TL;DR- An extensive analysis on the Machiavellianistic implementation of passive/pre-selection sexual strategy, using the manipulation process behind a threesome as it's framework.
"The Machiavellian Approach to Passive Game Manipulation" Part 1
"Fortune is a woman, and if you wish to keep her under it is necessary to beat and ill-use her; and it is seen that she allows herself to be mastered by the adventurous rather than by those who go to work more coldly." -Niccolò Machiavelli
Disclaimer: On Machiavellianistic Amorality
First and foremost, both in comprehension throughout and in commentary below, leave your sense of morality at the door.
Game is amoral. Machiavellianism is amoral. The world is amoral.
Manipulating those around you for your own personal benefit i.e. adopting a psuedo-Machiavellian persona is big part of this strategy.
People will be used, discarded. Your lessers stepped on. Your blue friends manipulated.
Unlike other strategies, a high level of morality will hinder you.
But not unlike one's perceptions and opinions, morality is innately subjective.
Its subjective in that no one will value your sense of moral justice as highly as you.
While I do have some codes of ethics (don't purposefully persue a friend's LTR, etc.), this is still in my own best interest and I would never expect someone to hold my code of ethics to the same level that I do. That level is subjective to me.
That said, anyone that exists outside of my inner circle that is weak or frail enough to be stepped on or over for my own personal betterment, will be. I'd encourage you to adapt this line of mental processing before proceeding forward.
Again, to those who abhor the notions of absolutist or objectivist amorality, this was your warning. This is not the place for you.
A Foreword
The point here is not the story in and of itself.
The point is to understand the importance behind every action taken in the story to improve the sexual strategy or, at the very least, the comprehension of said strategy amongst other RPers.
In light of this, this field report with take a more analytical perspective, abandoning the tongue-and-cheek approach found in previous entries.
Also, this field report will be extensive. VERY extensive. Without a thorough establishment on how context, the implementation of passive strategy and on how motive, mindset, strategies and the end-goals of all characters involved ultimately led to the field reports conclusion, the results inherently become unnecessarily difficult for other RPers to repeat.
On that note, let's begin by defining the key players and how they identify.
The Key Players
The Red Players
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OmLaLa: OP, highest male SMV present at event
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Cam: Natural Alpha (Chad Thundercock), a close friend, non-RP, has a crush on Jill
- Scarlet: Self-Identifying Machiavellian Black Widow (Devil's Daughter), “Open” Marriage to Beta, HB9, highest female SMV present at event
The Blue Players
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Brad: Natural Beta, very low SMV, has a crush on Cindy
- Ben: Chad-ish Beta, low SMV, dating Jill
The Female Players
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Cindy: Bi-Curious mid-CC HB8, ex-girlfriend to Mandy
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Mandy: Bi-Curious mid-CC HB7, ex-girlfriend to Cindy
- Jill: Normal attractive HB9, dating Ben, second most highest female SMV present at event behind Scarlett
Each one of these players played a roles the greater strategy, all roles which will be covered within this field report.
Additional depth will be given to each individual player as they become more relevant to the strategy at play.
Context
Cam and I were recently invited to attend a masquerade style Halloween party.
The party was hosted by one of our wealthier friends.
Roughly 50 people attended the party. Half in their late 20’s to early 30s, the other half over 40 and married, although a fairer portion of these married couples identified as “open”.
Cam's the textbook definition of a Chad: tall with an aloof approach to just about everything.
I enjoy keeping him around because his main social circles consist mainly of attractive women.
Although he’d never openly admit it, Chad follows me around as an attempt to comprehend how “a guy like me” ends up with "girls like that". To learn my secret, as it were.
Cam has a clear height advantage over me (Cam’s ~6’4” to my 6’0”). Given that, judging solely based on physique alone, some might say our SMV is similar. More on this later.
Cindy and Mandy are new to our circle. Both of them identify as quote-unquote “lesbians”, but recently they've gone through an unavoidable rough patch and have since split up.
Neither of them drink, sobriety being an important factor in this field report's conclusion.
Out of the two, Cindy's more attractive, so Cindy was my target.
Jill was Cam’s target, although in all honesty, Jill was out of his league.
Common Flaws of the Natural Alpha
The reason I concluded that Jill is out of Cam’s league is that while Cam understands the importance of male attractiveness, he doesn't seem to grasp the importance of frame control.
While appearance is a prerequisite for a general initiation from women, women will ultimately weigh which of the 4 Ladders to place a man on (The Unworthy, The Beta, The Alpha, or The Unattainable), based upon her judgement of both good traits AND bad. Cam views emotional dependancy on women as a positive trait while most women will generally view such a trait as a weakness of frame or as a sign of scarce mentality.
Another strength of Cam's is his inherently "picky" nature with regards to women he'll actually pursue.
Cam ONLY pursues women who met a strict criteria he's lain out, making the women who don't quite stack up desperately pine for his attention, giving him a constant aura of “pre-selection”.
His deeper fault comes from his knack for appearing too invested when women do meet his criteria.
He tends to cling onto any relationship he has with qualifying women and thus either bores them or scares them off.
What he gets from that -and what he often witnesses- is hot-cold interactions women. Women who fawn over him one day and ignore him/cheat on him the next.
This is because these women are initially drawn into his frame by the pre-sectorial nature he's garnered through the women he's rejected or by admiring his high level of prerequisites any woman must meet in order to become involved with him.
And yet, due to the high levels of emotional attachment he poses, they soon feel betrayed; they're lured in by Alpha tendencies yet ended up with what they perceive to be a beta.
In short, while his passive game is strong, his active game consistently undermines him. He's stuck in a revolving door he doesn't know how to operate.
The truth is, if he simply approached his qualifying women with the same lackluster appeal that he uses with his non-qualifying women, he’d see a much higher success rate. But you can't make a horse drink.
Also, due to these his high protocol female prerequisites in combination with his cling-prone nature, his sexual interactivity is severely limited, occuring in spurts. This in turn has burdened him with a scarce mentality, leading towards additional over-investment, and so on. The Blue Cycle in practice.
His commitment towards monogamy doesn’t benefit him either, considering the women he oft gravitates almost always openly identify as polyamorous, in part due to the circles he typically meets them in (raves, concerts, EDM parties, etc).
But I digress.
The Passive/Pre-Selection Strategy
At the party, the average physique of the women greatly outweighed that of the men.
While some might see the SMV imbalance as a blessing, in some ways it could be seen as a hindrance.
This imbalance can cause a sort-of small-scale replica of the "Local Sexy Single Women (LSSW) Fallacy"; a horde of lower-SMV men pouring out validation, bolstering up the high-SMV women’s already high perception of themselves even higher.
But, all things considered, this shouldn’t necessarily be seen as a roadblock. It should moreso be seen as a need for "cold approach tactition adjustment".
As so, the Passive/Pre-Selection approach was decidly the best sexual strategy for this event.
But how does one go about implementing the PPS approach?
The PPS approach is an inherently passive means at building sexual intrigue, based almost entirely on pre-selection and mystery. On that note, this strategy is best used on people you've just met among people/women who already view your SMV as high. The idea is to get the target woman's perceptions of your SMV to match the perceptions of others who view your SMV highly through via groupthink and the intrigue of the unknown.
In execution, PPS is rather simple. The difficulty lies in the overall comprehension of it; some might see a passive approach as a contradictory ideal, considering it falls subsidiary to "cold approaching", which is almost always considered an very active approach method.
To those of you who might read passive strategy as complex, focus not on the explanation detailing why or how it work.
Focus on the actions being taken. The actions themselves are small, simple and subtle. The complexity of this discussion is for you to fully understand why so subtle an action makes such a strong impression (in part due to women's covert means of communication, but that's another post entirely).
With that said, I will do my best to describe the theory behind passive-approach strategy, describe how it's implemented and address how it's incorporated within the framework of the threesome.
Proceed with an open mind. Some of these concepts ahead might prove difficult for newer members to accurately digest.
”Don’t be the first to address, show interest or even show acknowledgement to high-SMV women. Let them to come to you.”
Higher-SMV women take notice when a high-SMV man isn’t paying them a lick of attention. And when I say not a lick of attention, I mean not even looking in their general direction.
What I’m not implying is that through feigning a cold veneer or appearing bitter or resentful, high-SMV women will flock to you. This could be seen as anti-social, over-compensatory or overtly strategic i.e. tryhard, all of which would ultimately hinder your chances of success. What I am saying is that your body language around your intent ed target should generally communicate disinterest or indifference.
On the implementation of said indifference, I always think of Betty, an overweight Post-Waller who lives nearby.
She has made it perfectly clearly wants to sleep with me. But because I don’t want to sleep with her, nor do I want to unintentionally communicate that I want to sleep with her i.e. Give her the wrong impression or some sense of false hope, I passively avoid looking in her direction, make up BS excuses to cut our conversations short, hold conversations with other women to a higher regard when she’s around, etc.
Not passive-aggressive, just passive. I don't actively avoid Betty, i don't act cold towards Betty nor do I look down on Betty. I'm just passively showing her where she is on my SMV ladder through my actions. I return her interest with disinterest. Nothing more, nothing less.
And while interest hasn't yet been shown by the high SMV woman, your approach towards her should still be one of disinterest in that same vien.
This forces her –the target high-SMV woman- to completely step out of her frame in order to signal any form of IOI to you, making most IOIs at this point very blunt and obvious and making her interests and intentions very clear.
For example (and I’m skipping ahead a bit here), Jill was one of the highest-SMV women at this event. I used the same approach on her that I use almost daily ob Betty; I didnt speak to her but spoke with lesser-SMV women or high-SMV women I'd already met, I didn't look in her direction unless absolutely necessary, and even when we were talking amongst the same group of people, I didn't addressed her as “there”.
After about an hour of passive avoidance, she made up a reason to approach me.
She bluntly asked if she can try my drink, i let her, she sips it, then she started a entire conversation revolving around the intricacies of different types of scotch –something she knew very little about- all while standing barely an inch away from my face, kino abound.
She established sexual tension of her own volition. She didn’t like the feeling of not being desired by the highest-SMV male present (and I mean that with the utmost humility), so she left her frame completely behind in a not-so-subtle attempt to grab my "elusive" attention.
”For her first time stepping out of her frame and into yours, reward her. Hit her hard, then end abruptly.”
This one takes a bit more tact. More… ”finesse”.
When the high-SMV woman does step out of her frame, let her know that you've both noticed it and appreciated it. This will encourage her to do drop frame more often around you. This makes her submissive and vulnerable, which is exactly what you want.
Skipping ahead once more, when Cindy finally approached, I touched her hip, whispered something in her ear (sometging about how “we’re going to have fun tonight”), pulled her hair, kissed her neck, then abruptly stopped, walked away and began talking to Jill.
In doing that, you’re communicate that while you find her attractive, you both have options and force her to acknowledge that fact immediately.
You build off of her insecurities without active acknowledging them. Choosing to talk to high-SMV Jill over the other women there was all but intentional on my part.
All passive, all implied, nothing inherently said.
I didn’t tell her I had options, she saw it. Kind of like setting the stage.
While such a “James Bond-esque” approach isn't vehemently necessary in most cases (I had the added benefit of Macallan 18), the approach must come across as nonchalant. Like you’ve done this before and you'll probably do it when she’s not around.
With this, you're stacking uncertainty on top of her insecurities and her willingness to step out of frame, all without barely saying a word.
Now there’s an establish sense of sexual tension between me and Cindy. Sexual tension is good and gets better the longer it sits idle.
We'll continue this analysis in the next part 2. Until then.
legiggy 9y ago
Omlala, you remind me of Shark.
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Weedwin31 9y ago
Omlala, your writing is great, this could be used for a bunch of things, men, i loved these threads part 1 and part 2, keep it up men
LazyMagus 9y ago
Excellent and detailed post.
But I find a problem with your 'passive' method of attracting. You say you use the same behaviour of ignoring women who you like or don't like. But how does that result in different behaviours from the women in question?
The woman you want to keep away stays away, while the woman you want to attract approaches you. You have exhibited the same physical behaviour for both women.
OmLaLa 9y ago
Part 2 will bring more light to this.
It attracts all women, not just the target. As I've stated in another commebt, it's like a bug light intended for mosquitoes that also attracts moths.
That in turn feeds the pre-selection side of this, which will be covered later.
Zagiggity 9y ago
This will get buried most likely but I want to thank you for explaining things that have remained a mystery to me through the past 8-9 months of swallowing the pill.
If I had a nickel for every time I've approached with the aloof-ness mentioned here (or a successful approach in general) only to be dropped completely days later I'd be a rich Man. A part of me worries about being overboard with IDGAF so I cave my frame and insta-lose.
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OmLaLa 9y ago
Women don’t fuck down i.e. men below their SMV, so if she perceives your SMV to be almost on par with her on, small nudges like these can be all it takes to sleep with her.
Passive game works wonders on attractive women. It's how I've attracted most -if not all- of my high SMV plates, Fine China included.
On the other hand, passive game is a silent killer for women of lower SMV. It's kind of like a bug light you leave on to attract mosquitoes but inadvertantly attracts moths as well. I've had unintentional ONS with HB7s using a passive game meant for HB8s.
I will admit though, as another RPer commented, passive game and passive game manipulation (which will get into in the next post) is best used in smaller groups, crowds and bars. Otherwise, your passiveness gets lost in the white noise.
skamatics 9y ago
Awesome format, enjoyable read. Thx.
sourpuss_ashkenazi 9y ago
So true...4 times in a row I ignored (twice consciously, twice not) the hottest girls in a room and they found excuses to interact with me. I was doing redpill behaviour without realising it (i intuitively understood smv but that was it), but of course I invested in them a la blue pill and they went off me biiiiiiiiig time from 200 interest to 2 over the following weeks.
EmDeeEx14 9y ago
This is one of the most useful threads I've seen in a while. Really shows how the whole "ignoring the blonde" concept works.
OmLaLa 9y ago
The science behind the tactic. It's how I like to operate.
throwaway-aa2 9y ago
Dude you are such a quality poster it's scary. I'm going through all your posts in the next couple of days.
OmLaLa 9y ago
Thank you. I simply attempting to live up to the title I've been given.
RPJapan 9y ago
When I see a topic post by you I click that bad boy asap
Stonish 9y ago
Its actually worth to "save" every time you don't have the time to read at the moment.
OmLaLa 9y ago
True. Posts of this nature can get a bit... dense.
Redasshole 9y ago
your ability to dissect everything is fantastic.
Useless comment to say how much I like your posts.
redpillyoda 9y ago
In what other situations do you recommend such a passive strategy?
This has worked for me before in sausage fest situations where all the guys were around the hot girl, and I wasn't paying her any attention. The only attention she got from me was when I asked to have some of her liquor (it was way better than the rest there) several times. Eventually she came on to me and was on my lap.
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OmLaLa 9y ago
What type of opinion are you looking for exactly? On how I determined I was the highest SMV male that entire time in light of the women's ever changing perceptions that night?
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SeekingTheWay 9y ago
you can present non-looks related while communicating with your friends. women will notice how you behave around people and guess your social status around them pretty accurately.
same with your wealth, which can be mostly observed by the products you use (from clothes you wear to drinks you drink).
so if smv = looks + status + money, she can percieve everything
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OmLaLa 9y ago
What you've quoted was her reward. My interest and a tiny bit of my validation being given to her.
SlappaDaBayssMon 9y ago
I've been waiting for the next A Song of Ice and Fire book for 4 years. I want part two of this post more.
OmLaLa 9y ago
I'm am both flattered by you comment and worried if we'll ever see the release of Winds of Winter.
FrameWalker 9y ago
Really enjoying the writeup. I'd like to extend the protocol for handling the girl when she opens you. In your case you were getting iois and rewarding the behavior. Often times the girl will be unsure about your status so she'll throw out compliance tests and shit tests. While being politely disinterested the winning strategy is noncompliance. You don't tell her your name, you don't hold her drink, and you don't stand up to show her how tall you are. Soon she'll resort to her only weapon that can get your approval: sex.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.6088
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[deleted] 9y ago
your explanation of his explanation of what happened was worse than the original. Then end with a neg which you're in no position to even give.
dr_warlock 9y ago
I liked your observation of Cam because many guys struggle with that. I remember the first time I did it because it was the last time. You have to act like what got her in the first place. She will eventually make subconscious attempts to tame or break you as a shit test not knowing that the final result is an unattractive man of her own making.
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There's always a dominant and a submissive. To what degree and how it's distributed between the two of you is irrelevant. For an intimate action to take place, one most leave their frame and enter the other. There is no equality. A woman does not want equality no matter how hard her facade is. Women enjoy men who build up the tension within them to such a degree that they lose their composure. The threshold may be high (as evidenced by your hour long wait), but afterwards, the reaction is easy to sustain as long as you don't fuck it up such as showing too much excitement upon her entry into your frame. That would be an example of the revolving blue door. Bringing her into your frame only to frighten her out of it with disgust.
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Mainstream doesn't like to think in these terms, but apart of getting a woman is playing on her insecurities. Not with insults and degredation, but with withdrawal or the indirectly suggested potential withdrawal of validation and attention. You pull her strings. She's a puppet that underneath it all, wants a puppeteer. Women base your value on how eager you are to show interest because most if not all their value comes from their bodies so she is sensitive to the validation she receives because of it. She's desparate. Females know this instinctively. If you give off an air of aloofness, not feeling the need to validate as a means to supplicate, this is a sign of abundance, that you do have pre-selection. It's not as powerful as the visual demonstration, but peaks her interest, even just ever so slightly.
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Every man a woman has sex with has induced anxiety within her whether or not they did it intentionally. This is the source of their attraction. Sexual TENSION. Soceity and women have brainwashed you into thinking that sexual attraction just happens. This is true for man, but not for women. For women it's a game and like it or not, you're playing it. You can deny working strategies all you want, but it's to your detriment. Dont ask fish how to catch fish, ask the fisherman. Watch what she does, not what she says.
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Good report /u/OmLala. Looking forward to the next one.
edit: grammar and spelling (mobile entry)
naMlliPdeR 9y ago
Quick question: You're a tall guy at 6'0, but I'm around 6'3, so we might have a similar issue. When you want to seductively whisper something to a girl like you talked about here, what if she's significantly shorter? Do you bend over and break body language to get to her ear? How do you deal with the inherent body language problem of bending over?
OmLaLa 9y ago
Typically I bend down slowly to do it.
When seducing, I tend to put myself out of my body and think of how each action I take is being perceived, making it easier to come across as "smooth", in a sense.
I slow my walking speed, straighten my posture, hold my head higher than normal, shoulders back, slow how quickly I turn my head, smile differently, squint a bit, watch how I hold my glass... I make my every move intentional to some degree.
I also typically dress the part and I try to picture how the ideal "classy man" might interact with women.
It sounds like a lot of effort, but it hasn't failed me so far. That is to say, so long as I haven't drunken too much scotch.
Perception is everything, after all. Especially if you and your target have never met.
naMlliPdeR 9y ago
Funny you say that, I use the exact same technique. Although not sure if this is what you mean, but I put myself in the girl's eyes, and think "would that turn me on".
Sounds kinda gay, but when I do this, I very accurately picture whether I'm turned on or not (being the girl). Case in hand, pretty much everything I've read from endorsed posters pass the "if I was a girl, that would turn me on" test.
OmLaLa 9y ago
Yes something along those lines, but I tend to think of it on a slightly grander scale.
Unstead, I picture a floating camera.
I consider not only how the target would consider my actions, but also the surrounding women.
Although this will be addressed towards the end of this field report, a big part as to why the sexual encounter with Cindy became a threesome was because Mandy was inadvertantly attracted by the passive approach intended for Cindy, so much so that she actually asked Cindy beforehand if she could join, which caused them to fight.
Remember, you’re always being watched, always being judged.
naMlliPdeR 9y ago
Hmm, never thought of that aspect. Very interesting. I see now how I'm missing the bigger picture, and anecdotal evidence from my life very much supports what you are saying.
Thanks for taking your time to write these responses.
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[deleted] 9y ago
Great work.
What's your definition of "cold approach"?
From what I learned, it's not cold approach if you already know her or even if have friends in common. Some say that if you make eye contact and she smiles it's no longer a cold approach, because there was an IOI.
OmLaLa 9y ago
I'd consider cold approaching an attempt to seduce any woman you've never met.
Even considering your parameters given you and the target don't have common friends, passive strategy will still hold true.
Cindy and Mandy had just met my friends at that event. The only thing different in a different setting would be who you manipulate pre-selection through.
thebadmanpuntdbaxter 9y ago
I liked reading the contrast between you and Cam. He doesn't realize it but he is doing the exact same thing on women outside of his criteria, as you do on high SMV women. Thats also more or less why many guys in relationships can seem to have better game. By behaving they starve beautiful women of the attention they expect. This is until they put papa johns on speed dial and funnel mountain dew at the encouragement of their tamer.
This is a better way to teach it to new guys than just saying have an IDGAF attitude. This is the backbone of theory to that strategy. When we tell men to lift, the reason is simple. A strong physique is attractive. When guys are told to just act like they don't give a fuck, the reason behind it is much more ambiguous. Lacking the reactions and treatment that she expects will set you apart from the herd.
RedPharaohRising 9y ago
I went to a party this weekend, as one of the medium to higher smv males. This was a dance party, and I was high smv because talent. It would have been very convenient to have read this post a week ago, as it stands I struck out with the highest smv female at mine. Should have gone passive instead of assertive.
Physio_Tool 9y ago
I've even noticed this on the dance floor. The more nonchalant I act while I'm approaching them (i.e. from the side) the better the response. But If im too forward or too aggressive then they are more likely to blow me off. However the more drunk and DTF the girl is the more likely aggressive dominance approach works to pull them (and more quicker too 5-30 minute pull)
I will say this, in regards to this approach you mention. This depends entirely on context and like you said works best on someone you just met. I'll even go a step further and say it works better in a smaller venue where there's less people. The more people there are, the more likely any passive show of status is likely to be lost in a sea of men (too much stimuli and options). Most likely there s some guy in her life who is in her Number 1 spot right now who could be sliding to the Number 2 spot so she's vetting other suitors, but in all probability she is not going to actively initiate shit with you. That is the behavior of 7's. Girls that are true 8's and 9's will give you proximity and Eye contact at most (if we are talking about your typical Bar/Club venue) so you have to make due with that. Its best to do that by being introduced to them by her friends or someone else.
What you mention is kinda like mystery method stuff but it does work. Talking to people and having them introduce you to their friends and the other way around.
Soriq 9y ago
Top notch as always. Looking forward to part 2.
In terms of being a high SMV male, what are your insights on deciphering whether a target might perceive you as the Alpha, vs Unattainable?
MattyAnon Admin 9y ago
I'd like to see this addressed too, because I'm sure in the past I've overdone the aloof bit when women have shown interest in me.
And it's very hard to get your ego out of this one. "Clearly she didn't want me because she feels she can't have me" type thinking. Die my little male hamster, die!
I'm pretty sure the answer involves some degree of showing interest (not too much), forwards/backwards, teasing, takeaways, jealousy, etc. Definitely not straight out rejection/disinterest. But I know it's something I just don't get right so would value u/omlala 's input too.
OmLaLa 9y ago
Women will typically at least attempt to initiate with Alphas they'd consider Unattainable. The degree of that attempt i.e. how far out of frame she's willing to step normally reveals whether she's placed you on her Alpha or Unattainable ladders.
I had a woman pull me to the side and flat out tell me she wanted to fuck me and i hadn't yet said a word to her. While that level of brashness could be attributed to inebriation, it made it pretty clear that she'd already placed me on her Unattainable ladder and was going for broke.
Beta men are prone to do the same.
In Japan, when a girl in high school is considered Unattainable, the beta man is often known to profess his love in a dramatic fashion i.e. go for broke.
RedPharaohRising 9y ago
How do you assess that you're the highest smv? What are your criteria?
OmLaLa 9y ago
The same criteria commonly discussed on TRP, but I'll take it one step further.
I judge that assessment from the quantity of initiations I received, the degree of which said initiation was conveyed and the range of women conveying it.
Jill only broke frame for my initiation, even going so far as to do it in front of her boyfriend (more on that in the next post).
Honestly speaking, I believe every woman had initiated in some form or fashion, making my assumption fairly reasonable. Scarlet's initiation was a little more self-aware and "calculated", but Scarlet's identifies as both a classical Machiavellian and a Black Widow, so her "method" of approach is understandable. But more on her later.
Scarlet's... like me. A lot like me. It's kind of hot in the most terrifying way possible.
I'm afraid that trying to explain the mind games between a Machiavellian male and female might get too... meta to make into a coherent post.
Thinking about how to coherently explain how manipulation through falsifying kinship through a mutual manipulation of our peers works is making my head spin.
Paid_Internet_Troll 9y ago
This is really well-written. Thanks for taking the time to make the post.
OmLaLa 9y ago
I'm actually glad that others can benefit from my benefits through the manipulation of others. Happy to help.
pdtrading 9y ago
u/OmLaLa I under know means think I have the smv I want, but the way you described Cam is a proceeding problem that I literally just had until I read this FR today. Great job man, it makes me realize that I need to understand Frame much better!!
OmLaLa 9y ago
Any Alpha without a comprehension and utilization of frame control is basically in the same box as Cam i.e. just a well-informed Natural Alpha.
No one can read your mind. Only through demonstration do women react to strong frame. They won't assume you have something they can't inherently witness for themselves, unless of course through pre-selection, but I'm getting ahead of myself.
triperfecta 9y ago
Thank you for the insightful post. Right up my alley. The perfect morning reading as I head out to meet a new plate...late..
OmLaLa 9y ago
Good luck with your new plate, friend.
Joseph_the_Carpenter 9y ago
Excellent post, I'll hold off for questions until part 2.
OmLaLa 9y ago
The next part/2 parts should prove to focus more on the implementation, making for a more "entertaining" read.
Dustin_Bromain 9y ago
This post is one of the most well thought out, articulate pieces of literature that I've ever read on TRP. These are the kinds of posts that should be getting 300+ points; they should be right up there with the 500+ point ragebait posts.
I eagerly await Part 2 with my anticipation levels approaching that of a small child on December the 24th of any given year.
OmLaLa 9y ago
I can honestly say that the entirety of this post will change a lot of RPers perception on high SMV women, passive cold approach and will hopefully make feigning Machiavellianism more feasible.
Dustin_Bromain 9y ago
Excellent. I look forward to it.
[deleted] 9y ago
Great post, looking forward to the next part. With regards to natural alphas, I notice similar characteristics to Cam a lot. Most of the ones I know are great at getting interest from girls, but then they become horribly clingy after a while.
On a different note, you mention the height advantage Cam had over you. However, you're still quite tall. How much of an influence do you find height has on game? At just under 5'7" I suspect that PPS may not work for shorter guys, since you don't stand out in a crowd even if you're well built, and you need to prove your value in other ways. If you have any short friends who game well, or if there are any short TRPers reading this I'd love to hear what works and what doesn't for people who aren't tall.
AlphaMortal 9y ago
I am 5'9", and every one of the guys I go out with is over 6'0'. I can tell you for a fact that PPS does work. Despite the fellas being significantly taller then me, I have the highest SMV and my track record with high value women speaks for its self. You just have to use PPS over time and be patient. Have a long term mentality when establishing your value. Yes, you might not be able to stick out of the crowd immediately, but you can still build value in other ways.
As far as you noticing similarities with Cam, I believe you have formed the wrong conclusion of Cam himself. He is picky and is unattainable to some women. Its with the women that do meet his standards where he drops the ball. He is the one who seems clingy, which lowers his value and women do not want to continue the relationship.
OmLaLa 9y ago
I think height plays a bigger part in Game than some RPers are willing to admit.
Cam doesn't go to the gym nor does he dress what you'd call "well", but because he's taller than the rest of us, he gets more IOIs than I'd assume a shorter guy would get given those same parameters.
I believe there are always traits we have to compensate for to some degree.
I'm black, and so there are certain things I can't do, say or wear with being labeled as "just another scary black guy" right off the bat.
None of us are perfect men nor are we born perfect.
We all must work with the cards we're given.
Instead of calling the Game unfair or complaining about our cards ala MRA or Fems, we recognize flaws in ourselves, the system and the women we pursue, then do what we can given those circumstances.
The only way this could be considered a weakness is through over-compensation i.e. overtly attempting to hide shortcomings in blatant or flashy ways.
[deleted] 9y ago
Fantastic response. I too didn't imagine you as black - perhaps an example of how perception does not reflect reality. Thanks mate.
[deleted] 9y ago
Since you mentioned James Bond - I've just gone ahead and assumed you look exactly like Daniel Craig even though you're probably a lot younger than him.. ah fuk it, im sticking with my current mental description.
Absolutely loved this - proper excited for part 2.
[deleted] 9y ago
[deleted]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.4708
OmLaLa 9y ago
Agreed. There's nothing wrong with admitting a flaw, so long as you're addressing it best you can.
Life for me would be easier if I were white.
That's a fact.
But I'd never blame a failure of strategy implementation on my race.
Cindy and Mandy are skinny cheerleading blondes. Scarlet's half Japanese, Jill's Dominican, Fine China is Blasian.
None of them see my race so long as I avoid communicating an insecurity about my race through my frame.
Same goes for age, height and so forth. It is always a factor, but so long as you accept it, compensate for it to some degree and don't feel ashamed by it, women will ultimately look past it. Trust me.
Also, I believe the word 'compensation' has an unnecessarily negative stigma attached to it. It should only be over-compensation that possesses that stigma.
Compensation is necessary to cope with a somewhat negatively-viewed trait you can't control. Like women and makeup.
naMlliPdeR 9y ago
I super identify with Cam. Most girls I know that I wouldn't sleep with want to sleep with me. The ones I like and show interest to don't... Kinda sucks.
OmLaLa 9y ago
Mind your frame. Understanding frame and putting it into practice are two entirely separate things.
RealRational 9y ago
Great post!
Your Chad friend sounds like my Chad friend, and I mean, EXACTLY like him. Funny how life does that.
ILoveSunflowers 9y ago
The whole post modern BS of "morality is innately subjective" is so very easily refuted. Good advice in here, it's just coming from unjustified premises.
dr_warlock 9y ago
The whole point of his disclaimer was to prevent comments like this.
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ILoveSunflowers 9y ago
And I think it was incorrect
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RedPharaohRising 9y ago
Morality isn't objective. What do you mean?
ILoveSunflowers 9y ago
I mean that objective morals and duties exist and that we can know them.
OmLaLa 9y ago
And what objective morals are those?
Murder? Murder is justified by several societies at varying degrees i.e. subjective to the society the individual is operating within due to different senses of morality.
Theft? Same story. In the West, you’re simply fined and locked up. In other countries you'll be stoned, burned or hung.
Commitment? Well, we already know how that differential in morality plays out.
ILoveSunflowers 9y ago
You're conflating legal theory with morals.
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OmLaLa 9y ago
You're right. It isn't. There is no "globally accepted sense of morality".
If there were, religion would be unified, international trade would be a cakewalk and global business ethics within similar industries would be synonymous.
Outcrys like Foxconn wouldn't happen, because China would hold the same level of ethics as the US. Child soldiers wouldn't exist for the same reason.
Since these things are very prevalent, it goes without saying that morality is very subjective, socially, globally, economically and individualistically.
RedPharaohRising 9y ago
Most of religion and society have similar vmorals because that makes the do unto others...paradigm work safely. The idea behind that concept is only applicable if both parties share a similar sense of righth and wrong. Otherwise the guy whose life you spared rapes your wife and steals your shit.
OmLaLa 9y ago
Which is why both Orthodox Islam and Modern Christianity both support the idea of a One True God, yet Orthodox Islam also openly supports the genocide of inhibitors to the spreading of their faith, while Modern Christianity delves more into the conversion of faith, not overtly justifying murder since the Crusades.
Same basic premise on religion, to very different senses of morality regarding murder.
OmLaLa 9y ago
Support your claim. Don't just call the subjectivity of morality "BS" or claim that it's "so very easily refutable" without providing at least some supporting evidence.
ILoveSunflowers 9y ago
If objective moral principles & obligations do not exist, where does our sense of duty and obligation come from?
[deleted] 9y ago
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ILoveSunflowers 9y ago
"those born into the Nazi Regime under the Third Reich felt completely justified in the genocide of the Jewish people because that was instilled into them"
I would argue, they knew full well that it was immoral, but were complicit or actors in it because of other factors that don't leave them as moral zombies. The Third Reich was run by drug addicted sociopaths, their decisions were probably made with no sense of moral compunction, but those who actually had to carry the orders out, innately were aware of the horror they were committing. They just tried to divorce themselves by making those they were killing less than human first.
I'm not saying people don't have different opinions about moral subjects. Just that their opinions are irrelevant to the objective truth of the matter. And while each moral quandary needs deep understanding of the details involved before a judgment can be made, that doesn't change the fact that objective morals and duties exist. For clarification, it's not that, I do or don't think genocide is wrong, it's that genocide is wrong.
OmLaLa 9y ago
Those acting under the Third Reich acting under the moral believe that they were the "uberman", meant to purge the world of impurities. They believed murder was the best means to do so. As such, they've in turn justified murder under parallel with their morality i.e. genocide/extermination.
Nazi Germany was one of the strongest powers the modern world has ever seen. I guarantee you all of the leaders within weren't all "drug-addicted sociopaths".
And the Nazi people weren't a bunch of brainwashed or deluded people. You're victimizing them. They knew full well what they were supporting was genocide, but they saw the result as beautiful and destined. Supporting Nazism was supporting genocide. You can support a "German World" but cover your eyes to the necessary slaughtering of Jewish people.
Being aware of said "horrors" and thinking of them as horrors are two different things. The soldiers slaughtering Jews in concentration camps took pride in what they were doing for the betterment of their nation. You call them "horrors" because your sense of morality differs from that of Nazi Germany.
If people's opinion on morals differs, then their morals can differ as well. It's really as simple as that. Again, western morality is not global morality. You are coming from a very western moral ideology.
Which is what exactly? Tell me, what is the globally accepted book of morals that all people abide by to the same degree across all nations at all points in history?
You haven't defined these existing "objective morals" at all.
Query, why is genocide wrong? And if it is wrong, why did an entire nation -along with it's allies- support such a decision?
Millions of new-born daughters are slaughtered in China every year just for being female. The Chinese have done that for generations. I promise you, they haven't seen it as immoral.
ILoveSunflowers 9y ago
I never said it was anything codified. You seem to be comitting a category error here. Moral epistemology (how we know which morals actions are what) with moral ontology (their actual existence). I'm not disagreeing that people's morals differ (epistemology), but that ultimately, their opinions are irrelevant to the fact that objective morals and duties exist. (ontology)
Whether the Chinese think slaughtering their young is immoral or not is irrelevant to the fact that it is immoral to slaughter innocent humans.
Also, notice I'm not saying that absolute morals and duties exist, which would be saying that, certain things are always right or always wrong, regardless of the circumstances.
If we do have objective moral duties, then in the various circumstances in which we find ourselves we are morally obligated or forbidden to do various actions, regardless of what we think. It seems like this is the case.
because murder is wrong, and the why did an entire nation do it bit is answered by specifying which nation you mean, because context is important for understanding history, and that is more of a historical question than a moral one.
This is a confusion of universality with objectivity. Universality does not imply objectivity. Universality of a moral code could just be evidence of unanimity of opinion (maybe ingrained into us by evolution). By the same token, objectivity doesn’t imply universality.
Morality is founded in nature itself, in real experiences that affect conscious beings, and where our intentions and the effects of moral actions hold the objective foundation.