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kevin32 Ambassador for NiceGuys™ 2y ago
Source comments.
[deleted] 2y ago
[--removed--]
kevin32 Ambassador for NiceGuys™ 2y ago
Overall your comment makes good points worthy of more visibility. Awarding you Jr. Hamster Analyst flair.
[deleted] 2y ago
[--removed--]
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 2y ago
Regarding "boring losers": Something to keep in mind is that for a century or more, women and feminists publicly demanded they wanted men to be more reliable, "sensitive", and "honest". and so forth and to wipe out "toxic masculinity" where men act according to his desires without taking what she says seriously.
To succeed at game, men need to adopt certain unnatural, even toxic mindsets including suppressing our natural empathy lest it be used against us while simultaneously simulating desirable emotional responses all without any social support or guidance at least until recently. This mindset increasingly is less of an option to better a man's chances in the ruthless dating marketplace rather than for personal survival.
Back in my father's day in the 1950's, he passed my mother's "shit test" by looking up her name in the phone book (she didn't give him her number). That was it. The "boring" guys of today were considered super catches back then. Imagine a dystopian culture (no need to imagine, we're living in it) that regards the same men that we, including most women, admire in hindsight but yet mock in contemporary times. Let's call it what it is: Mass mental illness. To live and function in a sick culture, particularly navigating on one's own, induces a continual sense of dread and feeling that "something is wrong".
Boar_excrement Jr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Krishnamurti
I am completely out of the dating market. I prefer my sanity and mental health versus disingenuous love and companionship.
SpiritualEnema Jr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
I always appreciate your input. Very well thought out. It is definitely a form of mass mental illness, and it’s spreading into every aspect of our lives. People say that money is the foundation of western life, it’s more than that though, it’s trust that’s the foundation of the western world. That trust in our institutions, civic organizations, and social clubs and ultimately each other has been eroding for decades. It’s only a matter of time before it all collapses now. Ironically it’s the universities that seem to be sowing the most discord in our institutions and way of life in general. They used to be the foundation of a healthy democracy, not it seems like they may be hastening the demise. You know the courses, the grievance studies majors.
Ironically I just got banned from r/datingoverthirty for saying that if women want traditional men they should be traditional women. This comment was apparently hate speech and I was banned and muted from replying to the moderators without a warning.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 2y ago
Thanks. I got a comment yanked there as well and didn't go back. But there's a minor problem today with women who are traditional trying to find traditional men: What we define as "traditional" today has been a series of waves of feminist entitlements. The concept of a woman sitting around waiting to get asked out and then lavished with free food and entertainment while he tries to get into her pants would have gotten the couple pilloried 120 years ago. That model peaked in the 1950's due to a post WWII boom of men with good jobs, women who stayed home, and a lack of reliable contraceptive options meaning no pre-marital/engagement sex for most. It's funny when the man on The Bachelor awkwardly asks one of the 3 fathers of the girls he's banging for her "hand in marriage" when such a tradition hailed from an era when the man courted the girl under the roof the whole time and her family fed him where they could keep an eye on him.
If traditional women can't go back to that particular slice of 'traditionalism', men are in the same boat: We can't just ask for workplaces that aggressively recruit men as primary providers for a family, for a culture that doesn't get men fired for "harassment" for chatting a woman up to ask her out, and so on. We're told "Well, things are different now so adapt" and that's the truth. A traditional man can't unilaterally ask for the 1950's back and neither can they. Successful men in the dating culture know that if he doesn't have pre-marital sex with her, she may friendzone him and women who claim that they're "traditional" are often engaging in just another shit-test. Like you said, there has to be "trust" and that's largely gone now.
But then again... for truly traditional women, their 20's are still full of opportunity if they can avoid "modernity" as in the 1950's definition of dating that is now obsolete. It's just going back to true traditionalism. I think that if I wrote that, carefully, on that subreddit I might not get banned provided I avoided their "trigger" words. Even 30 something women can find men if they simply put in the same level-of-effort that women 120 years ago engaged but would be considered "desperate" by today's standards.
Another family tale: My grandmother back in the late 1920's had a sister who broke off an engagement with a guy so... she grabbed him. Basically, she grabbed her sister's leftover guy. That was what "traditional" women did back then.
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
I would like to add a few more feminist notes to this discussion. The first one is the thesis of Esther Vilar in "The Manipilated Man" that marriage is immoral, men are slaves and are being oppressed by women, and it's our own damn fault for letting it happen. Some of the strategies described in her book are:
Controlling men by the judicious use of praise, sex, and emotional blackmail once they have been lured
She then goes on to posit that we should wise up(thank you red pill and feminism) and flip the script. This appears to be happening. She then has a second thesis in "The Polygamous male: A man's right to the other woman" that if we wise up and flip the script, women will lose all their power and men will become polygamous. This is basically plate theory and all of red pill theory.
Her final thesis is that men should feel guilty about polygamy because it deprives other men of reproduction. I think she gets this wrong. We can just do what we've been doing for thousands of years: sharing the hoes for polygamy and not sharing the housewives. Exclusive relationship with non-exclusive sex. Red Pill theory hasn't gotten this far but those of us who live the reality are quite pleased with it.
It's quite shocking that she predicted all of this back in the 1970s. It's also interesting to see the blowback towards guys like Fresh and Fit when they say that high value men are entitled to polygamy. I know Rollo disagrees but if you look at female strategy, it is entirely dependent upon exclusive sex.
Anyway, to tie back into the original post and what @polishknight said about a societal mental illness that exploits men through their innate altruism towards women and children, we really need to understand that red pill theory is highly advanced and has been developed over decades. There is so much more to it than money+muscle+game. It's a way of life that's better for men. It's a replacement for the old system of slavery. We need to teach the whole thing from beginning to end so guys can get the whole picture.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 2y ago
What's funny about the strategies above is that they largely don’t require much effort other than a woman being young and passive. It’s like (young) women just put a bucket on a boat and wait for the fish to jump in. This works because women naturally don’t want to ask men out (laziness/risk avoidance) and cultural momentum. But… one flaw is that it doesn’t work on alpha bucks and chads for obvious reasons. The above strategy worked well on betas thought which, up until recently, suited most women fine.
The key failure then, to this strategy, is that it worked so well that women find the betas they and their modern feminism produced to be repulsive and the “bad boys” unworkable. It’s all our fault, of course (wink. Joke. Not a violation of rule 1).
I view polygamy to be actually only a small prize for the truly successful man. I know chads who married women whose families were LOADED. One’s wife’s family owns half of the real estate in Alexandria. To paraphrase a popular saying: It’s just as easy to marry a rich, pretty woman as it is to sleep with 100’s of poor, pretty women.
Oh, if I were Chad I could have a field day: Post a profile demanding a woman be pretty AND loaded and “generous.” My wife gave me the stink eye the other day when I pointed out a friend of hers who works 60 hour weeks to be a successful career woman can enjoy the same success men do: To provide for a hot, and fun spouse. She looked at me as if her head had exploded. To basically have success and not share it with your spouse says “I love my job, but not the person I want to love me.” Basically, such women are modern day scrooges.
The next level of game for successful men isn’t polygamy but cashing in. That’s what the Patriarchy should be about: The women working and giving the men her earnings. As God Meant all along.
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
Oh I put my wife to work as soon as the kids were old enough for school but she was more valuable raising my progeny before that. As her SMV plummets and her parents need care, she will be off to help them and I will take a new wife which is a retired hoe in her 30s. By the time the new wife's SMV plummets I'll be 70 and nearly off to the grave, if I even live that long. Hell if I'm 70 and plugging a hot 50yr old I'll probably be the talk of the town, lol. Obviously I'll still have the 18yr old prostitutes occasionally.
So then I'm not going to let the 30yr old new wife stop working. Nope. She's going to provide an income stream. Whether it's selling her butthole pics on onlyfans or working her career. Not having kids. All her money goes into the family bucket and I reinvest it to make more. She's there to provide me sex and money and in return she gets to be cared for after her SMV goes to zero. You can see how there's actually a place for these leftover, post-wall, CC riders. They're good at sex. They can work. They can trade that for security with an older gentleman that extends into their old age. I don't care if they cheat as long as I get all the sex I want. There's no paternity issue.
So cashing in has many avenues. The pretty rich woman has hypergamy working against her and so does the man who marries her. The average wage old slut with an older wealthier man has hypergamy working for her.
Oddest-One-Here Jr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
Even if they don't admit it out loud, women know they SHOULD want to settle down with a good man that loves and treats her well as provide for her, but the problem is that good men are like good healthy food, good for you but they don't produce the cravings like the Chad processed food full of carbs and sugars does.
The best chance is for her to start off eating good food/dating good guys, but even if she does the right thing, we live in a poisonous society that promotes the consumption of Chads/Junk Food including toxic friends who slowly but surely encourage her that she needs to live a little and experience the CC for herself.
Intrepid_Place53900 2y ago
(women know they should want to settle down with a good man,etc)
Yes, true, but today, she's had casual sex with how many chad's? Good guys, who are willing to LTR her, just don't give her the tingles.
Many of these girls, admit to a strategy of hooking up with hot guys, hoping that one of them keeps her around. I"ve called them out on it and there response is, I deserve a hot guy, I'm not gonna settle for avg, why bother? they dont' have to, they can at least have sex and a casual relationship with a hot guy. I mean, that sums up about all you need to know.
Now, when this girl "eventually" decides to settle and rationalizes it , post 30, I feel for her guy for sure. She'll no doubt be a nasty bitch to her guy with a dry sand like vagina that he gets to visit star fish like, once a month maybe. Don't be that guy.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 2y ago
"why bother?"
It's an interesting question and one I'm going to have to answer for my growing daughter. It's tough to explain the merits of "settling", but here's my 10th draft on the parent lecture I have ready for her as a teenager:
Eventually, everyone HAS to settle. When a girl is young and hot, she can at least bang a hot guy and that’s great but she’ll get old someday. If she has kids, the kid is going to be his or her own individual and you can’t shove your expectations onto them without harming them. We have aging friends and relatives we care for. It’s both a burden, and a blessing, to love imperfect people. Once you go past your prime, and mortality means everyone has a prime, other people will view being with YOU as settling.
There are exceptions to this such as (male) celebrities, but for most, particularly women, “settling” means locking in a relationship long term at her current value. It’s like a mental freezer. On Facebook, I see couples post their wedding photos from 20 years ago and to that person, in their mind that spouse is still the person that walked down the aisle. A couple whose 50 years old sees in their minds’ eye their spouse as 25 years old. But dating for middle aged women means that the guy sees her as a 50 year old AND projects from her wrinkles what she’s going to look like in literally a decade and it (literally again) ain’t pretty.
I remember falling in love with a 50 year old MILF when I was 30. In hindsight, I’m glad she annoyed the heck out of me and we broke up because I checked in on her via friends when she was 60 and it like she fell apart after her warranty expiration. As men age and learn about life and see what happens to their friends and relatives, they can project what women are going to look like in just a decade.
Someone wrote a great article about how modern society has lost family wisdom givers who used to advise young women of this Essential Truth.
Intrepid_Place53900 2y ago
Glad you are preparing yourself.
(eventually everyone has to settle).
I totally disagree with it, it's not factual. Why?
these women who think they are "settling", they aren't. Sure, they've been having (relationships, or casual) sex with hot guys. Well, none of them were willing to commit to her long term it seems. Why?
So, she eventually finds a guy who's good looking, but he's not jacked with a 6 pack like the guys I"m used to. but, he's a keeper, great RMV,etc. And, most of all, he commits to her.
Did she settle? No, she came down the SMV ladder just a bit and found a guy who matched her well. I think most guys are getting brainwashed into (she) settled, no she didn't, she was playing out of her league. Guys can't do that, girls can. Does that make them special? No
Many of these girls are obviously going higher on the SMV ladder and some go way high, like 6 girls trying to lock up 9 guys, ain't gonna happen.
Like you said, she can bang a hot guy, that's great but now what. some girls take longer to realize that the guys were never really going to commit to them, they are just having fun with her. Some know it, hope one will stick and in the meantime, they enjoy it. Don't end up with these girls for sure.
I'm glad I don't have daughters today, not sure I could handle it. Good luck man.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 2y ago
I concur. I was only using their vernacular of “settling” to illustrate a point.
I’m chuckling that raising a daughter is a bit easier for me. After all, most of the problems of women in our culture are self-inflicted or them following the popular culture. Every day I think ahead to when she’s going to be a teenager and discipline and educate her accordingly. At age 6, she simply doesn’t understand bigger concepts yet so I spend most of my time listening to her experiences so I can relate to her later and retain her trust. I encourage her to think independently as to inoculate her against a cultural hive mind that will try to suck her in.
A son would be more of a challenge in that as I know from my own redpill awakening, life as a man in this culture is tough. HGH therapy might cost me $2000/year (after I get it sourced from Poland) but if it gave him an additional 6 inches in height, that would matter greatly in his career and personal prospects. I’d have him take swim and basketball classes because that also helps stretching as well as Karate to develop an aggressive mindset.
My child, regardless of gender, is being read to each night by me but when she’s able, I’ll have a reading list of red pill and other books for summer as well as learning annex in body language and social skills, volunteering with the elderly at nursing homes (to contribute to the community but also appreciate their wisdom and experiences) and so on.
My blue pilled relatives, on the other hand, tried to pressure me into just throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars into private schools. Nothing wrong with that (apart from the finances) but it effectively outsources their parenting. I want my daughter to see the world and for me to be there to mentor her through it, not just pay off trying to hide it from her.
Intrepid_Place53900 2y ago
With the kids today, as soon as social media comes into play, that's when everything goes to hell. Saw a bit of it with my sons, can't imagine what it does to the girls from bullying, peer pressure, sex,etc, that's what you got to keep a look out on. Keep the phones away as long as possible and monitor that thing. They have apps now that the icons look like a calculator or benign things and it's a social media, tik tok thing so the parents don't know,etc. crazy.
HGH, know parents who did this with their kids, who seem to have health problems. Growing the body large than it was designed to be, it's gonna cause issues, so glad you didn't have to even contemplate it. My sons, taught them the old fashioned way, hit the gym. They aren't 6 foot 2, so tough, life is not perfect.
You need to educate them yourself, so true , glad you are doing this. Whatever they are taught in private or public school is usually skewed toward communist , (group think) shit. Have to admit though, the private schools were sooo much better and just teaching and keeping all that woke shit out of it.
My kids are all done with that, thankfully, good luck on your journey through it, looks like you got a good handle on it. In the end, we can only try to teach our kids, show them the way, it's up to them to take the right path and figure it out themselves.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 2y ago
If you don't mind me asking, could you elaborate on what you mean by "seem to have health problems" attributable to HGH injections of children for growth purposes? It's moot for me at this point, but I'm curious as to anecdotal observations of people who actually went through with it.
Intrepid_Place53900 2y ago
Even prior to the covid (items), ahem.
the kids we knew who were taking HGH and likely "other" things, had a lot of heart related issues, joint (knee/hip) and mental health.
the mental health I contribute to the parents, very likely putting pressure on the kids in sports.
the heart/joint issues, they were playing sports and taking stuff they shouldn't have been on. it made sense to me.
[deleted]
Loneliness-inc LvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 2y ago
@moorekom @Typo-MAGAshiv @kevin32
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 2y ago
Loneliness,
I'm going to remove this comment because it violates Rule 1.
I think that you are describing the popular definition of beta for your definition of cuck. Putting any emphasis on any of these definitions is fruitless most of the times since these definitions are highly subjective based on the time, society, pop culture and the person who is describing it.
Personally, I use these terms to indicate what women like and do not. An ideal man, to a woman, is a man who has both these qualities and exhibits them at the right time and at the right amount. Some of this correlates with the Alpha bucks category and as we know, that category is the highly sought after one for commitment. But, an Alpha bucks does not always equal the ideal man and some women are man eaters and no man can really satisfy them (notice: Brad Pitt & Angelina Jolie).
Alpha fucks strategies work because there is no need for security with women anymore and they want as much excitement and validation as possible. Beta bucks strategies do not work since women do not have a necessity for resources through men as they used to and this filter primarily by who arouse them. The disregard and the disgust reserved for beta men stems from the fact that these men do not arouse these women and do not invoke any respect in them.
None of these qualifications or descriptions mean anything when it comes to being a good husband or a good father. Alpha bucks men often are too busy to be either. The level of success they have at home is inversely proportional to the level of success they have in other venues that they choose to concentrate on. Likewise, there is nothing to say that beta bucks men will make good husbands or fathers by default or that alpha fucks men cannot be.
All this said, we do not want to sanctify beta men as flawless beings. The reason we have Rule 1 is to make sure that men get the respect they deserve and that people concentrate on the source of the issues we concentrate on: piss poor dating strategies of women and how they fail at dual mating strategy.
Men are not above criticism. But women are so favored that any problems they might have gets dumped on men as their fault. We do not want to entertain that. A beta man is not born supplicating to women. He is brought up to behind that way. As you very well know and expressed in many of your posts, we want to concentrate on the gynocentric order and the issues it brings in the context of dating. We do not want to shift the conversations to be about men.
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 2y ago
@kevin32.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 2y ago
I'm not even a fan of any of this Greek letter garbage. It's only really useful as shorthand for alpha = arousal, beta = comfort. These aren't absolute states of being, but rather traits that all men have in varying quantities, and can cultivate more of.
Anything else (such as leadership, supplication, whatever) is useless.
And don't even get me started on that retarded "sigma male" bullshit.
CC: @loneliness-Inc
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 2y ago
Agreed. You know my view on this. Arousal, attraction and comfort are often confused.
Not really. Leadership is useful, but the nuance that does not gets considered is that everyone is a situational alpha. A fire fighter will be clueless in a wall street fire sale, a CEO will get his ass kicked in a martial arts tournament, a martial arts master will lose out to an astro physicist.
Introverted leaders exist. Flamboyant leaders exist. Leadership is not one size fits all. People are not set on their behavior at all times.
Loneliness-inc LvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 2y ago
I agree with this.
Your point here actually strengthens my point regarding "beta" males. How they (these traits) are what's best for marriage and how they have enough alpha traits in them to be sexually attractive to women.
It's just that they can never be exhilarating and thrilling without also being destructive.
Therefore, a woman who keeps chasing alpha cock is like a drug addict. It's a flaw in her character.
Loneliness-inc LvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 2y ago
I hear you. No worries. I'll need to articulate it properly and put it into a properly written and rewritten post - if and when I have the time to do so...
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 2y ago
Ha. It's getting busy. I'll look forward to the post.
Loneliness-inc LvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 2y ago
Hopefully, I should be able to do it sometime soon.
I'm assuming that I should post it to WATGMA
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 2y ago
Yes, please. And post it to Reddit waatgm.
UpsideDB Sr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
They're fighting time in two ways. First they've got their own age and all the issues that come with that. Fading looks, fading fertility, increasing obesity, higher chance of single motherhood and all that fun stuff.
They're also fighting against men's age. By 35 guys tend to have their own life. They've settled into their habits, their ass groove. Their hormones have calmed down so they can see pros and cons more clearly. And they're also just older so they're probably not as willing to settle down and have kids. With the relationship years, the marriage, and then the kid they're looking at their kid graduating when they're around 60. That's more intimidating and difficult than raising kids in their younger years. Anyone that doesn't have a strong drive to have kids is going to be looking at the trade offs required. All the things they'll have to give up when they've got less time, when they've got a destructive toddler running around the house.
And the biggest blow is that older guys are going to have plenty of friends and family that have gone through bad relationships, divorce, family court. All that "fun" stuff. Many of them will have experienced it first hand. They're going to have seen how bullshit "till death do us part" is. They're going to see the consequences of what happens when someone gets bored with a relationship. The kind of guys women want are going to be more cautious and slower to commit than they were in their 20s. Women are more impatient and desperate for commitment in their older years. They'll get frustrated that guys "aren't willing to commit" because they don' have the time or want to put in the extra effort older guys are going to need to commit. They'll end up confirming to the older guys exactly why they should keep things slow.
TLDR; Older omen have less to offer, more impatient, more desperate. Older guys are more cautious, slow and defensive. It's a double whammy for women looking for a serious relationship with children later in life.
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 2y ago
Men are not intimidated by having to raise children in their older years. The limiting factor is who they choose to do that with. Older men tend to go for younger women for these reasons and others, because they are not in a hurry, are more easy going, are less demanding and can be more pleasing than older women. Older women have to significantly up their age range to get any commitment or they will have to look for beta men whom they don't want to be with.
Intrepid_Place53900 2y ago
(men are not intimidated by having to raise children in their older years)
As an old man, Yes the hell I am. ;)
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 2y ago
Are you intimidated or do you just find it tedious? There is a difference.
Intrepid_Place53900 2y ago
I had my last son at 40, now almost 60
it's tough raising kids, if you actually are going to spend time with them and raise them. It's a lot of sacrifice, a lot of time, a lot of effort, money too.
So, having kids in your 40's is tough, starting in your 50's, that's nuts to me, but IMO.
So, Intimidated, no, would I want to or would I recommend it, also no. I think early 40's is the cutoff, you want to have the kids out of school before you hit 60, I mean, damn, you want to be able to retire and enjoy life a bit too.
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 2y ago
The overall point here is that the word intimidating is not how most men look at it. Trying to run from a lion that just ate a guy is intimidating. Trying to raise a kid in your old age is not intimidating. Yes, it can be annoying. It can be tedious. It can be challenging. But most men do not find it intimidating. I don't like seeing this propaganda spread.