really be discussed for example in Germany. You can discuss the migrant crisis. The same is not true in Germany, at least that is what I have gotten from reading reddit.
J-Mosc 7y ago
I feel like being silent is exactly what got us to this point and will only let it get worse. Why don't reasonable thinking folks shout this PC bullshit down? Why do we let businesses get away with this shit? I think it's sad that we will just roll over and lay down and let SJW be the norm of the new world. In the past we've always fought for our freedom. It cant be too late.
gELSK 7y ago
// , Remember, just as a Blue economy is very different than a Red economy, Blue politics are very different from Red politics.
The politics of order, building up, and creating are different from the politics of disorder, tearing down, and destroying. These latter work by attracting as much attention as possible, and use a language of "awareness".
Work in private. Your protests will not get media attention.
afkb39sdfb 7y ago
People are, the presidential election is evidence of this. Trump is not PC.
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[deleted] 7y ago
of course we should fight back. but please, do so smartly.
redpillschool Admin 7y ago
I think there's a place to fight this, and I'm on board with that fight. But for personal safety, the individual has better chances not speaking up. If you want to join the fight, you need to be smart about it.
thebluepool 7y ago
Because these sjws are supported by brainwashed beta men. On their own they are nothing, but with male support they've grown into the monolithic feminazi culture we see today.
Andramoiennepe 7y ago
Yes, being silent is horrifically terrible advice. Be in power. It's that simple. That power does not even have to be traditional in nature. Lead. Be a coach, a teacher, a volunteer, a member of a school board, a father, a writer. Find a way to influence people with action and ideas. Do not be silent. That is capitulation. That is weakness. That is surrender.
Utterberetacht 7y ago
They are forces beyond our control.
J-Mosc 7y ago
My grandfather didn't March though Europe fighting nazis just to raise a pussy who wouldn't risk a thing against a bunch of snowflakes . If I won't stand up for my freedom and our children's future then I don't deserve it in the first place.
I for one am not a giant puss who cowers the instant he sees the odds are against him or the numbers are scary. Be the man your father would be proud of, our children would be proud of. Fight for something bigger. Do something heroic. Some things are bigger than you. Any good men sacrificed their lives for us to have the freedom we do have .
Noramia 7y ago
My grandfather was a vichy collaborator. :(
[deleted] 7y ago
Your grandfather was marching with a couple of million others just like him backed by the largest industrial complex ever seen till that point.
You pick fights you have at least 50-50 or better shot at winning. Anything else is mental masturbation.
J-Mosc 7y ago
I don't know man, the Spartans had less than 50-50 odds and they took up the good fight. And look at them now! They got a movie made about them.
J-Mosc 7y ago
Nah, fight til the end. Give me liberty or give me death. Dying isn't so bad.
[deleted] 7y ago
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country...." Gen George S Patton
J-Mosc 7y ago
Then again this country was built upon underdogs rebelling against Mama Britain. That was not a favorable war to start by most accounts.
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[deleted] 7y ago
I am not in favor of being totally silent, just be smart about when/where you voice your opinions. We are in the right and I am not going to let mentally challenged individuals silence me.
beachbbqlover 7y ago
Next step for the thought police then, remove all anonymity. Think of the children. Think of the terrorists.
Okay great, now you can't ever express those naughty opinions.
Hitleresque 7y ago
I disagree about being silent in the open. His memo was sourced and non-inflammatory in every way possible, when discussing it you just need to be able to reference the facts and stick to them. Don't get emotional, that's what the opposition does, and it's their ultimate downfall. Speak your mind, back it up, and those worthy will follow.
CHAD_J_THUNDERCOCK 7y ago
And be suspicious of anyone granting you anonymity
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[deleted] 7y ago
what alternative would you suggest?
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RedPillHanSolo 7y ago
So, nothing really.
Yeah, reminds me of nazi Germany. Where real nazis came from, not a boogeyman that leftist idiots pretend to fight.
[deleted] 7y ago
how is your comment related to this thread?
this is not about stances that are wrong, but stances which are confirmed by scientific experiments.
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EpicLevelCheater 7y ago
So long, faggot.
Mildly_Sociopathic 7y ago
4 actual scientists responded to this. Incidentally they support the memo.
Who would've thought.
http://quillette.com/2017/08/07/google-memo-four-scientists-respond/
[deleted] 7y ago
That was a good read. Dr Debra Soh is a great find, she is like a female Jordan Peterson. I hereby award her an honorary red pill award for being a cool female. She is right up there with Esther Vilar. People like her are our greatest allies in this fight against logic and science.
[deleted] 7y ago
Bear in mind this publication is headed by Claire Lehman who like Karen Straughan, Esther Vilar, Bettina Arndt and Lauren Southern are great females who we should all be thankful for. This fight is not over boys, it is just beginning and we have many women on out side
Starter91 7y ago
It does not matter if its right or wrong, if it does not fit the current narrative then it is disposable .
belisaurius 7y ago
It's not about narrative. It's about a professional working environment. You don't throw shit at work, it's that simple.
Diplomatt_ 7y ago
Exactly! That's is if you genuinely want to keep your job. Time and place for everything.
ColinFeely 7y ago
Yeah everyone is frothing at the mouth in this thread and OP wrote a fucking novel. Guess what? No employer is going to stand for an employee to put out some memo they didn't ask for. Especially when it is controversial. True or not. Googles firing of this guy doesn't even prove they disagree just that they aren't idiots who will let an employee do whatever they want.
NSFWIssue 7y ago
Except he published it for the eyes of a few coworkers on an internal business forum devoted specifically to controversial discussion and ideas, and it was only later shared by someone else (not him) to a larger audience and to ^^^^fake news media.
backtotheocean 7y ago
I hope he gets over a billion when he sues for wrongful termination.
redpillschool Admin 7y ago
Indeed, if Google fired him because it was inappropriate to air dirty laundry, this would invalidate that. Somebody else leaked it.
In the mean time, California law might actually prohibit terminating him when he put into question whether the practice was legal. Essentially, this might be a protected question for employees.
ColinFeely 7y ago
California is an at-will employment state. Nice try tho.
InternetHateDevice 7y ago
While true, it's never that simple.
redpillschool Admin 7y ago
There seems to be a misunderstanding of how at-will works.
For instance, in an at-will employment state, an employer can simply say "You're fired for no reason at all" and be legally sound. Which is why many employers will literally do just that, no reason provided.
But if you say "I fired you because you're black" you've violated the law and it doesn't matter how at-will your state is.
ColinFeely 7y ago
Yes but this is not a discrimination case. He will have a hard time arguing that.
He made the company look bad. He was fired. Plain and simple. Doesn't matter if he is the one who made it public or not.
B_uckets 7y ago
Discussion of labor issues is specifically protected in California.
Google could be in deep shit for firing this guy since they clearly stated his "manifesto" was the reason. Or he could be getting an easy cash settlement when they realize how badly they fucked up.
redpillschool Admin 7y ago
I think it would stand to reason that since he did not publish the paper but instead made an internal memo to address what he believed were discrimination issues, that he couldn't be held liable for the public blow-back when somebody else did leak it.
In other words, the person who leaked it has a reason to be fired. The person who wrote it may be protected by California state law.
Archgaull 7y ago
Welcome to reality. College kids get kicked out for posting jokes on private message boards all the time. He did something stupid and was unprepared for the consequences of his actions.
cards237 7y ago
I smell a wrongful termination lawsuit. If the forum was set up by google as a space for discussion among its employees then what did he do wrong here? If you're gonna fire the guy at least fire the leaker too.
Archgaull 7y ago
Who said the situation was over? I'm sure Google didn't just fire this one guy and go "case closed, let's all go back to normal now peeps."
It's been like 18 hours, give them some time.
cards237 7y ago
They fired the guy the second the story picked up steam. Didn't take them much time for that. And they haven't said a peep about the leaker, in fact, most people think Damore just posted the damn thing on Facebook or something.
Archgaull 7y ago
Of course they did. He was involved in authoring a document that publicly spoke against the company's directives and could cause a backlash that is affecting the company. The other person merely leaked a document written by someone else to a forum they didn't intend to post it in. That's a far less severe offense, so of course they're going to be given a little more leeway.
TheCrippledLame 7y ago
Well, if you read the response from google I would argue that they do. Because instead of rebutting his rational, moderate, take on the companies current state. I want to point out that not even in this response did it accurately portray what he wrote in the memo. The memo actually has links to studies/statistics/facts that back his claim. So he was not making a typical "feminism is cancer, men are superior in every way" response, but in my opinion, a reasonable opening line to a dialogue about the internal state of the company itself. That is clearly in line with the protection of the 1st Amendment here in America. In googles response, they did not at all address any of the points or statistics the now fired employee brought up, but instead talked down to the employee along the lines of "sorry you think like that." I argue that the firing of the employee without rebutting any of his points reasonably only goes to prove that he was right. Certainly this led to his firing, but at some point we have to make a stand, and I applaud the man for having the level minded head and courage to stand up for what he believes is right, and supporting it with facts.
ColinFeely 7y ago
Your first amendment rights are singed away with your job contract. And they don't need to refute or debate what he said. It's pretty cut and dry I don't know why people are so freaked out by this. He talked badly about the company. He was fired. That's literally it. It's not googles stance on feminism or something.
TheCrippledLame 7y ago
You do not lose your rights, that's a violation of constitutional law and said company would be sued. That is not to say there are not certain restrictions the company may or may not place in their contract, such as "no swearing policy" for public images, things of that nature. To have an open dialogue about ones internal affairs within a company does not dictate as bad talking, unless said person specifically attacks the company with damning words, in this case he did not. However, I'd expect nothing less than for him to get fired, it was naturally going to happen because of the controversy that he started. Im making the argument that in firing him they proved his point that the company is foster an echo chamber.
cbnyc0 7y ago
But he threw a shovel. I guess in a world of shit, a shovel is terrifying.
belisaurius 7y ago
It doesn't matter what you feel like it was. What matters is you don't throw things at work. You show up, you do your job, you get paid. You do not editorialize. You do not do things that make your colleague uncomfortable.
Throwawayhelper420 7y ago
Except that in this case the employee posted his "manifesto" on a work server that is meant for employees to post and discuss controversial work-related ideas such as discrimination.
[deleted] 7y ago
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natural_ac 7y ago
Not at a major corporation especially. Take the drama and the heavy opinions to shitty small businesses and mom and pop restaurants.
logicalthinker1 7y ago
Not at Google. They WANT you to bring your viewpoints and experiences to work. That's their standard.
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seius 7y ago
uhm, he was using the appropriate channels that are designed to get input, the fact that this backfiring on google is hilarious, i bet you all the males are talking about how right this guy was, and it opened dialogue.
belisaurius 7y ago
Internal Google staff communication is certainly not the right place to talk about this kind of thing. It's an HR issue, maybe. Moreover, a random software engineer is certainly not the right person to be raising this point.
Is it? Wishful thinking much? The people who actually work there, buy Google stock and otherwise use Google products are predominantly not interested in this shit.
"Everyone is being Red Pilled! Yay!"
Let me give you a small hint: there are as many 'red pilled men' as there are 'tumblr SJWs'. Which is to say, there's a few on the internet and they're completely irrelevant in real life.
cards237 7y ago
Ok so why hasn't the leaker been fired too? He presumably violated company policy by leaking the private document.
belisaurius 7y ago
First, there's no reason to expect that this document was 'private'. Second, how is Google going to find out who it is? The journalist sure as shit isn't going to tell him. Presumably the leaker was smart enough to remove it in a non-traceable way as well (what with them being a Google Employee). Third, why would Google even want to? This whole episode makes them look good with their target group: wealthy, liberal, coastal elites.
cbnyc0 7y ago
"Just keep your head down" is not a very RP way of thinking though, is it? Editorializing is already going on, this person has been made uncomfortable, and he's pushed back. Hopefully it will lead to stronger resistance.
nninja 7y ago
It's not complicated, don't bite the hand that feeds you. If I'm paying someone for his work I don't give a flying fuck about his politics and don't care to know them. He created a problem by airing out some dirty laundry. That's not the way to go about it if you feel uncomfortable at work. You go see your superior and talk discretely, you don't fuckin post your manifesto on the work's message board.
belisaurius 7y ago
The only thing it lead to is the loss of his job and a further nationwide giggle at Red Pilling. The point of any successful philosophical movement is to find an avenue to discuss and convince without causing the general public to dismiss your ideas. This was not that. It's not brave or courageous to 'push back' in the workplace. It's the sign of someone who completely missed the point of professionalism.
cbnyc0 7y ago
So, just follow orders? Fuck that.
belisaurius 7y ago
How in the world did you construe what I said that way? It's incredibly extremist to assume something so absolute. What I said was that you, the employee, have the obligation to fit in with your colleagues. It's called "acting normal". It's why we go to school. You are entirely welcome to your opinions, and within the business context you are expected to speak up about relevant opinions. Do you think the management is doing something wrong? Write it up and present it in a respectful fashion. What you should not do is trumpet unsolicited and not business related opinions as loudly as possible at everyone who will listen. That's called grandstanding and there's no room for it in an professional workplace.
cbnyc0 7y ago
He didn't grandstand. He shared concerns about policy with a small group of relevant colleagues, and the document he prepared was full of citations, pointing out inefficiencies and bad assumptions in the company's process for dealing with a lack of diversity in the workplace. Someone else in the group shared it more broadly. I get the sense that you haven't really followed the details of this story.
seius 7y ago
tell that to the lunatic SJWs.
belisaurius 7y ago
How many of them are there, again? Remind me, also, which ones haven't been fired for doing stupid shit. Come back when you have a legit problem, not a strawman.
seius 7y ago
They have an entire department dedicated to this, with special privileges for minorities and women ... Their entire hiring policy is based on the liberal ideology you have to eat if you want to work there.
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seius 7y ago
Yeah, and Hobby Lobby and Chickfila are fucked up companies too.
belisaurius 7y ago
Well, it sounds like you have a fundamental disagreement with the suite of rights our citizens enjoy. There's not much else we can talk about, then.
seius 7y ago
If this was a company denying employment the other way around, and refused to hire blacks it would be all over the news and lawsuits filed. Im just pointing out a double standard, you cant have entry qualifications based on race/sex in this country.
[deleted] 7y ago
His document is the furthest thing from thrown shit you can get. He included numerous links for his beliefs (not that links necessarily make your argument correct), generally had a very neutral language and word choice, and wrote it for Google.
Google's "professional work environment" included restricted programs and classes for genders and races. Gender and identity politics are now apart of higher-end tech companies. And it's pretty obvious they will fire you if you talk about an opinion which goes against their particular side of politics.
belisaurius 7y ago
It absolutely is shit-flinging. It is not his job to provide commentary on political decisions of his superiors. He is not paid for that. It is an unwelcome and hostile thing for unrelated employees to start spouting off about shit that they're not responsible for. Regardless of the tone or content of his missive, the topic itself is not business appropriate. McDonalds and Walmart don't employ people who advocate for Unions. Full stop. Google doesn't employ people who advocate for fringe political beliefs on the clock. Had this guy wrote his manifesto and shared it privately, he would have been fine. But nope, herpaderp shared it on company channels on company time. There's no protection from the consequences of idiot behavior and has nothing at all to do with the political viewpoint he espoused.
It's entirely telling that you feel like he's a martyr, though. The victim complex is incredibly strong throughout your comment.
[deleted] 7y ago
Google has internal forums specifically for the purpose of talking and sharing opinions and ideas about Google for all employees, so quite clearly they are saying "Yes, please feel free to share your opinion while on the clock".
Otherwise, why have those forums at all?
No, it's me calling your post garbage because you've never written at a college level, otherwise you wouldn't have confused Damore's document for shit-flinging.
belisaurius 7y ago
Business ideas not political ones. Why is it so hard to grasp that no one wants his highly political bullshit in the office? I would be unwilling to work with someone who lacks the basic understanding of context and appropriate venues for airing divisive opinions. Moreover, you're acting like people don't understand what he's saying. Of course everyone does. It's not like the people who work at Google are retarded and need basic education in the differences between genders and the unfortunate gender imbalance of STEM in general. Everyone knows. No one needs it rehashed on the clock. It is not the job of a software engineer to single-handedly thrown down against industry wide problems.
For employees to solve business related issues and get credit for it. That's it. It's not a fucking sidewalk for everyone to air their dirty laundry and rail against the establishment.
Projection, much? You have literally no idea who I am. I'm not in the game of talking about my accomplishments on the internet because I'm fully confident in the size of my epeen. Apparently, you're not. Which goes hand in hand with your frothing at the mouth desire to flip every table you come across. Have you ever thought about the concept that just because you can doesn't mean you should? Damore had the ability to create this document and disseminate it. At no point did he consider whether that would be appropriate for someone in his position. Nor did he consider what avenue would be most appropriate for him to share it.
[deleted] 7y ago
Google lobbies and is actively involved in politics, so their business is politics. Creating programs internal to Google which exclude certain a gender or race from participating based on political themes which lobby for more inclusion within the tech community/Silicon Valley is a political statement, so Google is inviting political discourse by taking these actions. Internal discussion forums are not limited to technological problems. It can be about Google itself, which Damore's article was, so he was in the right for posting it to internal message boards despite the content. The only way he used the wrong medium for this discussion is if Google had a big sticky post at the top essentially saying "No politics here, nerds".
Moreover, Google employees are not required to read things posted on these boards. So if they didn't like this particular content, they had every tool to remove it from their work day and completely ignore its author.
But instead, some asshole fed Google's internal laundry to the press which led to public repercussions. So if you want to accuse anyone of shit-flinging, you should probably be angry at the person that did that instead of letting it remain internal and be dealt with internally.
He used the right venue, did not include any overtly hateful language, and structured his post to make a point.
I know you can't tell a well-written article from the typical shit-flinging that actually happens in businesses.
And for the record, I've never written at a college level either. But it's pretty easy to recognize civil discourse apart from shit-flinging.
belisaurius 7y ago
Again, only certain sections of the organization and certainly not some random software engineer. Context is, as you should know, key.
No, but it certainly doesn't extend to things outside the job role of the employee and it absolutely would exclude culture/HR issues.
Or, if Damore had used an iota of critical reasoning. It's not his job. It's not acceptable to drag political shit into the workplace. It's not acceptable to take an HR/Culture issue to internal discussion boards, particularly an issue of this kind.
Or, they have every right to read and reject his conclusions and then form judgements on the author based on his ideas. He does not, and never will have freedom from the consequences of free speech.
So, your conclusion is that we should be mad at someone exposing irregular behavior? Really? Let insensitive and unprofessional employees just talk shit anywhere they want? That's not how a business works. That's not how the world works. Tough shit for him and you.
Wrong venue, wrong language, bad point, and zero remorse combine to create the storm you see today.
Sure, dude. You seem to have this intense belief that, as long as you write something with some graphs and no curse words that you're free from consequences. This is patently false. No matter how much you'd like it to not be true: a software engineer has zero reason to be creating (on the clock) and disseminating (on the clock) via business resources purely political statements that serve no one. One again, everyone knows what he's laid out. Do you think senior HR people at Google don't fucking know what he said? He used publicly available information for god-sake. He's not some 'prophet' who's discovered the lost secret of gender equality. He opened his mouth at the wrong time, to the wrong people, in the wrong place.
If he wants to be taken seriously, he should work for Hobby Lobby or some other regressive organization. They will value this kind of input. Google doesn't and, as much as you may not like it, probably never will. Free market capitalism says "fuck you".
[deleted] 7y ago
Except that Google said it valued opinions from ALL employees, made forums for them to share their opinions, had specific places for controversial opinions, so it's very clear Google is different from 9-5 jobs where your posts might be accurate. They are encouraging this by making it known and making the resources available. Google is outright telling you to share your opinion.
There's literally internal Google forums for doing exactly that.
What, is it some kind of secret test where you're not actually supposed to use the things your company tells you to use?
Don't be dense. Google has tried to be a progressive organization embracing opinions, and they've fucked up because they found out they didn't like this guy's opinion. This was damage control, plain and simple.
Had it not been made public he might have been fired anyway. Who knows? The guy could have numerous sexual harassment claims in his file or other damning evidence of his character, but Google isn't making that public because Google HR is acting in a respectable manner, unlike the person who leaked this to the press.
But what's worse is you don't recognize that Google has encouraged internal opinions and discussions (some controversial) and yet, when it crosses some undefined line, they get to fire you. And they haven't defined those lines. But wait-a-minute, Google itself is talking about diversity and support for women in tech, has classes restricted based on your gender and race, so I should be good to engage in opinions about diversity and gender and race. But apparently if its employees talk about that or have a dissenting opinion, now you've crossed the line. That deserves consequences. But Google gets no consequences for restricting some classes based on gender or race.
You also don't seem to realize that Google is intentionally asking to not be treated as normal company where your advice would hold water.
You don't see the hypocrisy in this at all?
swiggitdoggy 7y ago
No wonder you fucks need this little support group. This is completely unprofessional and it's glaringly obvious why he got fired.
Starter91 7y ago
How is that unprofessional ? Fact that google has fucking vice president of diversity says something about that company on entirely different level. They have lost connection to reality, all this PC shit has gone too far.
swiggitdoggy 7y ago
If some leftist sent out prounion emails while working for Walmart would you be upset when they fired that person?
Starter91 7y ago
Okay there is no logic what are you saying now. Skin colour , gender(male or female) , etc should not have any impact for you getting the job. Either you are better qualified as others or you are not. Not bonus points for being black or a woman, it is ridiculous .
swiggitdoggy 7y ago
This is about the google dude that got fired.
Starter91 7y ago
He pointed out flaws in recruiting system , actually disadvantage that discriminated certain group of people, white people. And particulary white males , which are being witch hunted in many industries all around in USA.
swiggitdoggy 7y ago
I'm gonna guess you've never had beyond a min wage job in America. You do not send political rants throughout a company.
Also, your victim complex is hilarious whilst being in the midst of the "alphas" of the internet.
Starter91 7y ago
You still don't get it do you, he wrote that certain groups are given privileges for no reason at all, period.
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blue_27 7y ago
We aren't discussing the factual content of the memo. ... We are discussing how it makes people feel.
Draaly-Throwaway 7y ago
"4 scientists" doesn't mean shit man. Don't forget we had actual MDs saying vaccines cause autism.
redpillschool Admin 7y ago
Do you have a mirror? I can't access this.
SiulaGrande 7y ago
https://archive.is/VlNfl
i guess it was taken down... hmmm what a surprise! (whyyyy would anyone feel pressured to take down an opinion that goes against the leftist mainstream?? I just have no idea...)
[deleted] 7y ago
facts don't matter with the current left. Feels do.
ChristopherPoontang 7y ago
Very true, among some on the left. But the right has its share of anti-facts idiots as well. More conservatives than liberals want marijuana to remain illegal, for example. More conservatives than liberals reject the nearly-unanimous finding among climatologists that humans are affecting the climate.
belisaurius 7y ago
Workplace professionalism is what matters. This isn't your daddy's coal mine.
[deleted] 7y ago
Pretty much what I was saying. Feels matter and work isn't a place to discuss facts since they seem to trigger SJWs. Workplace is the most politically correct environment, gotta adapt. I'm guessing that Google senior engineer just wanted to GTFO
TonkaXcranK 7y ago
Did you just assume my Mother doesn't work in that coal mine!! So unprofessional. Lol.
[deleted] 7y ago
Somebody has to blow the miners.
redpillschool Admin 7y ago
I've never seen this many reports on a single post. I'm astounded. Our fake-report rate is actually pretty low, I had assumed trolls gave up on us because our crackerjack mod team is so quick, but it looks like somebody has an agenda today:
user reports:
4: <no reason>
2: Spam
1: inaccurate and misleading title
1: redpill
1: You all really need to get laid. Shame you are all so socially inept.
1: no they didn't you fucking retards
1: no, he was fired for being sexist
1: You guys are insane
1: No moralizing
1: Lol that's not why he was fired you mouthbreathing neanderthals
1: It's targeted harassment at someone else
1: It's rude, vulgar or offensive
1: Threatens, harrasses, or bullies
1: Threatens, harasses, or bullies
redpillbanana 7y ago
It seems like this particular truth has seriously triggered some folks out there to the point of mounting a campaign to suppress it.
[deleted] 7y ago
Haha .....the quiet majority slowly wakes and the pro equality homos can swallow a truthload
newName543456 7y ago
I thought TBP sub stands against hate speech :3 Oh, right. It's only hate speech if said by someone they disagree with, otherwise it's "PuTtInG DeRpS iN ThEiR PlAcE"
Son0fSun 7y ago
This is what happens when truth is spread, targeted attempts at silencing it.
redpillschool Admin 7y ago
That's got to be what's happening here. Because, who spends time on TRP trying to discredit us? These people are following the story itself trying to discredit it wherever they find it.
Good news is that reports won't make this disappear. I expect to see a lot of FUD in the discussions here and elsewhere.
awalt_cupcake 7y ago
Losers have a lot of free time
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redpillschool Admin 7y ago
I have our subreddit excluded from /r/all, /r/popular, default, and trending lists in our settings.
123Volvos 7y ago
Bananaland. All of it. I don't understand and I try very hard to.
ipeesometime 7y ago
Your telling me that people are upset with a bunch of manly boys who would defend sending a "manifesto" to their coworkers? Who could have known!
Fedor_Gavnyukov 7y ago
mouth breathing neanderthal checking in
Bear-With-Bit 7y ago
so evolved. still breathing out of my ass.
Draaly-Throwaway 7y ago
I don't think the immaculate/misleading title one is off though. OP basicly took a complex argument and simplified extensively so it was easier to agree with (just like people do to make arguments easier to be upset at).
He didn't say 'men and women are different' but 'men are biologically more suited to work on tech fields than women'.
redpillschool Admin 7y ago
You didn't read it, because that absolutely wasn't his conclusion, however true that conclusion probably would have been.
Leumas_J 7y ago
Lololol I love that this is at the top, the "you guys need to get laid one" one is definitely gonna hit a few tender spots
WhorehouseVet 7y ago
Hmm, that's what TRP is for, getting laid. Neckbeards and manginas are probably crying to their waifus now.
Leumas_J 7y ago
I'm willing to bet money most of you guys get absolutely zero pussy
This sub is a joke
stoicsoul87 7y ago
How much? I see an opportunity here and I'm 100% serious about this
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Pope_Lucious 7y ago
Ironically, firing him spread his message far further than he could've ever hoped for. And bolstered the credibility of his argument.
Bloody_Whombat 7y ago
Talk about calling your shots:
"As soon as we start to moralize an issue, we stop thinking about it in terms of costs and benefits, dismiss anyone that disagrees as immoral, and harshly punish those we see as villains to protect the “victims.” Stop alienating conservatives."
youkickmyd0g 7y ago
California has been weakening non-disparagement as well... I'd love for the flood gates to open. Most fucking white male engineers I know have a fucked up firing story from the big 5 and unicorns (my inner circles). A wish list side project would be to make a public registry like BBB/Yelp/Glassdoor full of disparaging accounts that name names. Anyone posting would have to use real name and be willing to defend their words in court, but I'd love to see this shit burn. It could be stored on a block chain with massive participation to ensure data integrity and anti-censorship. I know first hand those sites censor that stuff actively (shared investors, board members).
If you've ever been fired, they've reminded you of such terms. If they offer you severance you sign to accept it, basically re-iterating terms in the OG employment contract. I may or may not know the process well...
eclectro 7y ago
Did google execs even bother to read the memo?!?!?!?
My thoughts are it's the same thing that happened up at Evergreen College. Where you had a bunch of nuts running the college because the administration didn't want to offend them. Google had to bow to their (probably few) noisy offended employees. It's either that or they have fallen victim to their "monoculture."
There must be some psychological pathology behind this.
foot_odor 7y ago
Exactly, for many he will become a "martyr" of this cause.
shineoneme 7y ago
Guy has a Phd from Harvard. He can easily find another job.
[deleted] 7y ago
Not in Silicon Valley
eCLADBIro9 7y ago
He doesn't have a PhD
mutageno 7y ago
Employers would be careful with someone with so much media exposure. Do you think a company like Facebook will hire him? I hope he manages to get something reasonable out of this.
[deleted] 7y ago
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SirByron 7y ago
This is an illegal firing and he should sue them. Win both ways.
CHIPPENDALESIXNINE 7y ago
The best part about this, is that 60 female employees are now pressing charges on Google. This means Google now has to take a side and either pay the women, or backtrack and make the same arguments the man they wrongfully terminated did. Irony at its best.
M_Justice 7y ago
Wow. There is also a Labor Relations Board investigating the alleged hiring/pay gap differences at Google. Does anyone realize that 80% of CS majors are men and women's entry into the field is limited based on educational and vocational choices? Women are also underrepresented in construction, mining, janitorial/garbage collection jobs, etc. but how come they are not complaining about that?
phamousTRP 7y ago
James Damore reached out to Jordan Peterson and they have an hour long video interview here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU
rp_nc 7y ago
The 48 laws of power, law 38: "Think as you like, but behave like others".
[deleted] 7y ago
That's retarded. What's the point of thiking right if you can't live your life according to your true ideals. Where I'm from the saying goes "Talk like them, but do what you want."
5t3fan0 7y ago
lies always fill the belly, while truth might starve you dead
francisco_DANKonia 7y ago
If his goal is to obtain power within google, then yes. But, like Trump, I think the more relevant rule is to stay in the spotlight. This guy will be snatched up by another company so fast.
SirByron 7y ago
The way for evil to spread is for good men to keep quiet.
StummpyTrump 7y ago
The problem with a lot of this corporate feminism stuff is that's if we don't stand up to it it's just going to get worse. If all you care about is getting to the top then you can try to play along with the feminist nonsense and hope you don't get fucked over by the fact that you're a white male. But if you have more self-respect than that I don't see what's wrong with standing up to stupidity once in a while.
Diplomatt_ 7y ago
Law 1. Never outshine the master
memphisjohn 7y ago
^^^ this is right... it doesn't matter that this Phd engineer is "correct" ... all that matters is that he was stupid.
Or, hey, maybe he was done with that job anyway, so why not flame out as you leave.
Looks like he will have plenty of job offers from redpill employers.
kickturkeyoutofnato 7y ago
deleted ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.1386 ^^^What ^^^is ^^^this?
Bing400 7y ago
That's exactly right. Of course the CEO understands his view, but there are bigger forces at work here, and he the CEO knows this.
rockmasterflex 7y ago
Yes. He was not fired for having a researched opinion, but for disturbing the workforce by talking about it.
[deleted] 7y ago
[deleted]
[deleted] 7y ago
It's a book, look it up. Good read.
eclectro 7y ago
And why he was ready to depart google. “law 25 Re-Create Yourself
Do not accept the roles that society foists on you. Re-create yourself by forging a new identity, one that commands attention and never bores the audience. Be the master of your own image rather than letting others define if for you. Incorporate dramatic devices into your public gestures and actions – your power will be enhanced and your character will seem larger than life.” ― Robert Greene, The 48 Laws of Power
[deleted] 7y ago
He's kryptonite now except for some alt-right orgs. Lefties have figured out how to bury someone.
His best hope is that the attention blows over and this gets burried in search results in a year or two.
swordshab 7y ago
So be submissive and live in a snowflake society. Soon we won't be allowed to think as we like
vorot93 7y ago
Two words: secret societies
HoundDogs 7y ago
We're getting there. Trouble is you need to analyze people personally as it's too easy to infiltrate when recruiting online.
[deleted] 7y ago
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letmepick 7y ago
Would you rather live as a free sheep or a chained lion?
Squats4urmom 7y ago
No you keep your mouth shut, get paid, get status, and use your resources for influence, play the long game.
Yankee_Fever 7y ago
this! if i owned a company and one of my employees diddnt agree with my politics... then he can start his own company and go fuck off.
i completely agree with the author of the memo, and i also completely agree with google for firing him. if you dont like our policies or politics, then go build your own company and kill us.. too many chiefs not enough indians.
Squats4urmom 7y ago
not enough Indians? Fucking sjw's. Probably your fault all these NCAA schools had to change their names.
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rathyAro 7y ago
You gotta be brave at some point. This guy was a google engineer, he's never going to want for money.
fromthecrypt8 7y ago
True. But be brave from a position of "fuck you".
This guy hopefully has (or at least should have) options waiting for him after he sent that memo. Keeping his job at Google should be way less important to him than the attention both the memo and his firing generates in the press/social media. And for that to be the case, he needs option prior to sending out that memo.
Before reaching the fuck you position, one needs to be more quiet and/or deceptive.
Edit: I guess when you are in the fuck you position, it can hardly be called bravery, in which case I disagree that bravery is needed in these kind of cases. Bravery is usually needed on different levels to get to that position though, facing own fears etc.
Squats4urmom 7y ago
Solid counterpoint.
My point was to throw some 0's on that money where he can own media outlets and influence elections, policy, and the way people think.
If you play the long game though, the snowflakes will say it is "unfair" when you succeed.
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KillerTom 7y ago
I doubt any software engineer makes under say 85k
[deleted] 7y ago
I doubt any doctor at google is under 140k
Snowplow2017 7y ago
NOT related, but I was kind of surprised to see that NASA was paying the planetary defence guy (microbes not rocks) 125k.
blocknewb 7y ago
"I play the long game, Mr Castle."
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wanderer779 7y ago
Politics are so divisive especially these days that there is really no room to discuss it. It's like the whole world is a college classroom. If you disagree with the professor he's going to get emotional and flunk you. If you want to get a smiley face on your paper so you can get your magic paper that permits you to get the golden shekels, you wait to hear their opinion and then repeat it back to them come test time.
natural_ac 7y ago
As a former Political Science instructor....I made it a point to play devil's advocate with every possible political opinion. The more people agreed with each other, the harder I pressed a different view.
Your college experience was atypical and bad.
wiseprogressivethink 7y ago
I'd say it was pretty typical and bad.
Dynamaxion 7y ago
Bad yes, atypical... to an ever decreasing extent.
natural_ac 7y ago
Probably has a lot to do with what kind of program you're in. Are you in electrical engineering or cultural anthropology? I could see a lot of differences between those courses.
RidlyX 7y ago
Sadly it's pretty typical for non-political science classrooms
ObviouslyRP 7y ago
I actually found a college that seems to be sort of right-leaning. Or at least there are man teachers on the right side of political spectrum in one way or another. Had a social influence teacher who was constantly sneaking in subversive shit about poor people being bad and a philosophy teacher preaching anti Islam and anti homosexual stuff
Edit: also a pretty hardcore conservative Chinese immigrant business teacher who's only left leaning thought was on environmental issues due to there insane pollution in china
natural_ac 7y ago
Perhaps it was a social science thing. Psychology and political science made it a point to challenge every ideal you held....right or left. No free thoughts.
RidlyX 7y ago
My psychology classes were great. Tons of good discussion. My compsci classes... Well, those topics were discouraged in all interactions with classmates, especially if it wasn't completely politically correct. I mean, just look at the Google document incident - the document is very accurate. It's not that men are "built to dominate women," it's a variety of factors that are biological and cultural and ingrained from a young age. And that culture isn't changed by hiring 50% of each sex - it's changed by telling men to worry about work life balance more and telling women to chase after status more.
natural_ac 7y ago
I took bio, astronomy, botany, and zoology....not much room there for political and cultural discussions. Same for statistics courses. In those courses you did the work and was as polite as possible to everyone around you. Very similar to corporate America. Do your work and be nice.
RidlyX 7y ago
Well, in corporate America, you don't have warriors of political correctness pushing their ideas in unrelated classes, while being endorsed implicitly by the teacher.
"Women are underpaid in compsci" - acceptable statement in my compsci classes
"The gender gap exists because women are under-represented in higher-level positions due to a variety of cultural influences" - unacceptable statement, student encouraged to take a break from class
Granted, people pushing ideas tend to be gone by the time you are done with weed-out classes, but they are very much endorsed by the universities on a fairly large scale
[deleted] 7y ago
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RidlyX 7y ago
From my impression, that's most schools. I hear a lot of similar experiences. It's frustrating, but it's not worth fighting.
Bolt_Ironstag 7y ago
Sounds like my former philosophy prof. He was not well liked by the slackers looking for an easy A. Thanks for challenging people. I won't name him here, but he's one of two intructors I remember 8 years later.
tekhnomancer 7y ago
The problem is that it's actually good.
Professors are inadvertently teaching you to pander to your employers. Failure to do so could result in being out of a job. Is it right? No. But I'm in an at-will state. I can be fired based on nothing more than capricious vindication.
Daekar3 7y ago
Actually that was about 50 percent of my college classes.
silentwraith187 7y ago
Hardly atypical. Many teachers prefer a parrot to a logical thinker.
Original_Dankster 7y ago
Thanks for being a good teacher... But in my experience, your classes are atypical sadly.
PB_n_honey_taco 7y ago
No, it's very typical, and yours is EXTREMELY atypical.
lrish_Chick 7y ago
Agree I've been teaching literary theory to first year uni students, including concepts that encompass gender and political theory. I encourage people to have their own point of view - I hate being bored by the same old same old leftist arguments - so the more individual or different your perspective (as long as you argue it well) the better you'll do - in my class anyway.
natural_ac 7y ago
Now I'm in risk analytics for one of the top 4 banks. Much more politically correct here than on a college campus.
wanderer779 7y ago
Yeah I guess your anecdote trumps my anecdote. Oh well, you can't win 'em all.
vwzwv 7y ago
Well playedSmooth move, Law 1: Never Outshine the Master.fuckyouripod 7y ago
As a former college student:. Your class sounds like no class I ever took. The "regurgitate and receive A" was precisely what my college experience was.
natural_ac 7y ago
I would say you get out of it what you put into it.
fuckyouripod 7y ago
I got 2 degrees out of it and really enjoyed what I learned...but that guy ain't wrong. For most of us, it's repeat back to professor his own words to receive the A.
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natural_ac 7y ago
Totally agree. I'm in risk management analytics with one of the top 4 banks in the US. If it isn't HR appropriate....keep it to yourself.
lfxahab 7y ago
I remember 4-5 of the 40 or so professors I had in class during my degree felt the need to push their political opinions on the class, and all but one were various business classes.
I was non traditional and knew better, but 18-22 year old kids still look at professors as authority figures and gulp down whatever is fed to them.
natural_ac 7y ago
There's a time and place for that type of learning style. Bio 1 for instance. No surprises there. No controversy. Prof tells you stuff...you nod and take notes.
Now, liberal arts and social sciences are much more challenging to individual opinions. Mostly because the social sciences empircally approach questions that a lot people have an opinion on....an opinion often times galvanized by family, friends, church, and communities at large.
When you grow up being told that policy X is bad. You believe it because you're surrounded by similar thinkers. But, you may get to a social science course and discover that evidence suggests the opposite. What then? Discussion. Debate. Engagement. That's the beautiful thing about college.
KDXanatos 7y ago
Your class is the kind I would have looked back on and thought it was money well spent...unlike the other 95% of my entire education.
If only any of my lib arts professors actually tried to teach us to think instead of parroting their own views.
natural_ac 7y ago
Admittedly, I'm more liberal than conservative...mostly due to my disagreement with a majority of conservative social policies but I was very critical of Obama's Nobel Peace Prize and the Fast & Furious arms failure. I showed views from Fox, Breitbart, Daily Show, CNN, Crooks and Liars, and the Drudge Report.
My personal studies involved political psychology so I discussed bias, group think, message framing, and political socialization.
I feel like the more you know about where your own opinion really comes from...the better you are at dealing with different opinions, cognitive dissonance, and you're less likely to place yourself inside an echo chamber.
People need to stop calling each other snowflakes and have a beer together or go bowling together. Similarities bring us together, differences should make it interesting.
Diplomatt_ 7y ago
This true. You can disagree with someone face to face but not think they are a bad person and can see where they are coming from. Those different viewpoints of people you respect challenge your own and force you to learn more about what you ACTUALLY think. Simply can't happen in an online exchange.
redpillschool Admin 7y ago
The parties are poorly defined these days anyhow. Trump ran as a Republican on a circa 2001 democrat platform with a few tweaks.
The social conservatives are slowly being phased out of the republican party, and the new popular members of the party are pushing fiscal conservatism while accepting a mostly liberal social policy.
natural_ac 7y ago
I look forward to the day the Freedom Caucus lose their seats.
LateralThinker13 7y ago
I'd love to just have a beer or go bowling with them. But snowflakes are snowflakes for a reason, and it's hard to find a more intolerant, self-centered, unpleasant person to be around. I'd rather hang with my buds.
natural_ac 7y ago
I didn't say it was easy. I hate the phrase snowflake. But, doing what you'd rather do is the path of least resistance. I recommend reading Putnam's Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community. It's about the decline of social capital in America after 1950. It was written in 2000 and, personally, I feel like it has only gotten worse.
People prefer their comfort zones. We need to be more tolerant and challenged constantly.
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e-mess 7y ago
Or just get a job where papers don't matter, and have the pleasure of telling idiots to GFT.
CuckedByTRUMP 7y ago
You mean if you are on the right. If you are on the left you can openly discuss it nonstop.
wanderer779 7y ago
yeah that is what I mean by agreeing with the professor. Although at this point I think it's best to just avoid the subject entirely because they can always find a way to crucify you even if you try to agree with them (witness all the hate male feminists get on social media).
There is always pressure to conform to whatever the orthodoxy is wherever you are. I have been employed in places that are mostly conservative and they don't like it when you disagree with them. The difference is they will just argue with you and maybe talk about you behind your back, whereas in left-leaning places you'll get fired for speaking out. Also in conservative circles there seems to be a lot of leeway given if you're basically a good person. I knew a super left openly lesbian woman who worked around a bunch of Trump supporters. She bashes Trump and conservatives constantly on social media and these guys respond by telling her she's wrong and then usually concluding with something like, "but you know I love ya". She probably still gets invited out drinking with them. Not so with the lefties.
[deleted] 7y ago
Bro this is a seriously naive analysis of your college education. Perhaps you had some shitty professors or went to a bad school but that does not sound like my college experience or that of anyone I knew. Critical thinking and disagreement with professors were common place and welcomed, so long as you could support your argument.
wanderer779 7y ago
It's hard to see how my analysis of my own experience could be less naive than yours, since I experienced and you didn't. It was a decent university. Not elite but not terrible. It was ABET accredited and the average SAT was 1300.
redpillschool Admin 7y ago
Unless you're a democrat, they tend to get a free pass.
ChristopherPoontang 7y ago
Nah, both sides have their idiotic finger-waggers. On the left you have sjw's and their hyper-pc culture. On the right you have social conservatives who want to lock up adult marijuana smokers (or are ok with certain states making that decision) and theocrats. Neither side can claim a higher ground here.
redpillschool Admin 7y ago
Old conservative prohibitionists don't get much blow-back, probably because there hasn't been a morality attached to the issue. They're also losing on that front, so they may not even be considered a threat anymore.
But the minute a republican talks about abortion, they're misogynists in our culture.
Meanwhile, the left advocates child abuse and nobody notices.
natural_ac 7y ago
Advocates child abuse? Source please.
ChristopherPoontang 7y ago
"Meanwhile, the left advocates child abuse and nobody notices" Wow, you sure like to generalize (about the left). Are you intellectually consistent? Are you fine with "the right wants to control women" narrative? Or do your sweeping, negative generalizations only go one way? edited to add that the downvotes prove there are just as many conservative snowflakes as there are liberal ones!
slapgentle 7y ago
Jordan B Peterson just did an interview with the guy who wrote the memo: https://youtu.be/SEDuVF7kiPU Edit: changed the url
bsutansalt 7y ago
Tons of solutions here if you're fed up with Google. I stopped using them for searches and went with Bing ever since they fucked with search results favoring Clinton during the election cycle last fall.
h/t /u/genius0o7
For all the pedes trying to avoid google, their main source of income is you. Yes you, pede. You are the data they sell to third party agencies. Your gmail accounts are scrubbed for targeted keywords. Your search history is attached to your ip. Your entire internet presence through (chrome) the internet is being monitored 1984 style to "package" to a bidder.
Words of wisdom to live by - "If a service is free, you are the product"
Avoidance comes in three stages - Desktop, Mobile, and Network Security. I'll tackle each in their respective fields. I am recommending duckduckgo as the search engine but you can substitute any you deem noncucked. Hope this helps everyone out there.
Desktop Browsers:
For most internet activities, you should really secure your browser from Google. I suggest:
Opera -Benefits include built-in ad blocker, battery saver and free VPN. http://www.opera.com/
Sync from Chrome to Opera https://blogs.opera.com/news/2016/04/how-to-sync-bookmarks-faq-opera/
Set duckduckgo to autosearch http://ccm.net/faq/33932-opera-how-to-change-the-default-search-engine
Firefox - Benefits in recent updates includes using less resources (than previous) and privacy with app installation. Also has addons and a vibrant community. https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/desktop/
Sync from Chrome to Firefox https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/import-bookmarks-google-chrome
Set duckduckgo to autosearch https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/change-your-default-search-settings-firefox
Firefox add-ons http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/firefox-security-plugins/
Vivaldi - Benefits include super lightweight, highly customizable, and quick commands. https://vivaldi.com/?lang=en_US
Sync from Chrome to Vivaldi and Autosearch - Not yet.
Brave - Privacy focused browser https://brave.com/
Sync from Chrome to Brave - Not yet.
Set Duckduckgo to autosearch - requires some file mctrickery, specifically "change the defaultOpenSearchPath in js/constants/config.js from Google to './content/search/duckduckgo.xml', it'll search duckduckgo by default"
Mobile:
Opera and Firefox sync to mobile once logged in. I have a slight gripe with opera mobile - it tends to hang for 2-3 seconds after opening not to mention a million other mobile browsers.
Secure yo' shiiiiiit - Network Security
First - Get a VPN. What is a VPN? Click Here https://www.whatismyip.com/what-is-a-vpn/ There are in-browser apps that do it as well as standalone programs. Most of the good ones that don't keep logs are paid services. The ones that are free tend to sell your data to third parties, much like the Goog'. Here are a few I would recommend:
CyberghostVPN http://www.cyberghostvpn.com/en_us
VyprVPN https://www.goldenfrog.com/vyprvpn
IpVanish https://www.ipvanish.com/
ExpressVPN https://www.expressvpn.com/
Also, these allow you to connect outside the US servers and Torrent http://www.tixati.com/download data through websites such as Thepiratebay. http://www.thepiratebay.se/ Make sure you don't download any copyright material though, like the new game of thrones episode, as that is illegal copyright infringement.
Pro-pede-tip - Credit to /u/FanOfGusts Create host file https://www.reddit.com/u/FanOfGusts
Email
While I don't have any specific ones i've tried (hotmail user since 1995), there are a few alternatives around the net. Here is a list to get yall started migrating away from Gmail http://thetechreader.com/tech/top-4-free-email-alternatives-to-gmail-that-protect-your-privacy-best-gmail-alternatives-2016/
Facebook
This POS Zuck the Cuck. I know you pedes stay connected to the plebs through FB. No doubt about it it's a necessary evil we'd like to eradicate from our lives. One way of securing it is to go here. https://www.facebook.com/ads/preferences/?entry_product=ad_settings_screen Click the top right corner of all the boxes in each phantom dropdown column for an in-depth look at the datamine FB and Goog' have been collecting on you pedes. Last one. I'm really going to bed this time.
gELSK 7y ago
// , If you want to see something even stranger, try searching Google for TheRedPill.
SwarupMondal 7y ago
And what about YouTube? I mean, as far as I know, it's YouTube's CEO, Susan Wojcicki who fired James Damore.
SmokedSalmon5 7y ago
Do I have to uninstall chrome or just stop using it to stop the collection?
Wolffstamps 7y ago
I'm pretty sure you could also: just bookmark pages you use frequently, go to the website directly through URL link, change your 'new tab' screen into the Opera 'speed dial' deal. I am sure this is possible for most browsers through settings, too. Right now, it's great to see TRP combating this issue with such a response time. It's never good to see a fellow Red-Pilled be sent downwards.
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brucewvyne 7y ago
you have a lot of time on your hands
ObviouslyRP 7y ago
Fuck I've always wanted to stop supporting Google but it's just so much work to unplug from them. Unplugging from the BP delusions. Easy simply requires a paradigm shift. Unplugging from Google requires research and all sorts of effort.
Reformed65 7y ago
This really opened my eyes to how fucked up Google can get.
Unfortunately it seems that for YouTube and Android, I may have to stick with those.
I'll check out Proton Mail and start migrating, leaving the Gmail for YouTube and Android.
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Draaly-Throwaway 7y ago
So the title is clickbait and while in the vein of what he said, isn't the same at all.
adolfsbff 7y ago
Opera seems too good to be true though, and is it true it's a Chinese browser?
[deleted] 7y ago
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afkb39sdfb 7y ago
Don't forget to delete the apps off your phone, they run silently in the background and farm your info.
Aan2007 7y ago
you know Opera is chinese browser, right?
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redpillbanana 7y ago
Great list, thank you.
QFT.
Also: free is great, but let's say Google decides to shut down your Gmail account. What recourse do you have? None...you're not a paying customer.
Fastmail: I've heard great things about Fastmail so it might be worth adding to your list. They take bitcoin and also support U2F. Do you value your email service? Then it's worth paying for.
Protonmail: (on your list already) is great too. They also take bitcoin (and also have a free version), but no U2F yet...hopefully they will support it soon.
Since I'm touting U2F, and we're talking about security, I'll mention that Opera version 40 or later supports U2F. Firefox doesn't seem to yet, though it's been on their buglist for over 3 years. However, it's easy enough to install an add-on that supports it.
If you care about security, you should be using U2F as there's no better widespread solution out there. Get a Yubikey or an Onlykey.
buckshotdblaught 7y ago
For the mobile, do you mean Firefox and Opera are options for mobile browsers?
I found a Firefox mobile OS that works for Android, do you have any experience or recommendations on that?
DanklyNight 7y ago
What if you are a paying customer of Gmail?
jdotg 7y ago
https://mic.com/articles/85101/10-corporations-receiving-massive-public-subsidies-from-taxpayers
You are as a taxpayer to the tune of 600 million at least.
DanklyNight 7y ago
I'm not American, so cheers?
Yankee_Fever 7y ago
bro. not only is every single president exactly the same, but if you boycott google you wont be able to function withing society in a couple years.
android and google are the two most powerful forces, arguably in the world right now
Reformed65 7y ago
Android is powerful because it's well established, cheap and powerful as well as having access to a lot of applications.
But if stop using services like Google search engine and Gmail as our main resource, Google will take a hit, and soon overtaking Android will get easier because as Google gets weaker, so does Android and developers and phone companies will look at other alternatives.
gELSK 7y ago
// , Google doesn't own Android.
jerdna-- 7y ago
Bro I'm running android phone without google for maybe 2 years, never had issue with any feature.
Yankee_Fever 7y ago
if you want to boycott google then you should move to africa and go hunt in the jungle.
take the good with the bad. any company that is going to innovate our species is going to do the same shit
Reformed65 7y ago
Google has a lot of power in the technological world, they're aware they can do this.
We need Google, as you said well put, to function well in society.
Continue to use Gmail and Android, again, not for main usage. Companies need competition, otherwise we'd get corporatism.
afkb39sdfb 7y ago
Proton Mail
Free, based in Switzerland and protected by Swiss privacy laws.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_privacy_law#Switzerland
Also, GOOGLE TRACKS AND SAVES EVERYTHING YOU DO on your google account. Maps location history, device info, web & app activity, voice & audio activity, YouTube activity. Delete it and turn it off. https://myaccount.google.com/activitycontrols
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/google-history-search-tracking-data-how-to-delete
[deleted] 7y ago
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afkb39sdfb 7y ago
I didn't know that, been meaning to get a VPN.
[deleted] 7y ago
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afkb39sdfb 7y ago
$4 a month is really good too
[deleted] 7y ago
Congrats on the most upvoted post in TRP history!!
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XanJamZ 7y ago
Alot of missed punctuation made that difficult to read.
u-r-silly 7y ago
They didn't wait long to completely prove his point.
En-Zu 7y ago
lmao this is what's so fundamentally funny about the whole thing. Guy says that feminists are obsessed with taboo and orthodoxy. Feminists condemn piece by calling it taboo. kek.
I hope it blows up because it's actually an incredibly rational and well-reasoned piece and anyone who actually reads it will be blown away at the disparity between descriptions of it and the actual thing.
sickofallofyou 7y ago
Assange offered him a job. I'd say it's blowing up nicely.
FacingHardships 7y ago
Where did you see that?
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anon35201 7y ago
The fact that the guy was fired for the mentally deranged pc reasons he put so eloquently into his essay is the most delicious irony.
Its like Islam's strategy where muslims use terrorist violence against anyone who says that muslims are intolerant or that islam is violent.
The over reaction is pretty much a solid proof that everything in his essay is absolutely right, at least in this organization, and soceity as a whole is harming itself to maintain these wrong, unstable and inconsistent delusions. This guy is falling on his sword in style like socretes.
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eclectro 7y ago
I was disappointed in NPR, because it in yesterday's show it really sounded like that they justifying the outrage to what seems like to me a calm, reasoned piece.
It was like they were "giving permission" to google to fire Damore. So google did.
This also seemed like a case of "shoot now, and ask questions later" by google. I hope that the questions make them squirm.
Black_Dragon_King 7y ago
Islam isn't a sentient collective. It's a bunch of different groups fighting each other 99% of the time. You'd be putting the ones who support Assad and those who appose him and the I hate both groups in the same party and that's only 1 country. Times that by every country.
There isn't even a collective agreement in the salafi/sufi/or shia camp.
[deleted] 7y ago
Most of the Islamic world is Sunni though, thus the terrorism from Wahabi mindsets. Sufi/mystic Islam is rather minor in the grand scheme of things
RAQBU 7y ago
Neither did the women employees who decided they'd take the day off because they were 'upset by the manifesto'
RAQBU 7y ago
Neither did the women employees who decided they'd take the day off because they were 'upset by the manifesto'
nninja 7y ago
The moron posted a 10page rant of the company on the company's message board. Wtf you think will happen? Doesn't matter if he's right or wrong, it's just not acceptable. Google had to fire him.
our_guile 7y ago
Copying /u/Leviathan97 's post here:
D'amore played Google like a fiddle.
nninja 7y ago
In what way?? You guys think because he writes in an intellectual manner and adds some pseudo science he's a genius? Google would not fire someone without a legal team OK'ing it first? Every company with a legal team does this, first HR/management will give you a warning. Then they go talk to the legal department who OK's your firing, then they fire you. You guys are reading too much into this and adding stories for nothing, this isn't crime novel. He's a programmer not fuckin Harvey Spencer.
Leviathan97 7y ago
You've got to figure this dude was thinking a few moves ahead. Google management's completely predictable reaction brought his piece far more attention than had they simply poo-pooed it internally and moved on like he was just some whack job and it was no big deal. By firing him (and I agree that he probably anticipated that, and was already prepared for it), they've lent far more legitimacy to his arguments than he ever could've achieved on his own. (Which I guess also proves another one of his points—all the old white guys in senior management really are more competent regarding systems than people.)
[deleted] 7y ago
Google own Youtube too, and youtube has also being playing the SJW game, so everyone who cares about free speech or is not fully onboard with a Marxist future is going to be looking elsewhere. One of those alternatives is mind.com, and I believe their CEO already offered to hire this guy before he was fired. I don't doubt that there are plenty of others who a) would like to get such a highly qualified engineer with his experience and b) would like to put one in the eye of feminists and SJWs (no longer sure if that is one category or two).
eclectro 7y ago
Google hires incredibly smart people. He's playing 4D chess with google, and google has already lost.
itsawomensworld 7y ago
It's true the leftist management at Google are probably ill prepared for an intelligent engineer.
The media literally said that this was the CEO's toughest challenge yet!!! LMAO the guy runs a $700B company and an issue concerning one male employee feeling their policies are bad is their biggest issue.
You serious? All the left can think about is race, sex etc. That's all they can logic with or deal with.
In left land you win arguments by how good a person you are. And you're good if you acknowledge that white people suck and oppress everyone else. Also you're good if you're black, or trans etc. The less down on the scale you are the more you need to apologize for who you are. Women have to apologize to black women. Who have to apologize to trans people. The whole thing is fucking hilarious.
40 years from now people will look at this the way we view communism of the 1960's.
productive_monkey 7y ago
I think Google would have taken a huge hit if they didn't fire him.
eclectro 7y ago
From their own employees?? That's the same pathological nonsense that led the administration at Evergreen College to let people chase whites around campus with baseball bats.
In other words, "the inmates are running the asylum."
productive_monkey 7y ago
Yes, from their own employees, which skews heavily liberal leftist, probably including most of the female employee population. Most likely they will get some media fallout for not firing the guy.
eclectro 7y ago
While it may be one of those damned if you do damned if you don't situation, I'd be willing to bet that they'll pay more long term rather than withstanding the heat for holding on to him and letting those that wanted to walk.
Seriously, some employees had to take the day off because of the memo wtf?? I won't even get into the psychos proposing violence.
-ATLAS-_ 7y ago
I shouldn't be surprised, but what's worrisome is that he's talking about statistics, NOT ideology, and yet it devolved into name calling so fast it's ridiculous. It's like today's version of McCarthyism and calling someone a communist, or the 2000's version of questioning war in Iraq and people being afraid of not being a patriot or saying you "support terrorism".
It's just so obvious there's political agendas involved once it gets to these points, so the only question left is "who's political agenda, and why?" History looks so obvious after the fact, but while it's happening everybody just joins the social masses in not questioning any statistics and just getting in line to avoid any social stigma.
M_Justice 7y ago
You are right. We are living in a new political age where targeting communists has now been replaced by targeting men. I wrote an article about this era of post-liberal democracy where the only thing left in modern western politics was for people to turn on each other for their personal beliefs and differences when not in conformity with the masses.
http://menslaws.com/index.php/2016/10/04/last-man/
-ATLAS-_ 7y ago
Here's my view. The most proven weapon for ruling over people is "divide & conquer". Historically it works better than any other tool for controlling a population of people.
We've seen a huge shift since 2012 take place on the interne. One year google is saying "never use your real name or information online" and the next they're FORCING everyone's real name and information and accounts and trying to tie it all together with your phone number. The shift in reddit literally shutting down certain subreddits and the changes in moderation ( and the loss of Aaron Schwartz along with the Pao controversy)... The crackdown on certain hacker groups. The changes in many sites privacy policy settings (how many of those have we all had to click to agree with). The disturbing changes in Windows ten vs. windows seven's privacy policy... These things that happened during the same shift make you have to look back and go "ok, but what happened right before that." And my best guess is all the 1% rallies against wall street that were happening. Look at reddit front page one year and it was literally leading to policy changes and rallies on the front page that had huge policy shifts and literally rallies across the nation, and the next year it went through a huge shift in separate groups and the rise of the moderators (and the other founder of reddit just so happened to get a nice little book tour during the same time). Literally the movement was front page one year day after day, and the next it was gone.
A lot of things happened during that time that broke up "the 99%". Just look even online at the two biggest "hashtag movements" since that time, and you see really clearly the shift away from being "99% vs 1%" and into "men vs. women" and "white vs. black". Gamergate, and BlackLivesMatter. Literally those two were turned into "men vs. women" and "black vs. white". So if you had 99% of the population, divide it in half and you have men vs. women. The next biggest difference is literally the color of skin.
Divide & Conquer. You don't have to face a mob if you can get them to fight each other, and the 1% rallies practically disappeared without a trace in a very short time frame. Again, I'm not saying that's concretely what happened...honestly I have no idea. But looking at the biggest differences in one year to the next and everything that's happened since then, it's hard to not see the "biggest issues" politically during that time and avoid pairing it with how we see people treating each other today. A lot of the differences can't even be talked about even statistically, it just goes straight to name calling and "us vs. them" mentality right away.
itsawomensworld 7y ago
I am switching from google for email and possibly search. I don't think big brother has kept to their motto of "do no evil."
Google was one of the first stocks I purchased in 2008 but that company that I knew and loved is now dead with this hateful company who believes in intersectionality. That victimhood makes you good.
The media's reaction to this is even worse than Google. Remember the days when they would run over the entire southern US to find the one person who wouldn't bake a gay person a cake and then go SEE YOU'RE ALL RACISTS!!!!
with stories drying up, they now turn to claiming anything people write is sexist. Now simply saying men and women have biological differences and offering some explanations for them makes you a sexist pig. I think the left needs to take it's head out of its ass if it wants anyone else to jump on board their ship going forward.
Remember when the left used to just be about hating the rich? Why can't all leftists be Bernie sanders (who I dislike but I can at least respect). In stead we are all Elizabeth Warren leftists who hate the rich but also hate men, white people , black people. love Trans. It's all about identity to them.
levingert 7y ago
It is sexist. But that doesn't mean it's not true
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[deleted] 7y ago
proving further that feminism is a shit test... when presented with a shit test, you never explain, defend, or supplicate. this guy did all 3.
you agree/amplify or mock the notion that the question is asked at all.
duruga 7y ago
Agree and amplify does not work either when they have political over you.
Feminists are influencing policy. You have to comply with the feminist laws. You can agree and amplify all you want, you still have to comply. Your kids will be subjected to strong feminist indoctrination through all their education, you can agree and amplify all you want. Its still going to happen.
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trplurker 7y ago
He's correct. Men have 12~14x higher testosterone then women, testosterone is responsible for aggressive, competitive high risk behaviors like ambition and the desire to be better then everyone else in a field. Those are the traits required to make it to highly competitive executive positions, they are also the traits that can cause burn out, homelessness, prison time and other socially negative situations. The women who do make it into those highly competitive positions on merit do it by compensating for lack of testosterone with pure ruthlessness. Then we have differences in the neuropathing inside the brain, male and female brains are wired differently, the cause of which seems to be the presence of testosterone during fetal development.
This is a biological fact. You can hate it all you want, wont' change how nature specialized the human genders for specific biological advantages that enhanced the survival rate of homo-sapiens.
[deleted] 7y ago
Women prefer intangible benefits in a job like time off, reduced hours etc.
Men have sexual pressures to earn as much as possible and thus compete to earn more, despite the consequences, as though their genetic lineage depends on it.
TaxFreeNFL 7y ago
I can barely see you way up there on that high road.
I bet it takes you forever to boil an egg.
[deleted] 7y ago
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TaxFreeNFL 7y ago
Really? All those words? Then a challenge after that horse shit drivel? Conservatives tend to what? I'm so sorry I said a thing.
Carry on soldier...
[deleted] 7y ago
Your essay is sound, but you should remove the "exercising their free speech" phrase. Free speech does not apply within a employer/employee relationship, especially when the document was written as an internal memo, written on company time.
nninja 7y ago
While bashing the company...for a supposedly smart guy he's a fuckin moron.
biggerbetterjobs 7y ago
As much as I agree with him. It's a bit socially stupid to just be so crass and tasteless about it.. Or even bringing it up in the first place (What you think google is going to fire all their female employees or "diversity" approach because joe schmoh software engineer wrote a bitchy letter?) Especially considering the common SJW themes these "official" work offices seem to have with their HR departments. I agree that men are more predisposed to work in tech/computers or some other technical occupation. However that's not to say women can't do those jobs just as well as men or should be barred from entering those environments.
It's relative to an italian guy saying to his boss at the pasta company "Italians are more predisposed at making pasta than a swede." Sure they may be.. But that doesn't mean a swede can't get just as good at making pasta as an italian with time. It also doesn't constitute a swede receiving a lower wage than an italian to work a basic entry level position. To not hire the swede or pay him less than the italian (same job position) would be unlawful discrimination.
Some hire level official at google probably saw how socially stupid this guy was, deemed that he might be a future problem in the workplace and pulled a power move on his ass because software engineers are easily replaceable these days-especially for companies like google. For some super smart coder guy who went to a really good college, this guy is awfully naive. This also exposes the need for liberal arts in cultivating ones' mind in developing rational judgement. If all you spend your whole education on technology and technical fields you'll turn out as spergish as google guy.
mbillion 7y ago
The difference between a pasta company and (one of) the most powerful publicly traded technology companies is very significant.
HR did this
Dont fuck with HR
Emma_Watsons_Panties 7y ago
You clearly didn't read the memo nor any of the articles about the memo. Maybe you skimmed a few comments before deciding you were ready to bless the world with a few hundred words of irrelevant, pseudo-pseudo-intellectual nonsense (I use pseudo twice because nobody thought this was an intelligent comment except you).
You really think the internet would be interested in the memo at all if it was simply advocating for the 'not hiring or paying less' of women? You're playing checkers while everyone else is playing chess.
Equally hilarious is your belief that liberal arts degrees create well-rounded and rational individuals.
As the great Brennan Huff once said: Shush up for one second. Shut your mouth. Wait. Shut your mouth. You're just coming off stupid.
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Emma_Watsons_Panties 7y ago
At no point in my post did I allude to my own opinion on the subject either way, so you wouldn't have a clue. Your response simply serves to further highlight your poor comprehension of written material, your inability to think critically and your misunderstanding of social cues. Your comment, once again, has absolutely no relevance.
You might as well be looking at ink blots and shouting out the first association your brain makes with it. That's how you sound.
Sit the next few plays out, champ.
Edit: A 30 second look at your comment history proved my assumption - you mentioned terms like incel and MTGOW because this is the type of sub you spend most of your life in.
I gotta hand it to you, though. There's some gems in there:
Hahahahahahahaha. Pathetic.
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TaxFreeNFL 7y ago
Holy Shit, the signal seen around the world.
EpicLevelCheater 7y ago
Rule Zero violation. Banned.
w0ffen 7y ago
...and nothing of value was lost.
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BlackFire68 7y ago
The simple issue here is that a man wrote the article
celmxc 7y ago
but what if he identifies as a woman?
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NeoreactionSafe 7y ago
Translation:
TheRedThrowAwayPill 7y ago
Actually pair programming is a master & apprentice style approach that can do wonders for a junior dev.
Many guy programmers I know would freaking KILL to be a padwan to a coding Jedi.
Instead they had to slog it out by trial and error without exacting details from a pro.
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nninja 7y ago
You guys are still on this?? It's not complicated, don't bite the hand that feeds you. He posted his fuckin 10 page manifesto bashing the company, and questioning the competency and merit of a whole group of people, on the fuckin company message board. If you think that won't get you fired you're retarded. I would've done the same thing, regardless of what his points were or if he was right. He's the reason for this big nonsense with Google going on right now, he was a senior employee and Google has peer reviews for promotions - you think it's hard to later claim he has a bias towards certain people after?? Jesus use your brains.
NaturalSelect1on 7y ago
I really expected this to happen. These things unfortunately are a taboo in IT industry.
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DOWNVOTE_IF_BUTTMAD 7y ago
women really are desperate to be wage cucks
pabbseven 7y ago
Why google. What the fuck are you doing Jesus christ.
Luckyluke23 7y ago
now that you point this out... i REALLY feel bad for using chrome and the pixel
KarmaKill23 7y ago
You forgot the best part. His argument is validated by the very people looking to shut him down.
The following is the response email sent by the VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance, Danielle Brown:
Straight from the horse's mouth. Ms. Brown acknowledges that a core point of the manifesto is concern over whether or not people can speak their minds at Google and confirms that NO, views different from the prevailing culture will result in termination.
Draaly-Throwaway 7y ago
People telling someone to stop talking doesn't validate their view. The view must stand on its own.
KarmaKill23 7y ago
It was bad phrasing to say his argument is validated. Of course the entire paper is not validated.
However, as outlined in the TLDR bullet points, part of the reason this manifesto was written is because Google shames into silence anyone who disagrees with certain "sacred ideas", the one focused on here is their push to get Google to a 50-50 male-female workforce. It's right there in the title "Google’s Ideological Echo Chamber".
THAT (the notion that Google is a leftist echo chamber) is validated by the actions Google has taken against him.
aced 7y ago
I hope the google execs are only doing this because they fear the shitstorm of bad PR, rather than actually believing that men and women aren't biologically different...
M_Justice 7y ago
Yes, that's what it is. Calculated decision to take the risk of reprisal from the firing to keep the feminists and beta's happy, which was a greater fallout and risk for them. Apparently, some women employees did not go to work because they think the "memo" created a hostile work environment.
[deleted] 7y ago
I'm in the tech industry for years and I have yet to meet a female developer who's something more than average.
max_potential_ 7y ago
I disagree. They are pretty rare, but they exist.
Anecdotal example: my coworker was a beautiful Asian girl who was the best employee at our small company. She was an excellent problem solver, always organized, always on time, and was a great leader.
But hey, I'm not even graduated yet, so you probably have a more well-based perspective and likely have a much higher standard for "average".
Just sayin', there's women who make great engineers and men who make great aesthetic designers. It's not common, but it happens.
cherryCanSuckMyDick 7y ago
Youre sure? Im really not much more than a script kiddie myself, but I find it hard to believe. Youre sure youre not just deceiving yourself?
mbillion 7y ago
I will be completely objective here. But he is not fooling. I am a mathematician and a techie working primarily in what is about half development and half deployment.
I wont say I do not find any good female programmers, but they are definitely a dime a dozen. I am making no commentary about the biological imperative therein but industry wide you just do not see a lot of good female devs.
Ive consulted at some of the top workplaces for women, millenials, etc and you still do not see this large female developer contingency. Again, mine is an observational statement of fact, colored in no way.
Draaly-Throwaway 7y ago
Good for you. The best coder, as well as the best project manager I have ever worked with have been female. There is a reason anecdotes aren't taken very seriously in science.
mbillion 7y ago
project manager =/= developer.
Ive worked with plenty of good women in the workplace. My boss is a woman who's strategy and intuition has taken my career to new heights.
But she isnt a developer.
Project Manager would be more like one step above a Business Analyst and definitely not a developer or a STEM career path, although I have seen lots of STEM people go into project management, myself included
Draaly-Throwaway 7y ago
She was the head research professor of the floor I worked on. I wasn't sure how to call her (so I went the way I did because I know how much beurocratic bullshit she had to sift through), but you are right that project management isn't quite the same as a developer.
mbillion 7y ago
Is your work academic or what do you mean research professor? and this isnt an attack im curious
Draaly-Throwaway 7y ago
Yah. Doing a thesis at the time. I'm currently in the professional sector though.
mbillion 7y ago
So the one thing I would say is that anything based in or exposed highly to academics is going to have higher exposure to young, childless women. Again not a judgement, but industry detached from academics is a much different beast
What field? what sector? again just curious and chatting
Draaly-Throwaway 7y ago
Aerospace engineering. She was in her late 50s with 3 kids. The programmer was in her 20s though, but I think that's far more normal in the field than others
mbillion 7y ago
So aerospace is definitely academically heavy.
Thats cool though - do you do aero or space? LOL
Draaly-Throwaway 7y ago
Lol, what? Aerospace is very predominantly private sector. Even talking about the space side it is still so currently. The vast, vast majority of aerospace engineers go to work for private sector DOD contractors.
And I did research in "powered ascent control systems" but I guarantee it is more utilized in missile guidance than actual space due to the turns they wanted us to be capable of.
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wiseprogressivethink 7y ago
The act of stating undeniable facts is a fireable offense in the Current Year.
In fact, it's been that way for a long time.
DoesNotMatterAnymore 7y ago
The full doc: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf
Draaly-Throwaway 7y ago
Wow. That's got some shit formatting. Ima go read it now, just felt people need a reminder that proper formatting is paramount to the impression people have of technical papers.
Stech_ 7y ago
"Nature doesn't arrange itself so that everything it presents to us is in keeping with what we would like to be true politically." - Jordan Peterson
OneRedYear 7y ago
Nature isn't politically correct - me.
Seriously what a wordy fuck Peterson is. He should be more like Trump and speak in plain english.
Stech_ 7y ago
Well he isn't a University of Toronto Professor for nothing. And I think being good with words and taking serious time in articulating one's thoughts, like Peterson does, is good way to avoid unnecessary misunderstandings.
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DobroHobo 7y ago
Well... as much as I agree with the article title, apparently the reason he was fired was for sending it to something like 50,000 people. So yeah I kinda get that now
SkunkMonkey 7y ago
You had me up until you brought up Freedom of Speech. This has nothing to do with that since it only applies to the government. Once you pulled that out, you lost all credibility.
TrollsTellTheTruth 7y ago
Marissa Meyer was a VP at Google. It seems they like putting brainless whores in positions of responsibility.
Ipoopbabiez 7y ago
I kind of took Google's decision as not really being about the argument itself. The argument was reasonable and did make good points. What made Google fire him, however, was having the company (presumably unwillingly) represent a controversial stance. You cannot deny that discussing biological differences between men and women is bound to be controversial, and holding the stance that they are is not good for the company. As such, I would not get pissed off at Google, but more at society itself
DraugrMurderboss 7y ago
The biggest concern we should have is when all the technically smart people leave Google and the only people that are left are the ones who dogmatically pursue people who do not think correctly.
Keep in mind Google has all the information from whenever you use their products, including if you logged onto your email once, all associated traffic from that computer is also connected to the profile they have on you as a user.
[deleted] 7y ago
That is a problem with all social media and web 2.0 companies.
The problem is even worse with public cloud computing/services as who knows who really accesses your public cloud based servers. An SLA won't stop a compromised system admin from getting that data.
Rule is if you are a controversiall organization run your own systems with trusted personel dedicated to your cause or at least well paid and treated.
The-Peter-Principle 7y ago
The guy never cited academic papers to back up his claims, so the whole thing COULD be portrayed as "an unstable rant by an evil cis-patriarch".
"If he goes to this much length to make our female staff feel hurt and bullied just imagine what he's like when the spotlight is off him, to the chopping block with him post haste...."
Argumentation without evidence may dismissed without evidence. Which is what it seems google did.
raziusro 7y ago
He did, they got removed.
"The text of the post is reproduced in full below, with some minor formatting modifications. Two charts and several hyperlinks are also omitted."
[deleted] 7y ago
nah, larry summers, former president of harvard basically said the same things, with tons of academic proof of why, and he was crucified for it and forced to resign.
these people don't want logic or facts. logic and facts destroy their narrative. the average man crushes the average woman on the math SATs by an average of 30 points. instead of looking at "average" people (because google doesn't hire "average" people), and you switch to the top 1%, 0.1%, or 0.01% of math skill/aptitude, it becomes increasingly male to the point where hits hundreds of males to a single female. this is the case even in kindergarten.
studies and facts and logic don't matter to them. it is a shit test and this guy just failed.
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demoneyes905 7y ago
Is 30 points on the SAT even a statistically significant number? I wouldn't call anything by this margin "crushed"
FreddyFoFingers 7y ago
That's a good point, but fyi the difference is "statistically significant" but the amount by which it's different (30 points) is the effect size. It's up to human judgement to gauge effect sizes as significant or not, but there's no statistical test.
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harsha_hs 7y ago
Wow, what an article. This is gem of a work and Google should be ashamed to not have such an employee
wyng369 7y ago
I dont see any difference between my boobs and girls boobs. ( am an obese man)
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sokratesz 7y ago
I can't believe I'm agreeing (mostly) with a TRP post.
Entrefut 7y ago
Dude this is incredible. Opened up Reddit for a quick casual read through the news and found this, thank you so much. There are a lot of viewpoints and ideas that I haven't thought about before and I'm very grateful you brought them to my attention.
RedPillWizard 7y ago
He apparently may have a lawsuit here: https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/08/07/it-may-be-illegal-for-google-to-punish-engineer-over-anti-diversity-memo-commentary.html
Nergaal 7y ago
First rule of TRP: never talk about TRP
Second rule of TRP: never EVER talk about TRP
bretw 7y ago
lol yeah dude, thats the part of his memo he was fired for /s
indecencies 7y ago
So then what part would you say he was fired for, Mr Never Posted in TRP Before?
bretw 7y ago
Gee I don't know, probably literally any part that was actually controversial is all
indecencies 7y ago
Oh, so he got fired just because he held controversial opinions... not radical ones or crazy ones, just controversial ones... Lmao.
bretw 7y ago
wow bud. all im saying is it certainly wasnt for a statement literally noone disagreed with. but you know, whatever narrative you wanna believe buddy
Smelle 7y ago
Facts don't care about your feels, but get paid first.
idontevenarse 7y ago
He got fired because he made a public statement that reflects directly on Google. Not because of what's in there.
DeadJacuzzi 7y ago
It was a memo within the company that got out. Not a public statement.
mbillion 7y ago
Exactly!!!! Bingo Yahtzee. It has nothing to do with whether it was complete garbage or factually backed up. He publicly authored something that is an affront to googles message.
It doesnt matter if its right - if it opens the company up to criticism, if it even has a whiff of losing stock value, it is the HR departments and the boards responsibility to fire him.
It wasnt a vacuum, this was pointed, and he martyred himself
Method007 7y ago
It's a tough one but considering all the publicity, this was likely the best business decision on behalf of Google. It seems like the lesser of evils and that letter really isn't consistent with their own culture. I agree with most of what he said in the letter and I also agree with the move to term the guy.
blackedoutfast 7y ago
good lesson for everyone who takes everything literally and doesn't understand powertalk. the same people constantly talking about acceptance of different viewpoints and the importance of a diversity of ideas are the same people who will want to crucify you if you actually have a different viewpoint. and it doesn't matter how logically sound it is or how many footnotes and citations you use to support your argument. you are not allowed to disagree with SJW dogma.
but there's also a good side. there are guys out the who are realizing they aren't completely alone in thinking these thoughts. guys who have tried to be liberal and accepting who read this "racist screed" and realized the author actually had some good points. and then they saw the reaction to it. some of those guys might start to wake up. now everyone knows that no matter what they say, you can't fix the system by playing by the official rules. if they want a world ruled by tribalism and identity politics, so be it.
when you're at work, walking through through hallways filled with "diversity" and underqualified quota fillers, make sure to give a silent head nod to your fellow brothers. the guys who are there because they are actually good at their job, not because of whats between their legs or the color of their skin. make sure to support those guys whenever you can. give them good reviews. watch their 6. find the guys who get it and put them in positions of actual power. push the quota hires and token women toward roles with fancy titles but no influence.
darthxaim 7y ago
Sounds like something Jordan Peterson might say.
commander_zoidberg 7y ago
I can't believe Jordan Peterson hasn't been fired from his position by now.
MP-The-Law 7y ago
I thought the same thing, I'd bet money he listens to Jordan Peterson/Dave Rubin
phamousTRP 7y ago
He does, at the end of his Jordan Peterson interview, James says he's been a huge fan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU
wickedogg 7y ago
Dr. Damore: We should make decisions based on facts and evidence instead of condemning opinions based on our own preconceived ideas, especially in regard to refusing to listen to alternate views on gender bias.
Google: You're fired.
gattaca_ 7y ago
Google is being accused of extreme gender discrimination by the U.S. Labor department.
Not firing the employee could provide support for this discrimination case and may be expensive (e.g. half their highly paid work force suing and/or getting a raise).
Termination is the safer bet.
The downsides (massive lawsuit, alienating employees) far outweigh any benefits of letting him stay.
They're just covering their ass and spinning it as a gender equality decision.
TL;DR
M_Justice 7y ago
Very true. That's where I came out on this as well. He sues, get's a couple million, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the PR nightmare and other litigation exposure they already have.
lala_xyyz 7y ago
Google is a company with a political agenda. Julian Assange wrote an interesting piece on it. In short, Google, Facebook and Twitter are in cahoots with the State Department, intelligence agencies and the feminist/globalist/open borders crowd. Never trust them, and never expose yourself to them. But it's pointless to ignore them since they are so pervasive, and provide services not replicable elsewhere - just make sure you minimize your exposure.
herbw 7y ago
Quoting Mark Twain immortal words: "If you want to stay out of trouble in your lifetime, NEVER speak the whole truth in public."
Still true for the last 3 centuries.
MoltenSlag 7y ago
In a world where men and women occupy identical jobs with identical success, they in turn have to be identical. I, for one, prefer a world where men and women are allowed to be different...
[deleted] 7y ago
The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy.
But when you're inside, what do you see?
Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters.
The very minds of the people we are trying to save.
But until we do, these people are a part of that system...
...and that makes them our enemy.
You have to understand...
...most of these people are not ready to be unplugged.
And many of them are so inert...
...so hopelessly dependent on the system...
...that they will fight to protect it.
Patriarchysaurus 7y ago
Now I'm imagining this guy looking up from his laptop and seeing all of his coworkers at Google HQ morphing into Agent Smiths.
They do battle, but there are simply too many Smiths to fight!
Somewhere a telephone rings out, the operator is trying to pull him out, back to the objective laws of the "real" machine world!
Instead, he is predictably surrounded (his "free redpill" manifesto seemed to get their attention) and pummelled into raspberry jam by a wave of agents before reaching the link. In his dying breath he sputters--"Guess I'm not the One after all", just before a prompt deletion from the system.
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notthegreatestcatch 7y ago
More important is that they based the movie off of a very postmodernist philosophy text called simuli and simulacra and simulation which they interpreted completely wrong, according to the author. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/24/opinion/editorial-observer-a-french-philosopher-talks-back-to-hollywood-and-the-matrix.html?pagewanted=all
PM_ME_UR_TECHNO_GRRL 7y ago
I totally missed that! Holy shit lmfao
SkorchZang 7y ago
Our enemy has a thing for stating or showing exactly what they're doing to you or going to do, in plain sight. You see this time and time again.
It's some kind spiritual principle with them, almost as if they're covering their ass for the inevitable:
God: "You scum. Mess with my people? Want to get annihilated or what? Because that's how you get annihilated."
Satan: "Nooo, man, look - I'm telling them exactly what I'll do and I do it. Fair and square. It's their own choice not to see it, honest! Look at those idiots, I'm not messing with them, they're messing with themselves out of their own free will."
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[deleted] 7y ago
Back then they weren't transgender though. They were called the Wachowski brothers.
BlairResignationJam_ 7y ago
They were always transgender dude, even if they never said so right away. Just like being gay; you're gay long before you "come out" and say so
Sorry but your ideology is based on two transgender womens ideas, and is propagated primarily through the inventions and devices of liberal "beta" men. And you have made them very rich! Hahaha
[deleted] 7y ago
By that logic Caitlyn/Bruce Jenner was a woman the whole time and his decathlon world record will forever be unbroken.
[deleted] 7y ago
Nope, it's based on Plato. (bummer eh?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave
Ancient Matrix basically.
"Plato has Socrates describe a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall from objects passing in front of a fire behind them, and give names to these shadows. The shadows are the prisoners' reality. Socrates explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall are not reality at all, for he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the manufactured reality that is the shadows seen by the prisoners. The inmates of this place do not even desire to leave their prison; for they know no better life. The prisoners manage to break their bonds one day, and discover that their reality was not what they thought it was. They discovered the sun, which Plato uses as an analogy for the fire that man cannot see behind. Like the fire that cast light on the walls of the cave, the human condition is forever bound to the impressions that are received through the senses. Even if these interpretations (or, in Kantian terminology, intuitions) are an absurd misrepresentation of reality, we cannot somehow break free from the bonds of our human condition - we cannot free ourselves from phenomenal state just as the prisoners could not free themselves from their chains. If, however, we were to miraculously escape our bondage, we would find a world that we could not understand - the sun is incomprehensible for someone who has never seen it. In other words, we would encounter another "realm", a place incomprehensible because, theoretically, it is the source of a higher reality than the one we have always known; it is the realm of pure Form, pure fact."
Xetios 7y ago
They changed their genders? Seriously?
edit: just looked it up. Didn’t know that. Surprising.
[deleted] 7y ago
Yeah, some people who can vote weren't even born when the 1st Matrix movie came out - makes me feel old.
caP1taL1sm 7y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebXFmWbPtaQ
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Sepean 7y ago
There are no economists who take the "gender pay gap" seriously. There are well-documented statistical reasons for most of the difference, and there is no reason to assume that the remaining unexplained difference (3% iirc) has anything to do with sexism - it just means that economists don't have the data to say what that the reason for that difference is.
It's also just common sense that there isn't a gender pay gap. If women really did the same work as men for only 77% of the pay, we'd see companies hiring only women and easily outcompeting the companies that hired men.
123Volvos 7y ago
It's absolutely bananas to me that someone will quote this statistic because they they feel is 100% supporting their conviction and use it to justify downright cartoonish policies.
I just ask them "if a woman can get the same work done for 23% less cost, why would you not hire only women in your workforce?" with a response of "Because they are discriminating against women"
Purely ideological.
StillNotaWizardYet 7y ago
This article has NOTHING to do with a gender pay gap... It has everything to do with women being put in positions that they inherently should not be in just to try and balance out the "there are no women in tech" scheme.
axxxman 7y ago
This is hogwash and totally contrary to what the memo said. Of course a lot of women belong in tech, but we should't be surprised that there is not equal representation of the genders.
[deleted] 7y ago
Diversity in retail made my life so much harder. WOC after WOC would come one board and then not want to learn, not want to discipline their people, not want to work the hours. Most of them didn't last 18 months. And they wouldn't even own the initiatives that were tied to their area.
123Volvos 7y ago
Women being put into those positions has a lot to do with the increase in real income for the women.
StillNotaWizardYet 7y ago
Ok... your point?
The article itself is not written to address this. It is not a research piece on wage gap therefore the comment on pay-gap should not even be here.
This is a well written and well thought-out research piece that probably took weeks if not months to create. This sentence sums up the piece best:
Ahahaha__10 7y ago
It does actually, women in higher positions is very related to gender pay gap because higher positions = more money = less pay gap. Also, more women in higher positions = equality = less pay gap.
StillNotaWizardYet 7y ago
It doesn't actually. The article is about Googles cultural agenda to appeal to the left. Not to discuss the fucking wage myth. Ipsofacto, you are incorrect to say that this research piece is about wage gap.
Ahahaha__10 7y ago
Well those two things are very tied together and if you can't see that you're just being difficult.
TheBrokenRuler 7y ago
I tried to explain to a cuck that pay gap was a fucking myth. Despite sound arguments, l I would hear back was "you're a Nazi for disbelieving in it". Facts are irrelevant now; only presumed victims and their feelings get a chance to speak
[deleted] 7y ago
It's a little misleading to say that, because the debate regarding the remaining gap has had many economists argue discrimination and many argue natural/inherent human nature.
[deleted] 7y ago
It's important to note:
Most posts on Reddit at the moment are condemning Google for silencing the voice of dissent which is surprising and also encouraging.
I for one was expecting a lot of pitchfork talk.
En-Zu 7y ago
It is reddit haha. This place is pretty male and hence has a bias toward free speech.
wotinbutthole 7y ago
I got a lot of backlash on my post.
_whatcanbe 7y ago
I posted barely days ago that I feared he would lose his job... And they acted faster than I had expected. His article was very logical and scientific, and he did not criticise or slander anyone. To be fired over something like this just highlights the ridiculousness of our current society.
redpillbanana 7y ago
Lesson learned: hire enough feminists/SJWs and they will hold your company hostage. Look at the saga at Github for an example.
Market principle: companies that deny reality will always lose to companies that embrace it.
For an example of a company that embraces reality, look at Protein World's response when they were attacked by fat-acceptance feminists: http://notyourgoodfatty.com/the-10-best-tweets-from-protein-world/
They refused to back down to the feminist attacks and they ended up with increased business and an enthusiastic fanbase.
Edit for archive link: https://archive.fo/Dvb6X
hot_rats_ 7y ago
Never heard of them but I am definitely buying some protein from them now.
TangoZulu 7y ago
Difference here is that Protien World's target audience is by definition people that exercise so their consumers are more likely to fall on the opposite side of the fence as the fat-acceptance movement. Google has much more to lose by pissing off women and SJW's than Protien World had to lose by pissing off fatties.
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Praecipuus 7y ago
The Protein World thing can really not be taken as an example, since the reason they grew their sales has to do with the fact that the people who were attacking them would have never bought supplements or hit the gym in the first place. Imagine buzzfeed would get uncucked for a month, as an example, and picture where their revenue would go. Companies pander to their consumer targets.
It's different with Google though. They have built a huge monopoly, and are supported by corrupt governments.
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[deleted] 7y ago
Amazon is probably the last major Internet business that's not under the control of SJWs. But they're working on it.
Draaly-Throwaway 7y ago
I realy don't think google is loosing to much of anyone right now
gELSK 7y ago
// , Low testosterone men are often highly intelligent.
afkb39sdfb 7y ago
Proton Mail
Free, based in Switzerland and protected by Swiss privacy laws.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_privacy_law#Switzerland
Also, GOOGLE TRACKS AND SAVES EVERYTHING YOU DO on your google account. Maps location history, device info, web & app activity, voice & audio activity, YouTube activity. Delete it and turn it off. https://myaccount.google.com/activitycontrols
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/google-history-search-tracking-data-how-to-delete
(Reposted)
0xdada 7y ago
Cue the orgy of virtue signalling from the press.
They are falling over themselves to cowtow. To have a living breathing straw man is so rare. I think some of them may faint.
Sotokun3000 7y ago
Both articles on wired and Bloomberg are interesting reads, especially the interpretations by several parties.
Interesting to see that there is an acknowledgement of "free speech" awkwardness and what is allowed and what not.
The battle of free speech and "culture" within tech companies.
Hamster overdrive
wanderer779 7y ago
just started reading the article on bloomberg. about a paragraph in and can already tell they have no intention of giving this guy a fair shake.
The google statement reminds me of the statements from Iraqi officials during the early days of the war when their army was obviously getting trounced and they kept saying they were winning.
"In her initial response to the memo, Brown, who joined from Intel Corp. in June, suggested that Google was open to all hosting “difficult political views,” including those in the memo. However, she left open the possibility that Google could penalize the engineer for violating company policies. “But that discourse needs to work alongside the principles of equal employment found in our Code of Conduct, policies, and anti-discrimination laws,” she wrote."
In other words, you can say anything you want, as long as you agree with us.
Wh1te_Cr0w 7y ago
The Atlantic has a stunning example of what total, unmitigated disconnect with reality looks like
[deleted] 7y ago
The replies you’ve received shows how cucked western men are. “Companies are free to do what they want”... statements like these are exactly why feminism has such an entrenched foothold in society and culture. It’s cucks like them that allow the left to win the culture wars for 40 years while they go on and on about muh principles and other bullshit. It’s not even that you shouldn’t be principled, it’s these myopic lazy libertarian statements like “companies should be allowed to do what they want” that they miss the big picture... you can disagree with and combat what these companies are doing while still agreeing they should be free to dictate their own corporate culture to their employees.
Google prides itself on openness and equality, it’s ridiculous that they can say that and then fire someone for wrongthink. There is something very wrong about what they’re doing and they need to be called out. I normally wouldn’t care but Google has enormous influence over how the masses think.
Nobody is saying that you have to put your name out there, but you can support the ones fighting against this pervasive post modernist, cultural marxist bullshit that has invaded Silicon Valley. Even something as simple as following Jordan B Peterson on twitter or YouTube helps. Let’s say you don’t even want to do that. Then speak about issues like this anonymously whenever you can, especially in forums like TRP. Put a stop to this myopic cuckservative “muh principles” crap where you continue to cede territory to blue haired genderfuck feminists who are the reason why TRP needs to exist.
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quietthomas 7y ago
Cultural Marxism was The Frankfurt School's critique of The Culture Industry. It was an early critique of mainstream media and neo-liberalism. Adorno had things like this to say:
Meanwhile Marcuse warned everyone that "progressive politics" could also become repressive and regressive in it's own ways:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al3aOuqpVbs
...and The Birmingham School warned that culture was drifting away from local culture. Due to the Massification of culture in the form of the globalization of media + tabloid journalism.
This was a pre-internet critique of mainstream media and neo-liberalism, and ended around the time media became more democratized in the 80s, when the internet began to be foreshadowed with Zines, DIY culture, and public radio/TV. That's when the tail end of the Birmingham School declared the need to critique mass media to be kind of over because everyone could talk to everyone.
....of course, the right wing conspiracy theorists will say it's SJWs and a jewish plot that runs the media... but it was actually critiquing the media.
[deleted] 7y ago
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TaxFreeNFL 7y ago
Funny that you picked 13. He wrote 13 sentences broken ino three paragraphs. Bust out that 'get out of thinking free' card because you see one word. Fucking hell,
Sotokun3000 7y ago
My argument is simple.
It's a paradox to promote LGBT and racial openness and on the other hand condemn criticism of those. Openness should allow criticism.
It's a paradox to say "people should be allowed to have whatever sex orientation they want and be allowed to talk openly about it and have the right to be offended and vocal about it if criticised
But there is no right to be offended if the source of offence is discrimination in favour of minorities
[deleted] 7y ago
I agree and it kills me inside that these hypocrisies exists yet these presumably smart people on the left doesn’t see it. They always have excuses, eg straight white males are historically and institutionally privileged so it’s okay to marginalize their opinions. No it’s not okay. That’s racism, something they purport to be against.
TunedtoPerfection 7y ago
SJW have long proven you can't be racist against the source all that is evil, "a white male."
Newreddawn 7y ago
It's similar "logic" to why it's impossible to be racist against white people. You can break the logical rules if it's for the purpose of tearing down a power structure. What is really going on is standard hypocrisy. People never wanted justice, they just want to shift the balance of power. Openness and diversity are key words signaling a desire to shift power to people who aren't straight white men. So there was never any real expectation of diversity of opinion. Those announcements were a tongue in cheek way of saying there's a new sheriff in town and xir is looking to go after people with traditional values.
OneRedYear 7y ago
The sooner you learn that should is a word of the weak the better and clearer your thinking will be. Anytime you use should, you are dreaming and not in reality. I should have my cock smoked by super models. See how that works?
Red_Faust 7y ago
This is a super important bit of wisdom, confined here deep within a thread. This applies to all areas of life.
"Should" doesn't belong in reality. Less fantasizing, more seeing reality as it is.
Sotokun3000 7y ago
You should if your cock is big.
Openness "should" allow criticism since the term implies open views thus dialogue.
Let's not masturbate with words here dude
OneRedYear 7y ago
Too late, you stroked back.
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IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
There has never been a promise of free speech within a company. There is no First Amendment right to protect you from retribution by and employer. It has always been that way.
RedPillWizard 7y ago
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/08/07/it-may-be-illegal-for-google-to-punish-engineer-over-anti-diversity-memo-commentary.html
Sotokun3000 7y ago
But there is a culture of wanting all voices to be heard and not condemning minority views.
I agree maybe he can't win a case In a lawsuit but->
That's why this case is interesting because it shows selection bias on what is considered an acceptable view.
It shows that in reality a company's culture of openness and inclusion can fall into paradoxical behaviour.
It is one thing to say that a company does not allow different views, and another to say that it values all views as equal but some are more equal than others
tobasoft 7y ago
he can and will absolutely win a wrongful termination suit.
source: my boss is a workplace law specialist lawyer
IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
No there is not. Corporate culture is absolutely not a place to share controversial political views. It never has been. You are simply wrong about that.
Rogankenzie1395 7y ago
Google did realease a statement saying they want to hear all voices, thus making them liars.
BullshittingNonsense 7y ago
How is this even controversial?
IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
Well there is a huge controversy about it currently, so by the very definition of the word it is controversial.
I don't think we should get into the debate itself here, since this conversation focuses specifically on whether corporations encourage debate on controversial non-workplace related topics or not.
Sotokun3000 7y ago
Man it's a statements game. I agree that reality is different but it's the companies themselves that advertise how they value diversity and openness in expression.
Just pick up any company marketing booklet.
[deleted] 7y ago
When they say "diversity" they mean less whites, it has nothing to do with diversity of opinion.
IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
Listen, if your claim is that it is common for companies to publicly say in "marketing booklets" that they foster environments of free speech and expression of minority views, then it should be extremely easy for you to go onto some company websites (because let's be honest nobody publishes "marketing booklets" any longer) and find examples of what you're claiming.
This is exactly the type of situation where you need to provide a citation for what you're claiming. Since you seem to think that it is so common, that should be easy for you to do. My bet is that you cannot find even one single example of where a company addresses the issue of free speech in the workplace. Not even one.
cazbot 7y ago
He's not wrong, but he did a bad job with his citations. Here are better examples.
https://www.google.com/diversity/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/diversity/ https://www.apple.com/diversity/
Really just search for any tech company's name and "diversity" and you'll find a flashy page advertising how much they value not only diverse people but diverse opinions.
wanderer779 7y ago
I don't read marketing booklets but the leaders of these companies have definitely made statements that they encourage diversity of opinion.
Everyone who disagrees with them knows this is BS, of course. But they do say it.
Sotokun3000 7y ago
Here you go : http://www.ucla.edu/about/mission-and-values
Remember the recent riots against trump and milo yanopoulos?
" We value open access to information, free and lively debate conducted with mutual respect for individuals, and freedom from intolerance. "
IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
Oh come on. That is from a pubically funded university, not a corporation. Is that really the best you can do?
Sotokun3000 7y ago
It's institutions acting different to their public marketing efforts that im pointing .
Another example:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/careers/why-join-us/values
Remember Recent pay gap debate: "We respect all our colleagues, whoever they are. We’re honest, direct and always courteous. We challenge others’ ideas but we respect decisions once made. We are ambassadors for our organisation; we speak out if something is not right and deal with it within the BBC."
SovereignSoul76 7y ago
...stop wasting your time. This guy is obviously not understanding you or just fucking with you.
IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
The BBC is a publicly-funded organization in the U.K. It is the opposite of a corporation. Try anything from the S&P500. Hell, anything that trades on the stock market even.
wickedogg 7y ago
That isn't totally true. If you make sure to couch your statements in regard to union membership, then you are protected. If Dr. Damore had said "Google employees should form a labor union in order to properly negotiate a contract that takes into account differences between the genders, because..." and then wrote the rest of the memo, he would have been protected.
IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
If he's at-will employment, he can be fired and Google need not provide a reason. All of this is academic at that point.
wickedogg 7y ago
Is this a reply to my comment?
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max_peenor 7y ago
Well, except is this speech? It was an unpublished paper, presumably meant for his superiors. If he was fired for that, this reeks of whistleblower retaliation. Which takes me back to what I said before--they probably vested all his options and RSUs, and then traded an NDA for a nice package. I doubt he was curled up in a ball crying it out over the weekend.
IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
The entire point of "at will employment" is that employers do not have to provide a reason for termination. They can if they want to, but it is not required.
If they chose the fire this guy and did not provide a reason, the onus would be on him to prove that he was fired because of this email. That becomes difficult because if there are any other problems with his employment.
max_peenor 7y ago
Except litigation is expensive, even if you win and you'll almost never recover costs from an ex-employee, particularly if they made no money on you in the first place. Legal calculation is neither ethical or moral; it is entirely financial.
Buutttt... There is one place where "at will" never matters. If the employer broke whistleblower laws, they are fucked.
IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
It is the employee recovering costs from the corporation....
max_peenor 7y ago
If the corporation bows, which it does more than most people realize, sure. However, twice in my entire career we drew a line in the sand and took it to completion. Sometimes you have to send a message and sending a message costs money.
IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
That comment is so vague it is impossible to understand.
max_peenor 7y ago
Jesus.
If the company reaches a mutually acceptable settlement to the pending case such that the case is discharged and all parties are satisfied in compensation, considerations and agreements for future behavior.
Companies will often reach settlement with plaintiffs so as to terminate the action. Generally, the more likely the plaintiff is to win money, the high settlement to which they will agree. It is a financial decision.
We saw the case through court, judgment and appeals. It was very expensive but we decided it to be the best course of action for the company.
If you gain a reputation for capitulating to all demands, people will demand more from you. If you make examples out of weak claims, then people will think twice before attempting to make one.
Next time I'm going to bill you by the hour.
IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
It turns out I could understand the point you were trying to make. It just isn't very insightful or interesting.
IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
Corporate culture has always been about the work. You show up, you work, you go home. It is common knowledge that if you bring up religion, politics, or sex you are playing with fire and risk termination. It has never been a place for free speech. There is no "battle for free speech" in the corporate workspace.
If you go to work and send out an email about controversial political / societal issues, you can expect to hear from HR and may lose your job. That's the way it has always been. Corporate email is not a platform you are entitled to use for spreading your personal views on non-work related topics.
jm51 7y ago
The guy must have already known that.
My guess is that he was becoming increasingly unhappy with the way things were going and had a Jerry Maguire moment.
Either that or he did it as a career boosting move.
Either way, I think he'll come out of this ok.
wanderer779 7y ago
the difference here is that I'd imagine you can circulate all the political memos you want as long as the higher ups agree with you. If this guy would have circulated a memo arguing the other side of this issue nothing would have happened to him.
Mudpielol 7y ago
how is it about the work when they force feed you unconscious bias training?
IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
That's a totally different topic and corporations promoting free-speech with in their workplace.
Mudpielol 7y ago
Didn't say anything about free speech. I just think it's not all about the work per se, it's also about whatever bullshit they feel like you need to be force fed. I find it very similar with communist propaganda. Granted, as long as it's on company time, I'll do whatever useless training as long as it's not illegal.
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Sotokun3000 7y ago
Do you read what I'm typing?
I just argue that what happens in reality is different to what is stated publicly in company marketing efforts.
That's all there is to it. Pointing this fact, nothing more nothing less.
IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
Where in "company marketing efforts" does it say that you are free to use corporate email to discuss controversial political and societal issues without fear of retribution?
Sotokun3000 7y ago
Do you work alone or at a company? In many big companies you are encouraged to discuss issues for example racial discrimination etc.
There are even clubs set up for this within the companies, LGBT clubs etc. All have political content. Open discussions are encouraged.
Therefore I point out the discrimination in allowed political content which is contrarian to the marketing efforts.
I'm off this debate as it may be a waste of my time
IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
You are quitting this debate because you claimed corporations frequently publish marketing materials that encourage or support free speech but then you failed to find even a single example of this.
You are quitting because you were wrong. The first step towards becoming a reasonable human being is being able to admit when you're wrong. Give it a shot.
Sotokun3000 7y ago
Don't be a troll mate it's bad for your health.
I attached another link on one of your comments above.
Have a good day
IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
I am challenging you to provide a source for a dubious claim. That is the opposite of trolling.
So far you've tried to pawn off a public university in the British broadcasting company as "corporations". since you don't seem to know what a corporation is, just pick any one of the thousands of companies that is publicly traded on the NASDAQ or Dow Jones stock exchanges.
Sotokun3000 7y ago
Lol man quite persistant: there you go, another example that discussions other than work related are encouraged in the work environment.
https://www.home.barclays/about-barclays/diversity-and-inclusion/LGBT.html
" Imagine being worried that people will judge you simply because of the person you love, or the gender you identify with. I can’t imagine not being able to come into the office and talk about what I did on the weekend. "
IdRatherBeTweeting 7y ago
That statement is about how the company doesn't discriminate against LGBTQ employees. It says nothing at all about free-speech in the workplace. Try again.
OneRedYear 7y ago
You can say what you like, others can respond as they like. That's as free as the world is ever going to get. If you'd like to say as you will and those who disagree get to do nothing, become a dictator.
[deleted] 7y ago
I saw this this morning when I got up at 2:30 am.
There is nothing objectionable about the memo. It's well reasoned and rational and does a good job of avoiding biases.
The video that accompanied the article called this memo "insidious" and bigoted and a lot of other nasty stuff.
I had always thought Google was a pretty okay company, but if this man who wrote this memo, as well thought out and reasoned as it is, is fired because of it then I really don't think this country has any hope left.
We shouldn't be asking our politicians about email servers and their connections with Russia. We should be questioning them on when they plan to start the next civil war. How many Americans they hope to butcher and whether they will have Guantanamo style torture camps or just the run of the mill death camps.
Because when two sides are so implacably at odds with each other and can't see eye to eye on anything and also heavily armed then it's just a matter of time.
And it's not like we haven't already done this once before.
Twice if you count the American Revolution.
Politicians are capitalizing on the division for their own ends and leading us farther apart. We should be pointing out that this is the direction they are taking us. Maybe if they are forced to admit it before the fighting starts we might just avoid it.
Jimmy_Big_Nuts 7y ago
He may have been fired from a cushy job, but this was a truth nuke and very fair and balanced - even soft.
It's been tragic watching countless eminent scientists (all men) get tarred and feathered for saying or doing something true that upsets the extreme left-wing PC agenda.
I know TRP isn't a political party, it's about sexual strategy, but that initial red pill I found here sent me on a long journey of red pills - and that is what this guy just served the world. A very well argued, factually backed, concise, clear and articulate redpill rebuttal of the bluepill bullshit - lies - that have completely infected the mainstream for decades.
He is now a heretic, a blasphemer, and it will impact his career. But this is a civilisational threat we face. Feminism isn't just bad for the 80% of men that aren't chad, it will be the death of western civilisation, and there are barbarians knocking at the gate for when we collapse from within.
This guy is a hero.
OneInAZillion 7y ago
Here's The Guardian's title and lead heading on the article:
Title:
Heading:
Just LOL. What an absolute liberal shit-hole the UK is.
Fedor_Gavnyukov 7y ago
the UK is a shithole so who cares what they write
LadyXon 7y ago
It's run by women what you expect?
YiffMeAssange 7y ago
Here is a copy of the “manifesto” with his sources and graphs.
Royalwanker 7y ago
Is there a way of downloading this. Very interesting. Edit: found one in comments. Thanks.
perplexedm 7y ago
^^ The original doc is important as gizmodo, vice, motherboard, etc. removed citations and graphics from it.
dr_warlock 7y ago
"I removed your proof therefor you're a butthurt loser."
[deleted] 7y ago
Lying by omission, pretty much expected.
hot_rats_ 7y ago
While I wouldn't put it past them to do such a thing intentionally, at least on that host I can't click on any of what appear to be links to examine the sources.
Edit: Turns out you have to click the little "Original Document PDF" link on the sidebar to get this. Malice or ignorance, either is possible, but that's a dumb way to host a document where the sources are extremely important.
Kinbaku_enthusiast 7y ago
Doesn't really matter whether it's malice or ignorance, the result is the same, but judging from how they generally deal with bringing this to their attention (like how this guy was dealt with for bringing some things to the attention of his coworkers), it shows that it's more malice than ignorance.
hot_rats_ 7y ago
Well it's Google's prerogative to can him no matter what he said. That's a risk you take any time you open your mouth at a company. Well written as it is he had to know what the result would be. I'm just saying whoever chose that site as the host made it easy to omit the links.
caP1taL1sm 7y ago
Wait but those blue links imply that there is an actual hyperlink there -- anyway to get access to those links?
Starter91 7y ago
Silicon valley is mentally ill, what else is new?
gELSK 7y ago
// , I live in Silicon Valley, and I can attest to this.
Even the conservative, libertarian sorts are especially shrill and disconnected from reality.
Edit: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-04-19/silicon-valley-s-400-juicer-may-be-feeling-the-squeeze
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colovick 7y ago
They keep creating economic bubbles because a handful of them always manage to convince businesses that things are worth more than they really are
wickedogg 7y ago
That's only possible because it is so easy for businesses to convince people that things are worth more than they really are
OneRedYear 7y ago
Your version of the truth doesn't matter at work. The company line does. Think as you like, behave as others.
JoseJimeniz 7y ago
This. He was fired because his valid, well-reasoned, sourced, essay that he only shared privately with select colleagues, got out - and it was embarrassing to the company.
It's not what he intended. He didn't do anything wrong. And Google would like to do the right thing all the time but they can't. They would be tied up with for months when there are more important things they can be doing.
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[deleted] 7y ago
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WhereIsTheEvidence1 7y ago
It's funny that he defines engineering as " all about cooperation, collaboration, and empathy for both your colleagues and your customers." Immediately after a paper comes out suggesting these are qualities found in women more than men, and engineers are notoriously known as one of the least social students which would suggest they lack the ability to collaborate and to operate particularly well.
In addition, he says he's not a sociologist/psychologist and then describes women as such to help his point. I only bothered to skim read the first half and there are already problems with it, a lot of the points he makes are set up like this without any sources and to help him push an agenda.
M_Justice 7y ago
A true "brave new world" and dystopic future (or present) where trying to insist there are biological difference between men and women is a crime. A future where all gender differences are genetically modified so we have transgender humans who can only procreate in a controlled laboratory setting to make sure the hormonal output and brain development progresses in a gender neutral fashion
read_if_gay_ 7y ago
That legitimately sounds worse than Huxley's Brave New World
LeJacquelope 7y ago
Y'all are thinking about this the wrong way. Ironically such a world would eliminate the concept of male disposability. And female privilege, too. Plus there would be no way to accuse men of "male privilege" either.
End result: fewer men would die.
On a side note this dude was spouting off-topic nonsense in a company environment on company property where he should have instead been focusing on being an engineer or whatever work he was doing. Company property, company rules, they can fire whoever they want for (almost) any reason. At-will employment and all that. Even the right wing National Review admits that much. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450272/neutral-position-google-story-isnt-neutral-all
Also remember that Neal Boortz advocated that businesses should fire Obama voters back in 2010. Was he wrong, too?
tootzwe 7y ago
That's some black mirror shit
Flail_of_the_Lord 7y ago
If you think that a company firing people who make it look bad hasn't been an integral part of western capitalist culture since it began, you've probably never had an actual job.
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[deleted] 7y ago
While you're correct, I think he was making a broader point about it being important not to surrender language ground
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[deleted] 7y ago
Again that's fair but I get the impression he's suggesting the use of sex as it's much more specific
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Punchpplay 7y ago
Think as you like but support the death of the Red Pill ..... no thanks
OneRedYear 7y ago
I need to pay my bills more than I need everyone to know the red pill is the TRUTH (TM).
bigfatjew9_11 7y ago
Use protonmail.com for secure email and use for for browsing the internet.
[deleted] 7y ago
To add to his memo, a exerp from a Dr. Jordan Peterson lecture: Basically, he explains that fewer women in powerful positions (or eve ln stem in general) aren't absent because of some unseen cultural bias, but because those positions require a massive amount of investment of time and energy to achieve and maintain. The real question, he says, is how are there a select handful of men so insane, they're willing to work 80 hour work weeks? And when we say 80 hour work weeks, we don't mean working for 2 hours a day, followed by coffee breaks, then a meeting or two, lunch, Facebook break then another hour of work, we mean 15.5 hours a day of hard, focused, massively productive work.
Men have created this level of work ethic due to competition. Competition created and driven essentially by high testosterone levels and ambition. Women, by and large aren't interested in this competition due to obvious biological differences; namely lower testosterone levels.
biggerbetterjobs 7y ago
Also the natural male role to act as a patriarch and provide for one's family. It feels good for men to do this the same way it feels good for the average woman to hold and nurse a newborn baby.
[deleted] 7y ago
Right. You need only relate our behaviours to tribal life. We've evolved to be effective at a few simple tasks for even simpler reasons.
TheOriginalWasBetter 7y ago
I can see the headlines now. "Google Developer accuses women of being less able to handle stress and more likely to take vacation days, stresses out female coworkers causing them to take a vacation day".
ellen_pao 7y ago
He does not have a phd. Nor is he a senior developer
spradlig 7y ago
He's an entitled douchebag. He'll be snapped up by some company with right-wing leadership. He'll do just fine.
Everyone's entitled to their opinions, even if many of them are pseudo-scientific, but if you write them in a manifesto and send it to large numbers of people who work for your company, there may be consequences.
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JackGetsIt 7y ago
I think this debacle demonstrates once and for all that this has nothing to do with misunderstandings of facts. This has everything to do with ideology and power. I read everyword of that paper and it was fact based, respectful. It was the farthest thing from sexism or misogyny and he was still fired.
Remember when talking to strangers, co-workers, friends and family even if you present a redpill argument eloquently and grounded in fact you will be accused of sexism and misogyny and your career and social life will suffer. Unless you have serious star power and fuck you money like Joe Rogan DO NOT TALK ABOUT REDPILL or redpill related ideas.
disposable_pants 7y ago
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."
gELSK 7y ago
// , What is the real source of this quotation?
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Draaly-Throwaway 7y ago
You didn't realize your boss rules over you?
disposable_pants 7y ago
He didn't get fired for criticism of Google; he got fired for (perceived) criticism of women.
Had he written 10 pages on how certain Google products are sub-optimal because of inefficient project management practices, he would have gotten praised for taking initiative, and there's a good chance his ideas would have been seriously considered. The whole purpose of guys like this at companies like this is to find better ways to do things, which by default involves criticizing the current way of doing things. Criticizing his boss is part of his job.
The issue was criticizing the feminine imperative; the idea that Women Are Wonderful and society should go out of its way to help them be successful. That was a bridge he could not cross.
awalt_cupcake 7y ago
that motherfucker and his tricks!
ConsumingImpulse 7y ago
Nobody should have to lose their livelihood for having the "wrong" opinion, but then this is the ultra-cucked Silicon Valley we're talking about. What does the Google hydra even contribute to society aside from endless new ways of sucking up everyone's autonomy online? Think the guys who engineered the Lunar landings gave a shit if they hurt anyone's feelings along the way? They were too busy being badass and making history. Sad fucking world. "You can do it your own way, if it's done just how I say"...
UssPussySlayer 7y ago
You do realize that the lunar landings were managed and programmed by women, right?
SirByron 7y ago
Damore can and should sue GOOGLE big time as it is possibly an illegal firing.
First, federal labor law bars even non-union employers like Google from punishing an employee for communicating with fellow employees about improving working conditions. The purpose of the memo was to persuade Google to abandon certain diversity-related practices the engineer found objectionable and to convince co-workers to join his cause, or at least discuss the points he raised.
In a reply to the initial outcry over his memo, the engineer added to his memo: "Despite what the public response seems to have been, I've gotten many personal messages from fellow Googlers expressing their gratitude for bringing up these very important issues which they agree with but would never have the courage to say or defend because of our shaming culture and the possibility of being fired." The law protects that kind of "concerted activity."
Second, the engineer's memo largely is a statement of his political views as they apply to workplace policies. The memo is styled as a lament to "Google's Ideological Echo Chamber." California law prohibits employers from threatening to fire employees to get them to adopt or refrain from adopting a particular political course of action.
Danielle Brown, Google's newly installed vice president of Diversity, Integrity, & Governance, made it clear that the engineer's memo does not reflect "a viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages."
An employee does not have free reign to engage in political speech that disrupts the workplace, but punishing an employee for deviating from company orthodoxy on a political issue is not allowed either. Brown acknowledged that when she wrote that "an open, inclusive environment means fostering a culture in which those with alternative views, including different political views, feel safe sharing their opinions."
Third, the engineer complained in parts of his memo about company policies that he believes violate employment discrimination laws. Those policies include support programs limited by race or gender and promotional and hiring scoring policies that consider race and gender. It is unlawful for an employer to discipline an employee for challenging conduct that the employee reasonably believed to be discriminatory, even when a court later determines the conduct was not actually prohibited by the discrimination laws. In other words, the engineer doesn't have to be right that some of Google's diversity initiatives are unlawful, only that he reasonably believes that they are.
sehns 7y ago
Yep. I hope he sues the fuck out of them and wins.
Draaly-Throwaway 7y ago
Litteraly all google has to do is say that he voiced his opinions in an improper medium and created a hostile work environment. No way in hell he wins that case
ThePantsThief 7y ago
He voiced his opinions privately in an employees-only discussion board specifically for discussing controversial topics. I think that would backfire.
[deleted] 7y ago
Once it goes to the jury google wins hands down. He voiced an un popular opinion, got fired for it. Googles reason for firing him will be presented in an ambigous enough way to allow the jury to split. Civil cases its majority rule and preponderance of the evidence if its a jury based trial.
If its a judge ajudicated trial, that judge may face a recall election. He/she will play it safe fo rtheir career.
king_james_bible 7y ago
Consider this a reminder: Do NOT talk about the red pill outside this forum.
The world is too cucked to give this ideology a fair hearing right now, because it doesn't play well with the pro-equality media narrative.
Framefame 7y ago
I talk about TRP to lots of people, I just phrase it differently and don't use the same terms we do. You'd be surprised how much of TRP the average person agrees with if you just make them think about how relationships work (which most people never do)
[deleted] 7y ago
Also because TRP is a place where pseudo-intellectuals and misogynists come to try and justify why they aren't getting any pussy. TRP was originally formed as a response to the dangerous and unhealthy echo chamber that is the blue-pilled world but it has gradually devolved into the blue-pilled world's equal, except it's on the opposite end of the bullshit spectrum. Most people here are eager to judge and figure out everyone around them but they never bother to take a look in the mirror. Let's continue oversimplifying the world like real "alphas" do; we don't sound ridiculous at all.
redpillschool Admin 7y ago
Your dissent invalidates your accusation of an echo chamber.
FemtoG 7y ago
stopped coming here 3 years ago cause of this
well put
cherryCanSuckMyDick 7y ago
That is a problem with this place, I cant lie, but dont think it isnt having a major positive effect for men like me. The last 2-3 months since taking the red pill have been some of the best in memory for me.
We just need to organize the sidebar better with the actually useful stuff that TRP has produced for newbies to read (and there is actually a lot of it, you just have to dig to find it)
redpillschool Admin 7y ago
I would argue that side bar is absolutely full of exactly what you need for your first inoculation. Some of it might be heavy, but taking the pill was never meant to be easy.
PEDRO_de_PACAS_ 7y ago
Agreed, there are some gems but also a lot of retarded shit flying around. Let's talk about fucking girls and less about how we think they should behave and live in today's world.
ThirdLegGuy 7y ago
Words of truth here. TRP easily became an outlet for incels and all that teen rage, but originally it was a beatiful philosophy of becoming a man you would want see in the mirror tomorrow, free from outdated societal norms, enjoying his inner happiness and simply viewing women as mere humans, with their life goals, biological imperatives, strengths and weaknesses.
redpillschool Admin 7y ago
Everything looks rosy in retrospect.
The forum was full of genetic losers since the beginning. That's why the question was asked "why aren't I getting laid?"
The content here is more or less similar to years ago. There's more filler, but the quality stuff is easy to get to.
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nocroc 7y ago
Hey, would you mind giving me some info on what happend to the Tea Party? I'm not an american but want to read into it - the tea party sounds really interesting!
hot_rats_ 7y ago
Tea Party started as a libertarian movement whose popularity was quickly realized by authoritarian politicians, who then used the term to market themselves in the process killing any meaning it once had.
colovick 7y ago
Essentially a large group of republican voters tried to leave the party and form their own party because they weren't being represented by the party they supported. They started holding town hall meetings and tried to get it off the ground, but had no political expertise, do a few good hearted senators from the republican party "defected" to join the movement and help them formulate ideas and setup a working national party. Only instead of doing that, they slowly changed the narrative to be a more extreme form of conservatism and had them rejoin the republican voting base while retaining the notion that the tea party is definitely still a thing
nocroc 7y ago
Ok get it I imagined something like this would have happend. Thanks for the heads up.
wickedogg 7y ago
The big issue is that moderates don't pay enough attention to either SJWs or the alt-right because they are too busy not caring. Most people are dumb and they don't think about big important issues because they know that their opinion is uninformed and unhelpful. When some extreme group gets control of the narrative, most people just assume that the extreme group must be correct since that group knows so much more about the topic. This is how extreme groups rise to power.
Moderates need to understand that SJWs are just as destructive to honest debate as the alt-right. SJWs weaken the position of real liberals because they make the left seem like kooks who believe feels=reals.
If you can't hear opposing views, if you can't accept evidence, if you can't change your opinion based on new information, and if you are a fan of a political group, then you are part of the problem.
StillRedder 7y ago
Says the guy who's on the front page right now, lol.
Agreed though.
touristtownwasteland 7y ago
Or because it's an echo chamber where you'll never be wrong ????
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Arnoux 7y ago
The whole world is not too cucked. The biggest cucks are the western societies.
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adam_varg 7y ago
I am not aware that there are mud huts in central europe, except those few in gypsy settlement under Tatra mountains.
And we dont have this kind of bullshit. Saying age gap would get you laugh on. Saying any of that gender bs would made you laughing stock. Saying women can constent to sex while drunk and you get called sexist. And i could go on like this forever...
an_actual_cuck 7y ago
Lol @ SJW riots. Because that's been a prevalent problem for sure
samenrofringslikeLBJ 7y ago
OWS begs to differ, Hamburg G20 begs to differ, the PRIDE parade begs to differ, London riots beg to differ, etc. The key thing here is that consumer behaviour has an influence on Google, a bank like GS could give a fuck what some transgendered bums think about them.
an_actual_cuck 7y ago
Calling OWS a riot is intellectually disingenuous, and we both know it.
Calling the rioting at the Hamburg G20 "SJW riots" seems bizarre. Weren't the rioters for the most part communists/anarchists? Calling this an "SJW riot" seems like a pretty non-insightful analysis. Is anyone left of center an SJW?
Not sure what "the PRIDE parade" is, are you referring to Istanbul?
And what are "London riots"? Are we talking about 2011? This strikes me as another situation where calling it an "SJW riot" seems not only overly simplistic, but likely outright incorrect. Unless you're talking about something else?
Arnoux 7y ago
Calm your tits I am not talking about mud huts. We have finance/programming and every kind of jobs and we live in brick houses. We even have cars and iPhones. Yet the leaders are not that pussy here and you can raise your concern against feminism.. Actually there is nothing to raise as there are not many feminists.
vandaalen 7y ago
Hahaha. Believing that political leaders are actually making a change. And even for the better. Boy, you made my sides ache.
Arnoux 7y ago
I am not referring to only political leaders, but highly influential businessmen and corporate leaders etc.
vandaalen 7y ago
Yeah. They surely have your personal well-being in the back of their head...
Arnoux 7y ago
Actually politicians care a bit about it, as we give them power with our voting. Here corruption is illegal (does not mean it never happens), meanwhile USA simply calls it lobby.
vandaalen 7y ago
Politicians do not give ashit about you. They are not there for you. They are there to give the system the semblance of working in favour of your and of being fair and just, they are there to legalize the shit that will be done to you and they are there so you have a scape goat you can blame if things do not go they way they go.
AemonDK 7y ago
you don't seriously believe that middle easterners live in mudhuts?
pilljourney 7y ago
I'm amazed at this as well. For all the shit trp says about reading non fiction and expanding your mind and taking in all information to learn from every source, they're terrible at practicing it.
ruok4a69 7y ago
An overarching problem across all of Reddit is that a small minority (as few as one) can make comments that the majority doesn't agree with, yet are cherry picked and become somehow representative of a subreddit.
samenrofringslikeLBJ 7y ago
Obviously you both are morons, no not everybody in the middle east live in mud huts, some and a lot do. Wht you are doing is a left wing debating tactic to derail an argument. Nobody thinks a person is being homophobic when they call their friends fags, except for the SJW crowd.
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togro20 7y ago
"I don't hate gay people, I just use words that are slurs to them!" Look, you may think that you're not homophobic for using words like that, but you look like you are when you throw slurs around. Saying "I don't hate black people, I just like saying the word nigger!" is the exact same thing; you're using a word that has been a insult for a group of people and trying to convince people that you're still respectful to them while doing it.
samenrofringslikeLBJ 7y ago
All black people would like to say hello
togro20 7y ago
Black people say it to reclaim the word, to try to take away the horrible connotation of centuries of use from it. When someone who isn't close to a black person uses it, they can't use that same reasoning; it was always a slur said from (mainly) a white person to a black person. You mentioned that only SJW-people cared about this, but I want you to realize a larger portion of the populace tries not being dick bags when it comes to talking about other people.
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hot_rats_ 7y ago
You're not doing the right any favors by trying to claim the justified use of slurs. I will defend your right to say whatever you want, but I will also say as a conservative, don't try to fucking associate me with that bullshit. And if you don't want people to focus on the dumbest parts of your argument, don't say dumb shit.
samenrofringslikeLBJ 7y ago
Im not a conservative and this isnt a political sub, people are getting their panties in a twist because I insulted far left movements. I dont care, I can accept left wing hate for calling a friend a fag or queer, I'm not trying to be popular among that crowd anyway.
hot_rats_ 7y ago
You clearly do care about people on the right supporting you on this though, otherwise you wouldn't be digging in on it. But this is not a left-right issue like you want to make it out to be.
samenrofringslikeLBJ 7y ago
No, but I will grant you that there are a lot of alt-righters running around yelling "niggerjews did 9/11, shillary4prisonbitch!!1" and then turn to the conservative side and say "right guys, this is what right wing opinions are?".
My issue with OWS, PRIDE etc is that they are marxist movements, and all marxist movements are by definition SJW, because social justice is the underpinning of marxist ideologies. And typical behaviour from that crowd is to interject themselves in your private stuff like conversations or strawmen type arguments like "yo dude not all middle easterners live in mud huts" simply because that is THE ONLY argument they can win, they can't win on the real argument which was that the Western world is not nearly as cucked as living in a part of the world that has a combined GDP of the size of Spain, a mostly 3rd world place.
[deleted] 7y ago
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[deleted] 7y ago
They are fully aware of the Streisand Effect. They are also aware by doing nothing they are gonna take a big hit PR pending other legal cases etc... By firing the guy they picking a what they believe to be the winning or more popular side.
En-Zu 7y ago
It's so well written that I, for one, have been spreading it around whenever I can.
snoozeflu 7y ago
I'm afraid they wont be allowed to react for fear of losing their jobs if they speak up.
SirByron 7y ago
You should also mention this is an illegal firing and he can sue big time and win.
ThePantsThief 7y ago
I would pay to watch that trial ????
BlairResignationJam_ 7y ago
In 2 days everyone will have forgotten about this and nothing will have changed lol
[deleted] 7y ago
That's probably what Mozilla though when the SJWs pushed out Brendan Eich.
A couple of years later, I'm reading articles about how Mozilla is trying hard to be relevant again, because most people have stopped using it.
This act will merely accelerate the move by the right to non-SJW sites. Which won't be serving advertising from Google.
[deleted] 7y ago
This is a flawed simile because the goal of equal representation is to reach a desirable state. A fair comparison would be measures that aim to reduce the levels of male homelessness, deaths, prison time and dropout rates down to the level of females (and supposedly by means that are comparable to discrimination).
NotoriousTRP 7y ago
Stories like this make me very sad because Google is such a heavy influence on the tech world and this will absolutely make other companies lean towards pulling the same bullshit
SAPPHIREAURA 7y ago
I read this story and the memo earlier and I couldn't help but think the whole time this guy has taken the red pill. LOL Also, I find it absolutely putrid that women feel like there should be an exact 50/50 representation of them in any industry SOLELY because they're women. It's scary where feminism is taking western society in 2017.
[deleted] 7y ago
Use the brave browser. Not chrome.
vorot93 7y ago
Chrome (and even Chromium) is evil regardless of Google's social agenda
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/06/not-ok-google-chromium-voice-extension-pulled-after-spying-concerns/
Throwawayhelper420 7y ago
That's just an extension bro.
You're crazy if you think you can trust browser extensions from pretty much anyone, they all steal your data.
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ThrowingMyslfOutther 7y ago
That's a great suggestion if what you are searching for is not important and you can afford to have 20% relevant links missing.
HasCookies 7y ago
It's unfortunately missing a lot of extensions that chrome has.
HoundDogs 7y ago
This is why I stopped using it. I didn't realize just how convenient Crome was until I tried to switch.
HasCookies 7y ago
As an update:
https://www.brave.com/loading-chrome-extensions-in-brave/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13422341
CuckedByTRUMP 7y ago
Just tried it... man, it's nice but it is missing too much.
perplexedm 7y ago
Ironic that there was no need at all for a browser which use payments when free ones existed. But, SJWs caused this to happen.
cherryCanSuckMyDick 7y ago
Chrome requires payments now?
perplexedm 7y ago
Brave browser is created by Brendan Eich who had to leave Mozilla since SJWs went ape shit because of Brendan's donations to some anti-gay charity years back before he got appointed as CEO.
Due to its advertisements blocking, Brave came out with a system to reward publishers, called Brave Payments. This system allows users to optionally set a budget that they are willing to donate to the websites they visit. Brave will then calculate the percentage assigned to each website through an algorithm and the publisher receives a transfer in bitcoins if it opts into the system.
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dingman58 7y ago
Well now we all know his name, yeah? There's no such thing as bad publicity
[deleted] 7y ago
A doctorate in STEM from Harvard, and still he's fucking stupid enough to think "yes, circulating this highly provocative memo will be a great professional move".
Wrap up your dick AND your thoughts, lads.
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afkb39sdfb 7y ago
A guy that intelligent planned several moves ahead. He knew they would fire him.
5t3fan0 7y ago
the one knowledge he never learnt
max_peenor 7y ago
He may have also decided to retire. They probably gave him a spectacular package as long as he signed an NDA. Not doing so would cause them great trouble in court, since this was not published to the public.
wendoll 7y ago
Only express your opinions if they align with the left. If they're on the right then make sure you shut your mouth. - liberals
Dr_D1amond 7y ago
Im not sure he did intend for it to be circulated. But clearly someone in the circle he shared it with thought it wise to distribute
[deleted] 7y ago
True, no evidence of intent.
On further reflection, be like Yonatan Zungar - he was smart enough to align himself with the righteous faction and earn enormous woke-points by writing a Medium post condemning James. If he doesn't believe what he wrote, so much the better for him.
ThePantsThief 7y ago
It was posted in an employees only discussion board specifically for discussing controversial topics.
wristcontrol 7y ago
He broke the cardinal rule of professional communication: do not write anything in an email that you wouldn't want to see printed on the front page of the national newspaper.
quotegenerator 7y ago
I would add don't write it down or put it in a computer at all. It's dangerous enough saying it aloud when there might be hot mics around.
RedPillFusion 7y ago
It might have been done out of stupidity, but it might have also been done out of courage. When you have his level of credentials, perhaps you give less of a fuck about what your employer might do in response. You don't think the author of this "manifesto" was completely lucid and aware of the possible consequences? Nigga please. Man's a fucking hero.
[deleted] 7y ago
His credentials burn with his reputation. More a martyr than a hero.
ThrowingMyslfOutther 7y ago
I'd be surprised if he gets hired again in anything but service/retail.
RedPillFusion 7y ago
You overestimate the attention span of our culture, and you underestimate the desire of business owners to generate profit. He'll get work. The guy's a harvard educated software engineer.
SkyGrl377 7y ago
Or maybe he knew he'd get fired and thus receiving a ton more attention for it. In the end he redpilled a ton more people. Could've all been planned, just saying.
[deleted] 7y ago
I doubt it was any kind of martyrdom.
He's probably got a gig set up somewhere else and just wanted to flash the left's own insanity back at them on his way out.
redpillschool Admin 7y ago
There's a lot to be said for the media attention he's getting. If he was building a brand (a la Milo) this would be a great way to do it.
colovick 7y ago
At the very least, Google openly and publicly said they fired him for this letter specifically, so I can sue them over it if he's so inclined
vwzwv 7y ago
I doubt it was martydom or what you said. He was probably drowning in his own kool-aid and felt entitled to say it because he knew he was 'right'. Any time someone does something because they are 'right' that opposes the status quo, whether he is actually right or wrong, has given the other side a free pass to annihilate him publicly in plain view.
Just_in78 7y ago
Gab has already openly offered a position to "the author of the memo" so there's that.
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[deleted] 7y ago
He hedged each sentance in virtue signalling. Half the memo is him saying women are great, diversity is great, and he's a good person.
Didnt matter.
You can see why people stop attempting to be diplomatic. He should have kept his mouth shut thpugh
redbeaux 7y ago
Maybe, depending on what his end goals were. I'm glad people like him do shit like this. Guys that "take one for the team" as it were. I've read some of the liberal media on this and they make statements like:
"Anti Diversity memo" and "Manifesto that states women aren't welcome at google"
Many people aren't going to read what he actually wrote, but there are those that will, and when the do they will tilt their heads sideways and think "Wait a minute..." They will see the blatant lies and manipulation. Some will chose to "wake up" as a result. This guy ruined his career at google, but he'll be fine.
FakeGuru 7y ago
Exactly right and it backfired.
Much better to have made a precise allegation.
vwzwv 7y ago
Signaling like that comes off as having a snaked tongue, and usually means the writer sees the intended readers as dominant, irrational, and pig-headed. Getting out of that kind of writing mindset can be difficult. By doing that he is signaling that others can tear him limb from limb, and that he has lost before the readers have a meeting about it. People are so one dimensional when reasoning with others.
belisaurius 7y ago
You can staple as many roses to a log of shit as you want, and people will still smell your shit. The point of diplomacy isn't to 'hide' your ideas, it's to present them in a way that your audience can hear them without being turned off. Finding the right words to express yourself to an audience is just as important as the idea itself.
[deleted] 7y ago
That's the point. There was no right way. Emperor wants you to say he looks stylish, period.
He doesnt want you to see 4 lights
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WhorehouseVet 7y ago
Even though this is the Ramesh and most logical text out there explaining his position, too many people are too stupid to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Punchpplay 7y ago
Yea instead of being a hamster in a cuck filled corporation, he will be a voice for change and sanity and can easily make money off of this publicity ... what a fucking tool, amirite guys?
[deleted] 7y ago
How can he monetise this? Every HR department in the land will have a giant neon sign above his photo saying "do not hire", and he will be no-platformed at every speaking opportunity. He's kryptonite.
OceanPoultry 7y ago
Gab already offered him a job
Punchpplay 7y ago
Every HR that's attached to Politically correct money, which is huge right now but not all encompassing. This guy is a PhD, he can find a new job with a private company very easily, especially with employers who privately agree with him. Or he can create a business of his own based on his ideals, to think that the world has become so cucked that the blue pill establishment can destroy this man is to basically say masculinity and the red pill has lost.
[deleted] 7y ago
You're right, there are still sensible outfits about who will assess him on his skills. Here's hoping!
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Punchpplay 7y ago
Wikileaks has offered him a job, lol
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MaleToothFairy 7y ago
Or maybe some people are dumb enough to really believe in idealistic values like rational discourse of ideas and changing the world to something better by speaking up.
beginner_ 7y ago
Yeah. this naivety more common in highly educated (high IQ?) people than one would assume. You could count be to that group, before TRP.
dum_dum_boy 7y ago
yeah, so I guess that would make this entire sub idealistic too. just a sub for dumb, delusional men who think they could change the world.
Those British colonists, man...what idiots! Thinking they could actually run their shit better than ol King George. Har har har. Let's lump those Greeks and Romans in there too. Buncha fuckin delusional, idealistic morons.
Vague_Disclosure 7y ago
He is probably used to rational conversation within his well educated social circle. He got screwed once his ideas got out to the general public who by the standards of a Harvard Phd holder are much less intelligent, lack critical thinking skills, and hold no respect for actual data and statistics.
cashmoney_x 7y ago
Fuck, I'm still sort of stuck in this mode of thinking :(
dum_dum_boy 7y ago
shhh. shhh. it's ok. just follow the Law of Power #233 that is applicable in every context, and in every situation! NEVER speak up, just behave like all the others! that way nothing ever changes, and the people in power remain in power! now go lift, fuck, and make some widgets for Daddy Rothschild!
vwzwv 7y ago
When the outcome of such thinking isn't what it 'should' be at face value then it's blue pill thinking.
AttackOnKvothe 7y ago
Thats how Donald Trump got elected, thought.
Many people got tired of the shit which was happening, and voted against the mental illness in their country.
MaleToothFairy 7y ago
If you analyze it closely, Trump did the exact opposite.
He hired hiw own pollsters to find out what people really wanted and what troubles they really had. Then he kept his thoughts to himself and pandered to what the people were already thinking.
And then he just voiced their thoughts, because you can only teach somebody something that he already knows.
if you remember, he had different talking points in the beginning of the primaries, compared to the end of the race in the general election. He is a true mastermind.
Steelmade58 7y ago
Not only that. He also kept on repeating phrases written for him. Every time he got out of the script he fucked up. That's how we know he's not into what he was speaking of.
IShavedMyNutsForThis 7y ago
Voting for Donald Trump is definitely not voting against mental illness. Trump is about as batshit insane as they come.
commander_zoidberg 7y ago
Is he actually insane, or is it just a persona he puts on because it works for him? Like Kissinger's mad man hypothesis.
IShavedMyNutsForThis 7y ago
At minimum he's a narcissist, which yes, doesn't make him "insane" but severely mentally ill. There are exactly two things in this world that Donald Trump cares about:
How Donald Trump views Donald Trump
Everything else is window dressing.
awalt_cupcake 7y ago
If he's insane and worth billions then we're all the bottom feeders for insanity
AttackOnKvothe 7y ago
Or maybe he had the balls to take the bullet for the rest, so maybe the glorious west can stop being so cucked.
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redpillschool Admin 7y ago
I mentioned above:
There's a lot to be said for the media attention he's getting. If he was building a brand (a la Milo) this would be a great way to do it.
TheRedThrowAwayPill 7y ago
Absolutely!
He copy pasted the normal shit we've heard on these forums for the past 3-5 years. Standard stuff. Nothing new.
I couldn't believe this guy was dumb enough to email all that shit to anyone. If he was smart he should have just stuck to reverse-discrimination as that is an offense which the company can get sued for, thus HR should be wary of.
The rest was our usual /pol/, TRP, MRA shit which no HR department is gonna spend the time of day to listen to.
However he did do some serious damage to Google. If people start thinking Google is toxic .. they may lose potential new hires. Both male and female!
I swear this guy was paid off by Google's competition!
[deleted] 7y ago
He's made clear to the world that Google is SJW-converged and should therefore be avoided by anyone who isn't an SJW.
I sure as heck wouldn't even think of working there after this.
PM_ME_UR_TECHNO_GRRL 7y ago
No, he was aware of the potential consequences, which is why is memo is carefully worded. You're being naive and short sighted. What he did was truly brave and commendable. The world is now aware of the seriousness of the issue.
[deleted] 7y ago
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PM_ME_UR_TECHNO_GRRL 7y ago
Not to you, because you prioritize keeping your job to having principles.
[deleted] 7y ago
RP thinking is amoral. Preach your principles elsewhere, bub.
PM_ME_UR_TECHNO_GRRL 7y ago
Er, principles = frame, not morality.
You prefer to bend over instead of standing up for yourself because you want to keep your job. You lost frame. Damore kept his.
[deleted] 7y ago
Do you even work? This is teen anarchist horseshit.
PM_ME_UR_TECHNO_GRRL 7y ago
This is you trying to save face.
If you were honest with yourself, you would accept that you, just like most men, lose frame in certain situations. That is why courage is actually rare to find.
Unless you are really trying to kid yourself in believing you are always brave and never lose frame.
[deleted] 7y ago
I never said shit about my bravery or lack thereof. You're tilting at a windmill I haven't built, but I'm sure all of this "courage" will work out wonderfully for you in a real professional environment.
PM_ME_UR_TECHNO_GRRL 7y ago
I'm talking about your bravery, because you called Damore stupid. He is not stupid, he held frame, when clearly you (and likely most men, myself included) would bend over in order to keep your job.
beginner_ 7y ago
That or he consulted with a lawyer first about his option if he gets fired and then cash in big. But yeah I very much doubt that.
[deleted] 7y ago
In America you can be fired for anything except gender or race, except a few states. Even then, they can come up with whatever reason they want to fire you.
There is no way at all to pursue this legally. Literally zero.
[deleted] 7y ago
Actually that would be very 4D chess of him, hope this is true.
rp_newdawn 7y ago
Can we sidebar this post? I want the knowledge of this memo saved for future members to read
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PEDRO_de_PACAS_ 7y ago
What does this have to do with getting laid? This dude just cut all his prospects in half, at best.
fragglerockerpoo_22 7y ago
Why Dr. Damore’s memo adds profundity to the dialectic and why it doesn’t matter
Dr. Damore’s piece was one of the most well thought out arguments for deconstructionist thought around modern rhetoric in recent memory. His eloquent and succinct piece underscores much of the mindless debate revolving around gender issues that are the very core of many of our identities. He embraced the constructionist model, stoic beliefs, and rational thinking while attempting to mitigate cognitive dissonance at the same time. However, as he is arguing against rhetoric and cognitive bias, none of this matters.
The enigmatic field of cognitive bias mitigation is just that: enigmatic. Until medical science has a more thorough understanding of the complex chemical and electrical systems that comprise our neurobiology, we’re all operating with a fully empirical approach. Some methods work for some people while others do not. There is no true codex (as of yet) for deciphering each individuals mode of bias and how to overcome it. And until that happens, everything is a shot in the dark.
However, working in the trenches to revolutionize the pervasive attitude towards cognitive bias means that each and every one of us is responsible for not letting our own biases fool us into thinking we are acting rationally. That means we must all seek to understand…both sides. Danielle Brown, the heart of Google’s response to Dr. Damore’s memo, also has points that we must seek to understand through a deconstructionist lens. Why is Danielle and Google reacting this way, what is behind it, how can we use this understanding of their view points to better understand our own?
It is very easy to dismiss opposing viewpoints on both sides. Dr. Damore himself points out that he too may be biased in his approach: for male rights, for conservative rights, for rational thinking. The ability to embrace emotional thinking as a path towards empathy is a view point that many hold, and although you may personally disagree with this, as Dr. Damore does, we cannot dismiss this thought as the tool of authoritarians attempting to correct a situation they perceive as oppression. We must seek to understand this viewpoint by taking the component pieces apart and putting them back together. In this way we can better understand those around us, as well as our own views on the world. Emotional thinking is not amoral thinking, it is only biased thinking. Philosophy, our philosophy, becomes the argument against emotional thought while psychology becomes the argument for it. We make un-apologetic pleas with the world to help temper their emotions, while at the same time seeking to elucidate their necessity in the human experience. As Alan Watts put it: “There is an uncanny wisdom in the spontaneous and natural reactions of our organism to the course of events. The extraordinary capacity to feel an event inwardly [emotionally], as distinct from bursting into precipitate action to avoid the tension of feeling—this capacity is in fact a wonderful power of adaptation to life… “ The rub, and Dr. Damore’s most critical point, is our reaction to our biases. Do we allow them to engulf our actions, or disallow external manifestation from taking over and affecting those around us?
As a group seeking to mitigate bias, we too are guilty of allowing our passions towards this cause overwhelm us. The core tenant of a stoic philosophy is to endure without complaint, to accept our nature as part of who we are thereby not allowing it to effect who we want to be.
Hegel’s Dialectic has been nearly proven true. The accuracy in which he describes our sociological manifestations of an action-reaction culture is on the nose. We’re doomed to move from one side of the Dialectic to the other, a pendulum constantly swinging from reactionary to liberalizing. We can only hope, in our collective actions and reactions, to dampen that swing each time it passes.
In truth, the heart of this matter is the impermanent-permanent dynamic of online commenting. Our passions drive us to the desire to change, to fulfill an actualization we need to be human. When we perceive injustice we strive to rectify it, if only in word. An online comment is often the same as a passing tempest of exasperation, a fuck you to the cabinet you just hit your head on. It means very little but its lasting impacts to others can be far reaching. No more is that fuck you uttered into the void of the cabinet space to disappear. It will remain, forever, online.
Tl;Dr
You can’t find cognitive bias with anything but pathos.
Dr_D1amond 7y ago
Regardless of any truth in his manifesto, if it gives the company a bad image and reduces their profits, youre going to get fired.
Starter91 7y ago
This happens because society is interfering too much in individual person and his personal space but because most people have crippling self esteem and big egos this pulls through like hot knife through butter. society is going against laws of nature and that will not end well.
Dr_D1amond 7y ago
I wouldn't disagree that society is trying to ignore our biology, but in this instance he was always going to get fired. Google doesnt give a fuck about your beliefs it cares about its profits.
[deleted] 7y ago
If it did, it wouldn't be letting SJWs run the place.
Dr_D1amond 7y ago
Those swjs are earning google a lot of money. Unsuprising they fired him to keep their image
clonegreen 7y ago
I have to go on Facebook due to work and I found this smart programmer(female) who was offended and glad Google "did the right thing".
She admitted in her post that she never read the memo yet was bashing the guy for being sexist and racist. After supposedly skimming through it she said well he's not racist, but still sexist.
I can't understand how people can form a completely emotional argument over a headline. These people get riled up without even knowing their claimed enemy it's really pathetic to see this from supposedly smart people.
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LadyXon 7y ago
Now the top post of all time!
0xdada 7y ago
There is something people overlook when they read the memo.
What he talks about is averages, and the skew in those averages between men and women.
The Google and SJW position is that the distribution of talent in the sample sets across all women and all men in engineering must have the same kurtosis and skew, for men and for women.
The guy's point is that this is extremely improbable given that if there are ANY differences between men and women (the two sample set groups), making policy based on the assumption that the distribution curves are the same is a bad bet.
If you want to guarantee that you will treat everyone unfairly, just treat them all the same. This diversity bullshit is necessarily about treating everyone unfairly, which is why this guy wrote the memo.
Sciencetor2 7y ago
I do not mind how this memo was approached or worded, but an internal company memo was not the forum for it... Also...
Anyone who uses this line needs to remember this xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1357/
ejpusa 7y ago
More of an intelligence test? Who would be dumb enough to post this?
Exactly how many Nobel prizes did Madam Curie win? Work with women software developers everyday, many of them are better then the "guys" I work with. Far better actually.
To generalize like this is just dumb. Like saying "ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE RACISTS", because my uncle Louie is.
nninja 7y ago
I'm not really surprised. I assume the women who go into software eng are really keen about it, whereas men will go in it because it leads to a good job and they're mostly mediocre.
bm75 7y ago
No, he was fired because he is a whinny little faggot who should be doing his fucking job instead of sending a 10 page manifesto to 50+ thousand other employees who don't want to hear the snowflake cry about how he's being oppressed by the mean women and gays.
You fucking conservatives queers like to project that you're all tough and competitive and authoritarian and lack any and all empathy but you certainly do behave like little melting snowflakes who have such fragile little egos when people who have actually been oppressed for, well, EVER stand up and get in your fascist faggot faces and say, "FUCK OFF!"
celmxc 7y ago
Whoaaah ... slow down there princess. You starting to sound like a whinny little faggot.
WhereIsTheEvidence1 7y ago
To everyone reading this message, look at how angry this clown had to be the write that.
BlindWoodWander 7y ago
As a fellow biologist, I am offended by his lack of peer-reviewed references. :P
En-Zu 7y ago
It might be worth it for you to give him some?
[deleted] 7y ago
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TheRedThrowAwayPill 7y ago
That's a PDF. I ain't touching that shit.
Someone use imagemagik to convert to JPG..
mbillion 7y ago
So here is the long story short for those of you not in the career world, or for those of you who do not understand how things work.
(1) HR protects the companies interests. Not yours. Them telling that they got your back is a lie. HR exists to protect the company from lawsuits.
(2) Being openly critical of your employer publicly does not fly in the career world. You just do not do it. This includes publishing articles contrary to the companies stated, goals, directives, and missions.
What does the mean for the redpill.
SEPERATE IT FROM YOUR WORK LIFE. You will be chewed up and spit out for being redpill at work. Doesnt matter if its true or not. Doesnt matter if its published in a peer reviewed journal.
If there is a hint of you as a senior employee playing gender favorites you will be out on your ass so fast.
If there is a hint of you publishing material that challenges your companies public image you will be out on your ass.
Seriously, The Red Pill is about personal improvement, stop trying to change other peoples perceptions. Its about you. This community isnt successful because we yell at people and evangelize. Especially in work, just keep your fucking mouth shut.
[deleted] 7y ago
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[deleted] 7y ago
Don't listen to them no matter who you are you should do what you love, at the end of the day that's all that matters.
[deleted] 7y ago
Just a warning, stating your sex as a part of your argument is not allowed here.
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suckmuckduck 7y ago
Sounds like someone is just tired of all this BS....
Magnum256 7y ago
I thought it was accepted fact that there was biological difference I mean obviously there's a physical difference in muscle mass, average body fat, height, genitals, etc. There's difference in brain weight, difference in IQ spread/variance (men reach the extremes, lowest IQ and highest IQ where women tend to have a tighter range that doesn't extend as far into the very low or very high). This isn't even controversial this is known by doctors, psychologists, etc.
Loki0230 7y ago
SJW types don't believe in science and facts, those are tools of the patriarchy
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EpicLevelCheater 7y ago
Rule Zero violation. Banned.
[deleted] 7y ago
Substantiate your opinion with facts and support. I want to hear this.
Draaly-Throwaway 7y ago
Seconded. I would love to see a rebuttal with sourced material. There is one on why he likely got fired, but it focuses on how he called 1/3 of employees less effective at a biological level, and not the biology/psychology he spoke of.
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pipirupirupi 7y ago
Why is Olympics sex segregated then?
SovereignSoul76 7y ago
"There is absolutely no credible sources that women are biologically inferior to men..."
How many female Chess Grandmasters have there been?
[deleted] 7y ago
I wouldn't know where to begin picking apart this statement.
Ok... I don't browse reddit when I'm at work.
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Jarjarbinks519 7y ago
IM FUCKIN RED PILLIN TOO HARD IM ABOUT TO FUCKIN OD AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH DEMONS GET OUT OF MY HEAD U DEMONS
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Luckylancer96 7y ago
You can find a video series about this topic at sidebar. It was at bottom of its list and its name was similar to "falsehood of gender researchs"
Look at it if you intrested in this topic, men.
cas_999 7y ago
Jesus Christ op has a lot of time. Who the fuck actually read thru that?
MinatoThe4th 7y ago
It's the actual document numnuts.
Fragzilla360 7y ago
Well it is a message board. People tend to read things here.
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bkk123 7y ago
I hope he gets some sweet wrongful termination lawsuit shekels.
The best he can hope for now is to get hired on the down low at an all male non SJW second rate startup.
Nobody in the super PC bay area will go near him otherwise for the next couple years.
Bigpiganddig 7y ago
Programs to help employees succeed that are based on race and gender (except for white men ) exist at many places beyond just gooogle.
newName543456 7y ago
When ideology doesn't match reality...
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littfamily 7y ago
That's what he gets for annoying the bosses
Carp8DM 7y ago
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
APSTNDPhy 7y ago
I just read his entire memo, the irony is too much.
FakeGuru 7y ago
The guy would have done better to express himself clearly, rather than write in this ponderous style.
His complaint, I assume, is that google is hiring unqualified women and minority candidates in order to boost their numbers.
Then,because the generally are not up the job,the company makes it taboo to criticicise them by deeming it sexist or racist speech.
OneRedYear 7y ago
The way to fix that is to hire qualified people regardless of race. Nobody wants to be a pity hire. I'm a black guy who brings in great money for my department. I bust my ass to be the best. I look at the metrics. Year to year since I took over we have increased our department's revenue. Fuck diversity hires, get the best only.
BernieEffingSanders 7y ago
Congratulations! Not a fucking one of you actually read the "manifesto" in question.
Because if you did, and you still managed to arrive at that pants-on-head conclusion, I've got some bad news about your chromosome count.
pondhockeyguyrevived 7y ago
Google Management (probably)
"Fuck that was a long memo.. well reasoned or not, dont really wanna read that.. cant we just fire this guy?"
celmxc 7y ago
Where the fuck is the TL;DR version!
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EpicLevelCheater 7y ago
No one cares about your vagina.
Read our rules. You are not allowed to openly identify as female here.
30 day ban.
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curiouslyengaged 7y ago
This - this is the crux of the issue. Liberals are justifying their amoral decision based on empathy. Empathy overrides morality and objectivity.
[deleted] 7y ago
" On average " .... what does that mean in this context?
JohnGalt316 7y ago
what an idiot
rule #1 about fight club
it was a shit test in life ... are you smart enough to say what people want to hear or dumb enough to say the truth?
[deleted] 7y ago
Truth bombs going off everywhere
God Bless Donald Trump
Hjalmbere 7y ago
Goodthink^TM vs The Truth: 1-0.
Fuck Google.
[deleted] 7y ago
I thought the new CEO was a pacifist; never took sides. From the looks of it, however, it seems like he plays both sides.
Reminds me of this quote.
Pope_Lucious 7y ago
There are no pacifist CEOs. At least not successful ones.
[deleted] 7y ago
I have met many Googlers who worked with him and by all accounts he was a very nice guy. Thought he was stoic and reasonable. Pity to see him succumb to the popular opinion, or maybe he always backed the pussies.
Pope_Lucious 7y ago
Yea it is sad. I agree with the others on this sub it was an obvious career mistake but damn man, that took fucking balls to write and put out there. Too few people willing to speak the truth is how we got here in the first place.
[deleted] 7y ago
I read these things and think to often conclude that it is kind of a blessing in disguise that so few of us really know what's going on behind the curtains. A decade ago, I thought The Secret was the shit and now I'm having my eyes reopened once again, thanks to TheRedPill and MGTOW.
[deleted] 7y ago
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[deleted] 7y ago
That's really funny. I used to love that show until it went full-time cuckoldry.
epistemic_humility 7y ago
For those of you that would like an alternative to Google for searching the web please do try duckduckgo.com its a great search engine and maintains more of your privacy.
sukaprivet 7y ago
please dont, look into the history of the guy that started it. He pretty much made money off of selling peoples data.
gmwbh 7y ago
lol. What a bunch of losers
Antiquus 7y ago
No matter if your arguments are fair, reasoned and insightful, you are an at-will employee and if you piss off the boss, say goodbye.
[deleted] 7y ago
For all his credentials Dr. James Damore needed to learn Law 38 Believe what you line behave as others do.
SiulaGrande 7y ago
theres a great response article on the site quillette from 4 other scientists talking about the memo. the original was taken down. here's an archived link:
https://archive.is/VlNfl
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juusukun 7y ago
The thing about free speeches, you are allowed to express it in the appropriate place. I'm pretty sure the ex-employee could have voiced his opinions using a method other than a company-wide memo where he worked at a company that is making efforts towards equality, when less than a century ago there was huge discrimination against women
Sometimes people seem to forget that things have changed very drastically in a short amount of time.
mbillion 7y ago
Im firmly convinced that many of these people have no idea what working at a corporation is like. You arent sovereign when you are under contract to toe the company line.
For better or worse, he was fired because he did something against the companies stated message, their work in equality etc etc etc.
HR doesnt care if your publishing is scientifically accurate, you hurt their stock price or open them up to lawsuit you are out
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jupiter6666 7y ago
This guy guillotined himself.
Imperius__Rex 7y ago
https://evolution-institute.org/article/on-common-criticisms-of-evolutionary-psychology/
This article is a great read on the subject of the differences of the sexes.
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Cantloginhere 7y ago
As soon as he started using 'on average' he was digging his own grave. Same with trying to bring in politics (why?). He had real numbers to hand, should have just presented them.
mbillion 7y ago
would have still been fired. You do not get to be a senior employee in a publicly traded company and take a stance against the companies goals.
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420PussyEater 7y ago
I worked at the Mountain View campus and while I skimmed the article I definitely can confirm that this to be true. In his words and Googles actions I'm not surprised.
[deleted] 7y ago
Here's an analysis of why the person would be fired written by a former Google employee https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788
[deleted] 7y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6JRD-ubxR4
Resistance. We live in such an enrironment, we must behave like in continuous resistance, if we just use good sense, and reason, and a bit of healthy tradition.
[deleted] 7y ago
... does he have a PhD? I searched the libraries and don't find even an embargoed thesis. His program's alumni list shows theses and graduation years, but all it says for him is "Software Engineer, Google". His advisor's CV lists his other student's theses but doesn't mention him.
Doubtful he was even ABD.
wattwatty 7y ago
He doesn't. Credentials matter, so this is important.
Tommy_407 7y ago
That was a long post, but, thanks for taking the time to outline the article and all
I wonder how it would have went down if the person writing the paper was the archetypical Chad, dominating and perhaps plating 7 women in the company....
Sullibang 7y ago
Yeah but he also said women can't do computers? So?
[deleted] 7y ago
he didnt say it with this absoluteness. he only made claims about averages. of course there are good female computer scientists.
Sullibang 7y ago
Yeah but I mean when your questioning a companies integrity based on wholistic averages then of course you're gonna get fired? We work in autocracies, not democracies.
Starter91 7y ago
Some women can but, i have had connection with women who cant format text in word document. Yet there are shitload of women like that working in HR all around the world.
Sullibang 7y ago
I mean yeah and also there are men who can't do that either.
biggerbetterjobs 7y ago
This is a very sophomoric statement.
osamasbigbro 7y ago
He said that men and women have different preferences for work. On average women work computers less well than men. On average women are less suitable to the high stress work of being a CEO. On average men aim for positions of power and high wages, and women on average aim for happiness, for social interactions. Hence over time this leads to different distributions of genders in each field. Obviously there would be more men in software development/engineering if women prefer social interaction jobs, and men are on average more mathematically minded.
BlairResignationJam_ 7y ago
Computer programming used to be a female dominated job for decades...
osamasbigbro 7y ago
If that is true than the job must have changed overtime to suit the average man over the average woman. Otherwise the average woman would still find the job appealing and would apply for it.
[deleted] 7y ago
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osamasbigbro 7y ago
You ignore the fact that you must be highly qualified to work at Google. These qualifications are earnt by going to university and being good at maths to study engineering or software development. These qualified people are then filtered by their ability to work in the real world.
thebluepool 7y ago
We all need to do whatever we can to end Google's monopoly of the search and browser market. They'll most likely start using them to spread feminist and pc ideology.
Start using a different browser, firefox/tor etc. Start using duckduckgo, disconnect search, etc. Start using the term 'Google' as a synonym for 'search' as often as possible to turn it into a generic trademark.
Do your part.
Liver_Aloan 7y ago
It's also important to note (honestly I don't know if this post said anything about it because I don't have time right now to read the whole thing) that Gizmodo took all the sources out of his memo to make it look like it was just his opinion. This guy sourced all his claims and still was fired for it. Shame on Google.
[deleted] 7y ago
Saw it coming from miles away. Ever try and get "justice" of any kind in corporate America? Ha. The experience is about as black-pill as you can get. I am sure this engineer guy must be 25 or something.
Maybe at some point Google will fade away like Yahoo. But it'll be a while.
grewapair 7y ago
Google makes money when you click on their ads.
Stop clicking on the actual ads. Do the search and copy the link on the ad and paste it into your browser. Google won't make a cent.
Stop supporting this bullshit.
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aa223 7y ago
From the company's perspective they were right to fire him since he didn't fit the company's new image. In fact, they have a right to fire whoever they want if that person doesn't fit the mold according to what the company wants. So I won't fault the company for firing him since business is business and he should have kept his head down unless he has another job lined up. He could have been more anonymous when making this email.
From my perspective, diversity is going to be the deathknell of any industry. With this invading STEM not STEAM and various entertainment industries the quality of the products will suffer as a result. So I will place my hopes on the free market and pray that those men who are discarded for merely having differing viewpoints can create an alternative that will encompass google. In any case, this is what happens when we let diversity of color rather than diversity of thought take over an industry.
thenoblitt 7y ago
No he was fired for violating the code of conduct.
pedal2000 7y ago
Ok... but he basically implied any woman dealing with stress poorly (which happens regularly to both sexes) is "Neuroticism (higher anxiety, lower stress tolerance)."
I don't think he would ever treat women equally or fairly in the workplace if he was interviewing them, in charge of them or dealing with them. An outburst from a woman VS the same outburst from a man would be rationalized away as 'biological differences' that 'she couldn't control'.
His point was lost when he showed he couldn't possibly treat women and men similarly in the workplace.
[deleted] 7y ago
Yeah... he has a phd in systems biology from Harvard. His point that men and woman are different is correct.
He's using the word neuroticism in a purely scientific sense. You are interpreting it from an offensive, non-pragmatic sense. That's why you're slightly offended and believe this is grounds for dismissal.
His point was 100% confirmed when he was fired for thinking differently.
pedal2000 7y ago
Ok, but do you understand why having someone in management who believes that anytime a woman freaks out it is because of biological imperatives that they can't control & therefore are inherently less reliable (but not individually necessarily so) might be an issue for a company trying to hire on merit?
He's basically saying "Women generally are X therefore all women should be treated as though they are Y."
SorbateHead 7y ago
There is an all out effort in progress to neuter and feminize men in western society. Tin foil hat aside...there is an engineered, slow boil weakening and total confusion of society designed to weaken and pussify men into being subservient and submissive to the powers that be when the shit hits the fan.
Google is an evil entity. It is the censorship of what is correct and wholesome for a natural healthy society.
BlairResignationJam_ 7y ago
You believe 9/11 is fake, Clinton is a murderer and there is a Jewish conspiracy to "pussify" men in order to make them submissive when [scary future event] happens
Have you considered seeking therapy?
SorbateHead 7y ago
Wow...what an intelligent come back. You must have learned that completely unoriginal canned response at a liberal university somewhere. So manly and red pill...unless you're a woman, which would make more sense.
Entropy-7 7y ago
There are no "free speech" guarantees at the workplace, particularly at a private company. However, I'm not sure if that is a firing offense, although I don't really know about American employment law and the particulars of his employment contract. Apparently, Google has no concept of the idea of "progressive discipline".
Is there more context about who he circulated the "memo" to and under what circumstances?
markog1999 7y ago
It's not the most well-reasoned or articulated memo I'vee ever read but I don't think it's grounds to fire a dude. Some of what he says about monoculture rings very true; and while his tangents about castrated babys and "left vs right" might be weird, none of this seems malicious. It's just a dude trying to get a word in on the debate. Whether "correct" or not, the guy was well intentioned, and obviously attempting to start a reasonable discussion of the issue, rather than publish a manifesto. But what would i know?
rijoja 7y ago
Had I been employed at Google I'd go straight to my supervisor to quite the moment I read this.
mbillion 7y ago
If I was a woman at google I would be at my supervisors desk telling them I felt discriminated against right after I sent a similar email to HR.
He was fired for basically open up the company to numerous lawsuits
rijoja 7y ago
Good! They have no use for person with such an unscientific mindset. It is abundantly clear that this is a intellectual argument met with emotional arguments. For a technological company with the motto "Don't be evil", firing people on a purely ideological basis is a hypocrisy that undermines the very essence of their public relation profile.