Men get married to have sex, women have sex to stay married ~ someone.
Let's face it: women want marriage very much. Yet, so many women can't seem to achieve this once achievable goal. We usually focus on the woman, today we will back up a bit and discuss marriage itself.
Marriage is a universal human institution. Marriage existed throughout history and geography. The exact laws, customs and culture differ from time to time and from place to place. However, marriage itself remains a constant. Today I'd like to ask the fundamental question of:
What IS marriage anyway?
What underlying principles is marriage built upon? What character traits does it take on? Most importantly - what exactly is our current version of marriage?
A sexual union
In a far away land, long long ago, when our ancestors were cavemen - a person had to get married if they wanted to have sex. Once married, they were committed to sexual exclusivity for life.
In this prehistoric, barbaric, backwards era of long long ago, sexual exclusivity meant two things. A negative - to not have sex with anyone else. A positive- to have sex with your spouse.
Once committed to marriage, divorce was extremely difficult and was only allowed in extreme circumstances. In this context of actual lifelong, exclusive commitment, virginity was highly valued. Because it is the only way to achieve actual lifelong exclusivity.
That was long long ago in a far away land, but today we are in current year in your favorite western country. Today you don't need to get married to have sex. Therefore, today, marriage cannot be about sex!
Indeed! In the current zeitgeist of law and culture, nobody owes sex to anyone. You don't even owe sex to your spouse. Therefore, marriage no longer has any relation to sex at all. You may think that it does or feel that it does, but in reality - it doesn't.
Commitment
In a far away land, long long ago, when our ancestors were cavemen - marriage was a lifetime commitment to which you were actually committed to for life!
There are different methods of committing oneself. A vow, a written contract, a verbal agreement, a public ceremony, religious ceremony or in private. The core idea behind it all is the concept of a lifelong commitment.
Adultery had very bad consequences. Exactly how bad depended on the geographic location of your cave, but one thing was for sure - there were consequences for adultery.
Divorce was also very rare and very difficult. You had to have some extraordinary reason to break your sacred commitment.
That was long long ago in a far away land, but today we are in current year in your favorite western country. Today, we no longer believe in antiquated, silly beliefs like lifelong commitment. Today we are only as commitment as our feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelings in the moment. Which brings us to our next point.
Love
In a far away land, long long ago, when our ancestors were cavemen - marriage was primarily a commitment. Love was an outgrowth of living with and giving to each other. Sometimes the love never came, but usually it did. At least to some degree.
Then came the romantics, who made love the foundation of marriage. Boy did that complicate things, but that's a discussion for another day. Today, many people consider love to be the foundation of marriage.
The problem is that love is an emotion and - by definition (look up the root of the word emotion) - emotions are moving parts.
In other words: to build a lifelong marriage on love, is akin to building a house on a conveyer belt. It's impossible. The house will fall apart. Just look around and you'll see it everywhere. Millions of couples who were totally in loooooooove with each other, are divorced within a few short years.
Children and family
In a far away land, long long ago, when our ancestors were cavemen - a person had to get married if they wanted to have children and a family.
That was long long ago in a far away land, but today we are in current year in your favorite western country. Today, we no longer believe in antiquated, silly beliefs of the traditional family. Today there are 826 (and counting) equally valid forms of family structures. You don't need marriage to have children or a family.
Communism for two
In a far away land, long long ago, when our ancestors were cavemen - a woman had to get married if she wanted to be taken care of - for life - by a man.
Because of biology, men want women and women need men. Therefore, if a woman wanted a man to give her what she needs, she had to give him what he wants.
Marriage was a two way street in which men took most of the responsibility for their women. This gave them corresponding authority over said women.
In simpler terms: a man took care of his woman for life, in exchange for exclusive sexual access, household chores, child bearing and child rearing.
That was long long ago in a far away land, but today we are in current year in your favorite western country. Today, we no longer believe in antiquated, silly beliefs of reciprocal relationships. Today we believe that men ought to provide the world to women and expect nothing in return. Today we believe in communism for two.
Today we believe that expecting anything from a woman is toxic masculinity and rape culture. Once again, you personally may not believe this, but that doesn't matter. Because the law and culture do believe it and will force it upon you, whether you like it or not.
Conclusion
So what IS marriage in today's day and age?
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It is not about sex, as you can have sex without marriage and your spouse does not owe you sex.
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It is not about commitment, as we don't believe in that anymore.
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It Is not about vows, as those don't mean shit.
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It is not about love, as you can have love without marriage, marriage without love and you cannot sustain a marriage on love alone.
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It is not about children and family, as you can have those without marriage. Conversely, if you are married, these can be taken away from you at any time.
- It's not about reciprocity, as that is a misogynistic tool of the patriarchy. Besides, a woman can get her communism from a man in other ways. She does not need to be married or stay married to accomplish this.
So what exactly is left of the husk of marriage, other than obligation for the man and benefit for the woman???
Cheers!
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
Ooooh, story time. Take it from 2 old guys(me and polishknight) who got women a long time ago in a land far away... stay the hell away from modern women and never marry one. Your life will be awesome. If you do find a unicorn, you still need to use red pill if you want a successful marriage.
mattyanon TRP Endorsed 2y ago
There are no unicorns, they do not exist.
Marriage corrupts even good women - how could it not? There are no saints.
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
Actually you can teach women the feminist lies and they fall right in line. My wife knows she's the bitch getting cared for for the rest of her life in exchange for making my babies, sucking my dick, and bringing me food. She knows them other bitches are dying alone and working until they're 75. I don't know if anybody has tried this on modern women but I've seen plenty of trad-con women spouting this stuff.
Pedal_Moonpower 2y ago
I recently went trough 'Married man sex life primer' book I also liked author's, summary of today's [book from 2011] marriage.
All about marriage what really will matter in some time [any time after signing up for it] is written in legal act, contract, And that contract can change in future and affect you retrospectively. Here was an example of his grans that got married when bond was for life but then arrived new era and they could split just 'because'.
PS. the book sometimes gave me the feeling that it was softened in certain areas to protect the author couching business, but overall worth reading... Also that is very good book to someone considering marriage. When you read it and see how many hoops you have to jump trough, without warranty of success, you might just rethink and jump the same hoops as a unmarried man.
Also all the vows said in front of priest or 'Elvis impersonator' have the same weight: none. They are only words not written anywhere in contract or law and they have value of paper they are written on. Promise of love to death or sex is non binding.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 2y ago
"Covenants without the sword are mere words" - Thomas Hobbes.
If the government allows (and even incentivizes) one party to break a contract, what good is that contract? None at all.
Side note - Athol Kay's work is excellent, and that isn't his only book. I don't agree with every single word he says, but he is definitely in the top 5 Red Pill writers worth reading.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 2y ago
I'm chuckling because I did get married with an Elvis Impersonator and he was fantastic. A lot better than the church marriages I've seen go under.
In answer to the question, I decided the price for me to have a family was to take the risk that I had a wife who could shaft me over but hopefully I had vetted her for being smart enough to see it was in her best interests to keep me around AND she had some moral integrity to be a decent person. I have little protection under the law and live accordingly. She is aware that she has more to lose than I do by getting rid of me. In arguments we have sometimes I illustrate this to her because as the author says, women NEED men. Men WANT babies and sex but women NEED men to live and for their babies to not be future wards of the state.
So I vetted her carefully. We spent about 2 years in full courtship before tying the knot and for both of our sakes, it took about 4 years before having kids and then, due to health issues (long story), we had to get IVF to have a daughter.
This means that men with half a brain (or more) are going to be gun shy. A Russian woman friend, whom I refer to as "akula" (the Shark), has been married 4 times and tried to take each husband for what they were worth but complains American men are "frightened". Not that it matters much since she's post Wall.
But yes, the fact I had to get IVF says that due to culture, the legal system, and economics that the wall for women is almost like something out of Dickens and Jane Austen: If you want to even think about having a family and properly vet them, add on at least 4 years to allow their inner crazy to come out and then trying for 4 years after that to have kids naturally. So at least 8 years. You want this to work out before the age of 32 or so….
So perhaps age 24 are “eggs best sold by” date to avoid IVF. I married my wife at age 29 after dating for 2 years meeting her at 27.
Red pilled men need to shoot for women in their mid-20’s and beyond that, the casino odds get worse.
Pedal_Moonpower 2y ago
I'd say above mentioned book is good to read for LTR of any kind and keep it in mind [well as any kind of education with the difference that you can work proactively on gaining more knowledge when necessary in pro life and come out good, but getting the knowledge about relationship when it seems too late - cost will probably be too high in time and effort].
Men WANT babies and sex but women NEED men to live and for their babies to not be future wards of the state.
Yeah no sane person wants to live off state... but. You go into professional live, developing, getting the money, first house, car, but then youre getting fucked over by employer / or technology sector you work in, dies. Youre now 33, your parents died, rest of family also dead, no siblings. Shit. On the other hand your parents live 300 y. Well you start over you have pillow to land on. Shit happens show is still on.
Parents that live 300y is state, and although woman doesn't plan to go there well she can explore her options with ease, having pillow to land on and also family pillow, and maybe beta orbiter pillow.
These pillows make you feel safe to jump from 10 storeys.
Once girl I seen mentioned something about single mothers or such... I said [in relation to me sometimes being called daddy], that these women chosen BIG daddy and to live off the income tax charity.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 2y ago
In arguments I had with feminists on the original internet back in the 1990’s, their ideal for how marriage would work was a one way contract. Their argument was that it was a “contract” like how rock stars could sometimes negotiate insane contracts such as the right to not even show up and still get paid or something like that.
And crazily enough, a lot of men I know signed on the dotted line to such a satanic arrangement because they treated women like rock stars.
Their rational was this: “marital rape” is wrong hence a married man deserves no more sexual access to his wife than he would if he was dating her but HIS financial and household burdens are non-negotiable. She can demand he clean out the gutters whether he’s “in the mood” or not.
If she “sacrifices” her career to spend his money watching TV while the kid is in daycare and the maid cleans the home, he should pay her alimony if she gets rid of him. Well, he wants a chance at sex, yes?
They also were planning on a massive welfare state and affirmative action meaning that it was ok if men didn’t marry because they would have Chad’s kid and make the taxpayer or stockholder foot the bill.
I see that in corporate America, the system largely exploits EVERYONE even if they pay lip service to “women in STEM” and women may get paid well, but they are overworked often like the rest of us. Working class women have especially suffered. Feminism’s goal was to make life as easy as possible for upper middle class man-hating shrews or lesbians but that wasn’t much of an accomplishment since those women already have been privileged for the past 2 centuries.
hannulv 2y ago
While I agree with your conclusion, I think your historical understanding of marriage is bullshit. Marriage is a feature of civilization. In caveman days, only 40% of men were successful at having offspring, while 95% of women were. Marriage was not the sacred thing it became later. In the caveman era, most of the women who weren't prostitutes went with the strongest local warlord: Someone with significant resources, who controlled enough people to defend his stuff. This guy might have 8-10 wives (literally "women") pushing out kids, and the women were happy to share him. The risk of branch swinging was the fact that jealous cave Chad might hunt you down and kill you out of jealously. This didn't make things super stable, because so many men were on the sidelines waiting for their shot, and whenever they got one, conflict broke out. Men also routinely threw out women, when they got old, or sufficiently pissed them off. If the woman was young enough, she might be able to find another man, but most of the time she became destitute unless she had a grown son that would care for her. Having a son, not marriage, was the social security of the ancient world. This is especially true, because it was common for girls to find a man as young as 16, and men wouldn't settle until at least 35. So even if the man didn't throw her out, she was going to outlive him by 20-60 years.
Even as marriage became an official thing, most of this model prevailed. Think of ancient near eastern texts like Genesis, which depicts nomadic tribal warlords raising massive herds and coupling with many women and their handmaids, while their servants had no wives.
Marriage was historically never about a man's exclusivity. Exclusivity did not really arise until middle-age Roman Catholicism. Under the Roman system, Men had multiple women, but only their church-sanctioned wives were allowed to produce heirs. Second and third sons were "celibate". While they still had unofficial wives, those children could not inherit. This made the church rich. So if the first son had ten sons, but nine were bastards, and then he and his official son died, the property would pass to the second son (uncle), however the second son was not allowed to have heirs and so the property would pass after his death to the church.
This eventually evolved into a one woman one man courtly-love soulmate thing. But even going back to Holy Roman emperor Charlemagne, he had 6 wives, even though only one was official.
In most of the world's recorded history, the only limit on a man's wives were his resources, or religious prescription. In early Christianity, priests were limited to one wife, and under Islam, men are limited to four. Marriage was a system of economic advantage, it allowed about 60% of the men to marry and procreate provided they could secure the resources to do so. It also provided stern religious curses and penalties for those who would commit adultery and fuck another man's wife.
You can read in the wisdom of Solomon that women were married chattel, and pretty desperate to fuck any young man they could corner, but the penalties were harsh, death or slavery. In Greece, a man that seduced another's wife was subject to being raped with thistles, before his execution.
Civilizations with marriage outperformed civilizations without marriage, because more men were engaged in maximizing their economic output. These civilization were more successful and eventually conquered or absorbed civilizations without protections on marriage. This led to the universal existence of marriage throughout the major civilizations of the world. You can still find remote tribes, though, where marriage is not sacred, and men and women couple and decouple as frequently as they do in the modern west.
mattyanon TRP Endorsed 2y ago
The male provides for the female, even after divorce. This is legally binding.
The female does as she pleases, with zero legally binding obligations.
In short, modern western marriage is a one-sided providership contract.
I think that answers your question, OP.
Also, as Pedal_Moonpower says: the nature of this contract can change over time. Historically (and therefore most likely in the future) this means the male has more obligation and less rights over time. This is enacted against you retrospectively. You don't get the marriage you signed up for, you get the marriage the government and the feminists says you'll have.
Overkill_Engine WAATGM Endorsed 2y ago
Or to make it even shorter: Slavery.