The "Sydney Morning Herald" (Australia) published this TEN (!) years ago.
I like the use of the term "Naomi" to describe a woman willing to settle down early.
https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/why-women-lose-the-dating-game-20120421-1xdn0.html
Naomi sat in the back row of Melbourne's Grattan Institute, about to watch her fiance give a lecture. She was joined by three unfamiliar women - all attractive, well groomed, in their mid-30s. From their whispered chat, she quickly realised they weren't there to hear about politics and economics but to meet her eligible man. Naomi explains: ''He's 36 years old and is definitely someone who falls into the alpha-male category: excellent job in finance, PhD, high income, six feet two, sporty and very handsome. And he's an utter sweetheart.''
Naomi is an attractive 28-year-old PhD student. She has been in a relationship with her fiance for six years. Her new companions were very friendly and chatted to her during the break. But then her partner, who had been socialising at the front of the room, made eye contact with Naomi and smiled.
Playing the dating game
''The women saw this and it was like the room had suddenly frozen over. There was silence and then one of them asked me if I knew him. I wasn't going to lie, so I told them he was my partner and how long we'd been together. It was amazing how they responded. They stopped smiling at me, shifted awkwardly in their seats and looked me up and down as if they were trying to figure out how a girl who still wears jeans and ballet flats could land a guy like that.'' The women left before her man gave his speech.
Naomi is stunned by the number of women in their 30s who throw themselves at her partner: the colleagues who sign emails with kisses; the female journalist who pointedly asked, post-interview, if he was married. Yet given the plight of thirtysomething women seeking partners, it's hardly surprising that her boyfriend is in their sights.
We hear endless complaints from women about the lack of good men.
Women astonished that men don't seem to be around when they decide it is time to settle down. Women telling men to ''man up'' and stop shying away from commitment.
But there is another conversation going on - a fascinating exchange about what is happening from the male point of view. Much of it thrives on the internet, in the so-called ''manosphere''. Here you will find men cheerfully, even triumphantly, blogging about their experience. They have cause for celebration, you see. They've discovered a profound change has taken place in the mating game and, to their surprise, they are the winners.
Dalrock (dalrock.wordpress.com) is typical: ''Today's unmarried twentysomething women have given men an ultimatum: I'll marry when I'm ready, take it or leave it. This is, of course, their right. But ultimatums are a risky thing, because there is always a possibility the other side will decide to leave it. In the next decade we will witness the end result of this game of marriage chicken.''
The endgame Dalrock warns about is already in play for hordes of unmarried professional women - the well-coiffed lawyers, bankers and other success stories. Many thought they could put off marriage and families until their 30s, having devoted their 20s to education, establishing careers and playing the field. But was their decade of dating a strategic mistake?
Jamie, a 30-year-old Sydney barrister, thinks so: ''Women labour under the impression they can have it all. They can have the career, this carefree lifestyle and then, at the snap of their fingers, because they are so fabulous, find a man. But if they wait until their 30s they're competing with women who are much younger and in various ways more attractive.''
The crisis for single women in this age group seeking a mate is very real. Almost one in three women aged 30 to 34 and a quarter of late-30s women do not have a partner, according to the 2006 census statistics. And this is a growing problem. The number of partnerless women in their 30s has almost doubled since 1986.
The challenge is greatest for high-achieving women in their 30s looking for equally successful men. Analysis of 2006 census figures by the Monash University sociologist, Genevieve Heard, reveals that almost one in four of degree-educated women in their 30s will miss out on a man of similar age and educational achievement. There were only 68,000 unattached graduate men in their 30s for 88,000 single graduate women in the same age group.
The 30s are worrying years for high-achieving women who long for marriage and children - of course, not all do - as they face their rapidly closing reproductive window surrounded by men who see no rush to settle down
And the higher-education gap keeps widening. In the past year, the proportion of degree-educated women aged 25 to 34 rose from 37.7 per cent to 40.3 per cent, according to the Bureau of Statistics, while for males the figure remained below 30 per cent, having risen only 0.5 per cent in the past year.
Although there are similar numbers of single men and women in their 30s overall - about 370,000 of each across Australia - half these available men had only high school education, 57 per cent earned $42,000 or less and 95,000 of them were unemployed.
The high expectations of professional women are a big part of the story. Many high-achieving women simply are not interested in Mr Average, says Justin Parfitt, the owner of Australia's fastest growing speed-dating organisation, Fast Impressions. Parfitt adds: ''They've swallowed the L'Oreal line: 'Because you're worth it!' There's a real sense of entitlement.''
He finds many of his female members are determined to meet only men who are tall, attractive, wealthy and well educated. They want the alpha males. ''Most of the professional women rarely give out 'yes' votes to men who aren't similarly successful,'' reports Parfitt, who struggles to attract enough of these successful men to his speed-dating events. Sixty per cent of his members are female. Most are over 30.
During their 20s, women compete for the most highly desirable men, the Mr Bigs. Many will readily share a bed with the sporty, attractive, confident men, while ordinary men miss out. As Whiskey puts it at whiskeysplace.wordpress.com: ''Joe Average Beta Male is about as desirable to women as a cold bowl of oatmeal.''
Data from American colleges show 20 per cent of males - the most attractive ones - get 80 per cent of the sex, according to an analysis by Susan Walsh, a former management consultant who wrote about the issue on her dating website, hookingupsmart.com.
That leaves a lot of beta men spending their 20s out in the cold. Greg, a 38-year-old writer from Melbourne, started adult life shy and lonely. ''In my 20s, the women had the total upper hand. They could make or break you with one look in a club or bar. They had the choice of men, sex was on tap and guys like me went home alone, red-faced, defeated and embarrassed. The girls only wanted to go for the cool guys, good looks, outgoing personalities, money, sporty types, the kind of guys who owned the room, while us quiet ones got ignored.''
He barely had a date through much of his 20s and gave up on women. But then he spent time overseas, gained more confidence, learnt how to dress well and hit his early 30s. ''I suddenly started to get asked out by women, aged 19 through to 40. The floodgates burst open for me. I actually dated five women at once, amazing my flatmates by often bedding three to four of my casual dates each week. It is a great time as a male in your 30s, when you start getting more female attention and sex than you could ever have dreamt of in your 20s.''
That's when some men start behaving very badly - as the manosphere clearly shows. These internet sites are not for the faint-hearted. The voices are often crude and misogynist. But they tell it as they see it. There is Greenlander, an apparently successful engineer in his late 30s. In his early adult life, he was unable to ''get the time of day from women''. Now he's interested only in women under 27.
''The women I know in their early 30s are just delusional,'' he says. ''I sometimes seduce them and sleep with them just because I know how to play them so well. It's just too easy. They're tired of the cock carousel and they see a guy like me as the perfect beta to settle down with before their eggs dry out … when I get tired of them I just delete their numbers from my cell phone and stop taking their calls … It doesn't really hurt them that much: at this point they're used to pump & dump!''
It's easy to dismiss such bile but Greenlander's analysis is echoed by many Australian singles, both male and female.
''It's wall-to-wall arseholes out there,'' reports Penny, a 31-year-old lawyer. She is stunned by how hard it is to meet suitable men willing to commit. ''I'm horrified by the number of gorgeous, independent and successful women my age who can't meet a decent man.''
Penny acknowledges part of the problem is her own expectations - that her generation of women was brought up wanting too much. ''We were told we were special, we could do anything and the world was our oyster.'' And having spent her 20s dating alpha males, she expected them to be still around when she finally decided to get serious.
But these men go fast, many fishing outside their pond. The most attractive, successful men can take their pick from women their own age or from the Naomis, the younger women who are happy to settle early. Almost one in three degree-educated 35-year-old men marries or lives with women aged 30 or under, according to income, housing and marriage surveys by the Bureau of Statistics.
''I can't believe how many men my age are only interested in younger women,'' wails Gail, a 34-year-old advertising executive as she describes her first search through men's profiles on the RSVP internet dating site. She is shocked to find many mid-30s men have set up their profiles to refuse mail from women their own age.
Talking to many women like her, it's intriguing how many look back on past relationships where they let good men get away because they weren't ready. American journalist Kate Bolick wrote recently in The Atlantic about breaking off her three-year relationship with a man she described as ''intelligent, good-looking, loyal and kind''. She acknowledged ''there was no good reason to end things'', yet, at the time, she was convinced something was missing in the relationship. That was 11 years ago. She's is now 39 and facing grim choices.
''We arrived at the top of the staircase,'' Bolick wrote, ''finally ready to start our lives, only to discover a cavernous room at the tail end of a party, most of the men gone already, some having never shown up - and those who remain are leering by the cheese table, or are, you know, the ones you don't want to go out with.''
So, many women are missing out on their fairytale ending - their assumption that when the time was right the dream man would be waiting. The 30s are worrying years for high-achieving women who long for marriage and children - of course, not all do - as they face their rapidly closing reproductive window surrounded by men who see no rush to settle down.
And, of course, many women eventually do find a mate, often ending up with divorced men. There are complications with that second-marriage market, in which men come complete with former wives and children. That was never part of the plan.
Many really struggle with the fact that they aren't in a position to be too choosy. American author Lori Gottlieb gives a painfully honest account of that process in her book Marry Him: The Case for Settling for Mr Good Enough.
''Maybe we need to get over ourselves,'' she writes. The 40-year-old single mother enlisted a team of advisers who helped her realise that while she was conducting her long search for the perfect man - Prince Charming or nobody - her market value had dropped through the floor.
''Our generation of women is constantly told to have high self-esteem, but it seems that the women themselves are at risk of ego-tripping themselves out of romantic connection,'' she writes. She acknowledges she made a mistake not looking for a spouse in her 20s, when she was at her most desirable. She advises thirtysomething women to look for Mr Good Enough before they have even less choice. ''They are with an '8' but they want a '10'. But then suddenly they're 40 and can only get a '5'!''
Women delaying their search for a serious relationship have set up a very different dating and marriage market. The Sydney barrister, Jamie, finds himself spoilt for choice. Like many of his friends he's finding women actively pursuing him, asking him out, cooking him elaborate meals, buying him presents. ''Oh, you're a barrister,'' they say.
While many of his mates are playing the field, determined to enjoy this unexpected attention, Jamie is ready to settle down. He's very wary of Sex and the City types, women who are convinced they are so special, but he's confident he will soon find someone with her feet on the ground.
''I'm lucky,'' he says, ''to be in a buyer's market.''
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 2y ago Stickied
Excellent find, @chunky. For future reference (and this is for everyone, not just OP), we strongly prefer an archived link of the article, like so: https://archive.ph/mvEmM.
This is for several reasons:
1) in case it gets taken down or edited later,
2) it deprives awful, leftist/feminist/woke garbage sites of clicks and ad revenue, and
3) though copying and pasting the article into your post probably seemed like a good solution, our detractors might accuse us of fudging the content, especially if the original article gets edited later. The archived link prevents that.
Anyway, moderator-administrative shit's done; onto some commentary!
(Which I'll edit in after few minutes; RL beckons)From your post:
From the article:
I had this whole rant typed up about how 28 is not early and is right at the Epiphany Phase for most women, and this one is just lucky enough to stick the landing, and how 100 years ago, she'd have been considered an old maid. but then I went back and saw something I'd previously overlooked:
Oops. Well, good for her! Good for him! 22 is definitely early, especially in this day and age.
to any lurking women: if you can't find any men to commit to you, here are the factors at play:
1) you likely aren't commitment-worthy,
2) your standards are likely too high and/or too narrow,
3) more and more men are waking up to what a shitty deal marriage is.
No amount of attempted shaming or manipulation will change that.
Dalrock should be near the top of any Red Pilled man's reading list. The only blogger I enjoyed more was Roissy/Heartiste.
His predictions and analyses have proven incredibly accurate over the years, including the one quoted in this article.
to any lurking women: most men don't give two shits about your career.
It's gotten even worse in the ten years since this article was originally published.
Thanks to affirmative action and quotas.
Thanks to all the programs encouraging girls and young women to pursue higher education (even when utterly useless) and careers, while boys and young men receive no encouragement, and if anything, are told that ambition is part of "toxic masculinity".
A) I'd forgotten that they were writing about the 80/20 rule even back then.
B) Susan Walsh, lololol. She used to correspond with Dalrock all the time, and he'd gently prove her wrong, but she'd usually miss what he taught and learn nothing.
Her correspondence with Rollo Tomassi was far less cordial, and Rollo would verbally eviscerate her, yet she still couldn't admit to being wrong.
I forgot when she took the blog down, but maybe she finally realized that HUSsies wasn't just a clever nickname Rollo gave her readers, but really was what she was teaching these young women to become.
LOL, "waaaaaaahh!"
Man, there's so much more, but I don't want my comment to end up longer than the original article, and I really need to get back to RL.
chunky 2y ago
Thank you, Typo-MAGAshiv. I'll bear in mind the desirability of archiving, going forward.
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 2y ago
Two different flavors, but they are both essential reading.
No man gives a shit about a woman's career. Some can't or won't be frank about it.
Oddest-One-Here Jr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
Dalrock has loads of archived content worth reading and the comments are also worth checking out too.
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 2y ago
I've read all his posts. Haven't read any of the comments.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 2y ago
His comments section was how I first found out about our sub!
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 2y ago
Ha! If time permits, I might go ahead and read some. I just don't want to go through a comment system that is flat structured. Moreover, he had a habit of highlighting good comments and making posts about it as follow-ups. I don't think there is a necessity to go through the comments.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 2y ago
It was very hit-and-miss, like most comments sections.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 2y ago
Some dudes actually are into the whole "power couple" thing. Hell, look at Triple H and Stephanie McMahon.
inevitableowl1 Sr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
That relationship got him a far more successful career than he would have got (and, indeed, deserved) had he not been in it
And then the exec role afterwards. Again, had he not been in that relationship he would probably have ended up an alcoholic and addicted to pain meds like many of his friends and mentors
Sure they play the power couple thing but he had his eyes on the prize and took it. And remember she only had her high powered role due to nepotism as well. So she isn’t a typical hard nosed boss bitch who had to fight and grind to get into that kind of exec role. And certainly wasn’t when they got together anyway
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 2y ago
Good points.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 2y ago
But, even if all true (and as far as I know, they are), none of it negates the fact that some men care about a woman's career, and Triple H is an example.
There are exceptions to everything, which is why I rarely say "always" or "never" or "all" or "none".
Only a Sith deals in absolutes!
Tag @inevitableowl1
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 2y ago
I was originally going to reply with "Statistically negligible", but his comment was more in detail.
Sure, men don't mind an intelligent and/or accomplished woman. We just prefer it in other aspects other than masculine pursuits. A woman has to intelligent enough to be your second-in-command. But she does not have to be the female equivalent of Bill Gates.
There are house husbands and men who are bottoms who look for dominant women. Again, they are not the majority.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 2y ago
I never said they were. I simply pointed out that they exist, which means your statement of:
...just Isn't true.
Again, that's why I try to avoid "all-or-none" type statements, and stick to generalities.
"In general, men don't care about women's careers" is a true statement.
"There does not exist one man who cares about his woman's career" just isn't true.
Oddest-One-Here Jr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
The fundamental truth is that (assuming they don't become single mothers first), women these days only begin to look for high quality good men to marry well after they reach spinster age.
Vermillion-Rx Penchant for plastic dolls 2y ago
This article reminds of the psychological marshmallow experiment. The experimenter says to child participants "do you want one marshmallow right now, or two in 15 minutes?"
The child is left to think about their choice while the experimenter leaves with the marshmallow in front of them. Most kids eat it without a second thought.
This article reminds me of women wanting it all right now instead of cultivating something worth more that requires some self-discipline and long-term planning.
Most women are like most of the kids in this experiment. All they want is the Chad dick in front of their face, most don't give a fuck that they could get something more worthwhile if they delayed their immediate gratification and put in the effort.
It's comedic justice though how men get to choose in their 30s though. Women reap what they sow
UpsideDB Sr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
My ex sister in law waited until her early 30s to live the early 20s she "never had". She'd been with my brother since high school. Maybe 2 years before the separation her friends had started getting divorced. I'm pretty sure as they realized their mistake they tried to drag their other friends down with them so they wouldn't regret it as much. They poisoned my SIL and brought her down with them.
Now they're not able to live any kind of fun life. They've all got kids to deal with and custody stuff to work around. None of them got alimony (judges in the area I grew up in rarely give it thankfully) so they have to work 40+ hour weeks to pay their own way. They're going back to school to try to earn more (nurses, medical receptionists, phlebotomists and such) which takes up all their free time not working or watching kids. They can't have girls nights out anymore because they always had brother in laws and other guys to be their DD and handle them when they get a bit too drunk (I really didn't mind, they bought so much bar food and would barely pick at it, I got it all!).
They torpedoed their lives because they had told each other they'd have more fun right now if they threw away everything they had. Only one of them actually had a crappy husband (I call him meat head, guy is so stupid I got half an afternoon's worth of entertainment watching him try to put up a mailbox before my brother stepped in to help). The rest had good guys with good careers.
The need for instant gratification, "exciting" things to post to social media, new dicks they'd never experienced before got to them and destroyed their lives. They're all older, fatter, and have more baggage than they had when they were when they met their husbands. Now they're competing with all the other single mothers out there for guys their age who are more reserved, cautious, informed, and less hormone driven than the last time they played the dating game. All because the toxic echobox they're surrounded by says they can do better.
My ex-SIL will never do better than my brother. He's a really good, sweet man that tried so hard for her. He even bought her the house on the lake she had wanted since she was a teenager. He's not the tallest guy, or the most handsome guy, but he lives a very comfortable life with a long term stable source of income from his successful businesses. He's a fantastic father and just an excellent person in general.
Instead women are more interested in trash like me because I'm tall, thin, better looking, and have all my hair. He's in significantly better shape than me. They'll sleep with me in the back of a Walmart parking lot before they'll look at someone like him. I spent 5 years as an "address-impaired" alcoholic living in my vehicle and still had significantly more responses and better luck meeting women than he does. Good guys are trying to entice women with a steak dinner later tonight but instead women pick McDonalds right now.. They'll ruin their appetite with trash like me and won't be interested when dinner comes around.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 2y ago
Your brother's story reminds me of my cousin. He's always had a pot belly but otherwise, he's handsome: 6'3", blonde, blue eyes, looks NOTHING like his adoptive mother. He's a bank manager and makes good money and he married a woman whose also a bank manager with her having a pot belly as well, but she was Asian. So it was like he married his sister, in a sense, if his sister was Asian.
What's strange is that she got a 10 year itch (and 2 sons) and decided "she can do better". IMO, she never was higher than a 6 but I suppose she could get attention at bars. The divorce hurt my cousin but he moved on and about 3 years later, he married a young Asian woman who was basically a tradeup from his ex-wife: younger, prettier, pleasant disposition.
I managed to find the ex's facebook page via my nephews links and she married a new guy who looks remarkably like my cousin: A nice guy, but he was in his 50's and no more attractive than my cousin. I suppose she gave up at some point and just got a new guy because he was "new".
On a fantastic analysis page of the men's/women's attractiveness chart, the guy running the data through R tool found that women in their late 30's and early 40's hit a hormonal kick or "last call" where they want sex with hot guys. During that period, they may want to date men younger or hotter and for that brief window, they ride a CC and then realize that their options are poor, and they get back on track. But the problem is that many of them can't just magically remarry then since they're entering a marriage dating market in their late 40's.
Vermillion-Rx Penchant for plastic dolls 2y ago
This anecdote is incredibly sad. As much as a enjoy seeing a carousel rider crash and burn, I'm not really enjoying what happened to your brother as collateral.
This story is actually sad af. I hope your brother is doing much better now
UpsideDB Sr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
Wish I could say he's doing well but he rebounded to a single mother. Now she lives in the house with him. The baby daddy moved in too. He won't even talk to me or my partner about it any more because we have a full on "What the fuck are you doing?!" view of the whole thing and have made it clear that we think he's being taken advantage of. He knows how much we hate her and her baby daddy.
We're doing what we can to try to help him/save him but we're at the point that he has to help himself. We'll be in town visiting family sometime this summer, hoping to make a bit more progress talking to him in person.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 2y ago
You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved.
Sucks.
Vermillion-Rx Penchant for plastic dolls 2y ago
This story was so much worse than I thought. Letting the man who fucked her raw live in his home?
Jesus fucking Christ. That's a nightmare
UpsideDB Sr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
Neither of them pay rent either. Baby daddy didn't even have a job last time I got my brother to give me any information (we're really close but he doesn't like to talk to me about this situation because I cannot be even the least bit supportive). The only things I can see him getting out of it is he always has in-home child care for my niece. They keep the house clean, sometimes have food on the table when he gets home. He owns a few businesses and tends to work a lot so that definitely helps. At least they do the bare minimum of not trashing the place like I've seen other guys in the single mother situation.
The rest of the situation seems like absolute garbage people taking advantage of my brother.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 2y ago
Your story is very similar to one of our regulars on that other site.
Is that you? Your username is fairly similar as well, but I'd like to be sure.
UpsideDB Sr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
Used to frequent the other site and post, but I'd rather reply here now with my slightly different name. Bans are being handed out left and right for the dumbest shit and people on WAATGM makes for a pretty big target. I use that one more for defending mens rights, and this one for shittalking.
I've made a few posts showing the story above in the past. It's still super frustrating. She was a really good friend of mine, I trusted her. Never thought she would pull something like that and it really made me far more wary of women's games. She broke a piece of me and sent me straight redpill. Her betrayal made me a bit more bitter in life.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 2y ago
Customizing flairs here is a bit of a pain, so no rathberry thpritzer for now, but let's at least get you your Senior Hamster Analyst flair.
hornetsfalcons12 Sr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
I mentioned this to my friend a few weeks ago. The single most miserable demographic of women that I tried to date in my 30’s were highly educated professionals in their mid to late 30’s. They simply can’t comprehend a world where they aren’t the prize.
Often times other things are going wrong. Like they have student debt, they’re being on retirement, they can’t afford a home (seems like a lot of them can’t afford a home, nice education that you received there). Also, while they were 6-7’s back in their 20’s and early 30’s, they’re 4’s now. It’s an alien world for them.
Vermillion-Rx Penchant for plastic dolls 2y ago
I think a lot of them actually believe their value is supposed to go up. Afterall, they see men with great careers shoot into the stratosphere valuewise (unless they are pure betabux)
I think a lot of women misconstrue male value increases as something they can experience as well
Additionally, I think a lot of women assume that if they are really high in the business world that other similar men will like them because they're in the same earnings and statis circle and what almost all of them fail to realize is that it doesn't attract men.
A beautiful, feminine cashier is a lot more desireable than a similarly physical attractive woman with 8 years of school debt, a type A work attitude, and years of experience bossing around underlings
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 2y ago
A century or so ago, women had two options which we are finding are largely the same today due to women's hypergamous nature:
A) Being young and pretty which is less about working to be "successful" rather than just not ruining themselves. Don't get tattoos, face piercings, and a bossy attitude. They're basically like cakes: they are cooked and ready at a certain age and then they need to be grabbed before the expiration date.
And that's why many women back a century ago were terrified of being "spinsters". They had no plan B for if they weren't picked up and most women, despite (or because) of all the resources today, don't have a better option.
B) What many men do today is what women a half century ago regarded as beneath them: Learning to please their partners. Say a woman who learned to cook and clean and please her man is mocked by women today, and even back then, as "submissive" and "a doormat". Listen to the song "Nancy Wilson: Wives and Lovers" Learning how to read body language, manners, social approaches, charming people, all essential elements of game requires an intense amount of personal discomfort and growing pains and women a half century ago decided they didn't want to do that anymore. They would play the passive-aggressive waiting game or use sex to demand men take up that chore.
The consequences of using sex to demand men make sophisticated approaches means that they are approached mainly by men who will deceive or "use" them or men who make awkward approaches (which is unattractive.)
These women's lives aren't over by 30 by any means, but it just means work. I'm reminded of the joke where a man goes to the doctor because his wife asked him to and the doctor tells him: "Ok, you're overweight, out of shape, but if you do the following, you can live a long life: Eat healthy, work out, be more pleasant to people around you and reduce stress and stop drinking." His wife asks him what the doctor says and he responds: "He says I'm going to die soon."
hornetsfalcons12 Sr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
All facts.
The other thing is the social circle phenomenon. Think about it: if you’re a career chaser woman, and you have classic male signals of value (MBA, $200k+ a year job, etc), the odds are that you don’t even know men making $60k a year. They’re not someone that you come across on a regular basis. Your male acquaintances are mostly high value guys. And it’s true that in the modern day, people are increasingly marrying within their socioeconomic class. So for them, their dating pool is those men, and they think that the dating pool for those men are the women like them. But instead, it’s the women like them, AND the younger women, AND the less affluent women.
They don’t understand that they’re in that level of competition for the men. And they don’t understand that while they may determine a high value man is “not good enough” for them, there’s still a lineup of women who would be more than happy to be with that man. And the better rated the guy, the more women he has to choose from.
Ironically, though, their subconscious knows this. It’s why they’ll put so much effort into trying to look as young and beautiful as they can. They know, deep down, that men want beautiful women. Not career women.
Vermillion-Rx Penchant for plastic dolls 2y ago
I wanted to reply with words, but this diagram will do more justice than anything I could respond with:
https://9gag.com/gag/a43591A
hornetsfalcons12 Sr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
Yup. They ultimately want a winner, not to win themselves.
I found an interesting study from germany by Guiping Liu and Andres Vikat, studying first marriages in Sweden from 1981-1998. Long story short, the higher the income share of the couple by the wife, the higher the risk of divorce. And this is in one of the most gender egalitarian countries on earth. A woman making 80% or more of a household’s income was over 2.1x as likely to divorce as one making 20% or less, and 39% more likely as one where the two people earn roughly the same. We see it as men; a man who wouldn’t get the time of day from a “professional woman” with “standards” would be fought over by women of equitable physical beauty from a third world nation. For those women, the man represents a massive upgrade; for the high earning woman, not so much.
Vermillion-Rx Penchant for plastic dolls 2y ago
Their mentality and goals backfire on them too, cause they only really end up being a side-piece for these high value men.
If that's their goal than more power to these women but I know it's not. They just end up childless while these high value men work rotations
I don't think many get the commitment they are looking for from this long term plan they employ
hornetsfalcons12 Sr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
Yup. Only one woman gets to be the wife. And she holds that title for as long as she wants it. The meme of the guy who tells his side piece that he’ll totally leave his wife and kids soon is a meme for a reason; they get strung along because high value guy still loves his wife and kids, just wants a secondary hole to fill up on nights where his wife isn’t feeling it. If she’s making $300k a year, that probably doesn’t impress the man making $500k a year.
Revoh 2y ago
Quoting Nelson from the Simpsons: "HA HA!"
DextroShade 2y ago
You made your bed ladies, now you have to lay in it, alone. A lot of these used-up hoes are going to end up homeless, and they will deserve it.
MelkorHimself Mod 2y ago
This is pretty striking even from 2006 when dating sites were few and far between. This period was the tail end of what I call the Wild West internet. The women covered by these stats were born no later than 1976, and it was already this bad.
PoopBeast Jr. Hamster Analyst 2y ago
"The challenge is greatest for high-achieving women in their 30s looking for equally successful men. Analysis of 2006 census figures by the Monash University sociologist, Genevieve Heard, reveals that almost one in four of degree-educated women in their 30s will miss out on a man of similar age and educational achievement."
I have a question; When women talk about their demand for similar "educational achievement" like this, what are they really talking about exactly? Is this a euphemism they use for a man with money so that they don't have to sound shallow by saying "I want a man who makes as much or more than me"?
It amazes me how causally this is thrown out there in so many articles/interviews/etc and never questioned. Look at the quote; it's just taken for granted that "of course it's reasonable that women find men with lower college attainment undesirable...", this article even unabashedly refers to this as "missing out". No one ever questions or bats an eye at it. Does this not bother/confuse anyone else?
In my experience, most men only want college credentialing ("credentialing", not education. They're different...) as a means to an end, and that end is to make more money. Women talk about college credentialing as though it is the "end". Before you all say it's just a euphemism for money so that the woman doesn't sound like a gold-digging whore, do you think these women would be just as satisfied with a guy who makes good money without as good or better a college degree than she has herself? I'm not so sure...
LolTroll11 2y ago
I think it's also about the clout, the social status that's brought upon by a man's profession. She is dating a doctor vs she's dating a plumber. Whatever has more bragging rights. Women are much more herdish than men.
I have noticed that women's group has a big impact on how she sees a man. Groupthink is strong in them. Their opinion has a massive shift because of their group's bias. And I don't think this is limited to how they see men only, but probably everything. Which I think is retarded because what's the possibility of a handful of women being mostly correct ? Very low, a group of 5 to 6 people would be taking wrong decisions all the time because there's only so much they can know.
wswZtyqNGQ 2y ago
Male groups naturally form a structure of authority. This can be violent since men naturally desire to dominate, but handled well this quickly leads to a "loose confederation" where each man's rights are protected. This is efficient and rational, though potentially unstable in the short term.
Female groups naturally form a structure of conformity. This takes more time to establish and is very inefficient since each each woman's rights are suppressed. This is inherently irrational and leads to cultist behaviors which are devastating to every member in the long term.
Consider: have you ever heard of a cult that was not mostly women? I don't think history has any examples of a male only cult. Therefore: women exclusively create cults.
Feminism is a decentralized cult. Each gaggle of women enforces the sexual preferences of its members to conform to the irrational demands of its group-think. All the cost-less virtue signalling about "college credentialing" (when it's obviously all bullshit) is the expression of this cult mentality.
wswZtyqNGQ 2y ago
"Educational achievement" is feminist cult-speak for "social power." Women will drool over a college flunk-out CEO or musician while sneering at a nerd-maxed physicist PhD. Women desire to dominate socially power men to use as a trophy to demonstrate their own social power.
Cults always have their own language. Sure, it's useful as a way to signal identity in a heterogeneous society, but it's real goal is to better shape the group-think of the members to be easier to conform and control. The nice part is that you can use their own words to get more out of them than you would otherwise. Try it the next time you see a cult feminist.
Also note that this obsession with "educational achievement" as a social signal (semiotics) has nothing to do with men per se, or even with what these women think that men want; it is entirely about with what these women think how other women will look at them once they've snatched the "educationally achieved" men. Women deeply fear what other women would do to them if they're found dating a plumber.
LolTroll11 2y ago
Tells you how low confident and neurotic most women are. I've been there, when I used to fear what people might think of me. And it's hell. You are never you, but something people want to see. Compared to now, I can play the most weird music and feel the joy it brings me.
And that makes me realise, most women aren't that different from shy nerds that can't get laid. They're just hotter so we treat them better.
chunky 2y ago
Education is often about money, but it's also about status, which women also care about. Even though a plumber might make more than a doctor, the doctor has a higher status in society. Women will often compete with one another by comparing the status of their men.
LolTroll11 2y ago
I find that one very funny. Entire movement about feminism, girl boss and stong independent women. And still, monkey brain do the monkey brain.
TriumphoftheSwill 2y ago
Listen up ladies.
Men don't care about your job and, as long as you're not a parasite and can support yourself, they don't care how much money you make. They don't care if you have an office or not and they don't care about titles. Educations don't matter as much as you think. They aren't impressed by any of this.
For all those things you supposedly worked so hard for and put yourself in debt to learn, men only care about two things
They care about how you look and they don't want you to bring stress to their lives. That's it.
Looks aren't as impossible as you think. Men are much more forgiving than you think. The rule is Don't. Be. Fat. That's not even superficial. Men don't want a fat woman because it shows a lack of self respect, laziness and a host of personality defects. Don't Be Fat is rule number one.
The second one is just as important. I understand sometimes life can be hard and you need to let it out but your man isn't your punching bag. Stop complaining, bitching, gaslighting, accusing, threatening and otherwise making his life miserable. You don't even have to be Mrs. Cleaver, just be his friend. Make him laugh, be a comfort and make him smile. That's it.
All I've said is more important than all the time you've put into your education. I've saved you hundreds of thousands of dollars. Men would rather have a sweet, comforting, not fat woman with no degrees than a college educated, complaining, criticizing, superior, fat woman. It's that easy.
aldabruzzo No busted Pillsbury biscuit cans 2y ago
Good post.
I'll say it again.
Here's how any woman can get a man.
Be nice. Be pretty. Don't get fat. Be available.
That's it. That's all you have to do.
Don't be a bitch. Look reasonably good and put together. Don't be a landwhale. Don't be so busy you have no time for a man.
Intrepid_Place53900 2y ago
well, I think there's a lot to be said for your post, but TBH there's more.
No debt Gives great head makes good sammiches
I think would cover a lot more guys requirements
aldabruzzo No busted Pillsbury biscuit cans 2y ago
That's "how to keep a man"
I wrote about "how to get (attract) a man".
TriumphoftheSwill 2y ago
Right. It's not even hard to be good looking. With all the makeup and body altering clothes women invest in even ugly women can look hot as hell. Hard to hide being fat though. The game is so easy for women and still they complain it's not fair.
Be nice. Don't be fight. Enjoy a life of luxury.
aldabruzzo No busted Pillsbury biscuit cans 2y ago
I'm about ready to do a series on this.
SeasonedRP 2y ago
The article suggests to women that they should commit when they are young if they want to find a good man and not be like the women described in the article. I don't disagree with that. But I'll add that many, many women who do commit to a good man when they are young screw it up by the time they reach their 30s. They are bored with their husbands after having kids with him (happens to all women), but unlike in former generations, they have single friends and friends getting divorced or who are divorced, and are bombarded with propaganda telling them they can do better. So many of them make the leap and blow up what could have been a decent marriage and later regret it. As the article details, dating is no picnic for women in their 30s or older. But they only see the upside and think about what they want right now. Women's proclivity to get bored in marriage has been known since ancient times. The Old Testament references "discontented women." But until the 1970s or so, society didn't encourage those proclivities.
StatisticsJason 2y ago
I saw this happen firsthand with my mother. She divorced my dad in 1975 when I was a young boy. I remember her talking to one of her girlfriends on the phone saying she was going to find a rich man. That is not how it turned out.
The first men my mom dated (she was in her mid 30s at time of her divorce and still attractive) were decent, likeable guys but all middle class like my dad. She did manage to have a younger (27 year old) stud rugby player boyfriend for awhile. He was a smart guy, eventually became a lawyer.
In her late 30s the quality of men my mom dated went down. From middle class to working class. They were getting scarier too. One of her boyfriends stole our TV to support his heroin addiction. He was the most extreme case, although she dated many blue collar heavy beer drinkers. Many is a key word. She was dating several men at the same time, would bring home random men from the bar etc. She picked me up at the airport, I was home after visiting relatives, the guy sitting next to me on the plane introduced himself and before I knew it my mom took him home with us for a quickie. This was circa 1979 and it did seem there was a lot more sex going on among singles than today...it was sort of that innocent time right after the sexual revolution where hypergamy (or the AIDS scare) didn't kick in yet and there was tons of casual sex, although I'm sure my mom had an unusually high amount of it, even for that time period.
By the time my mom hit her 40s she dated a LOT less. She had one boyfriend for a couple of years. A married bartender who was married eight (8) times before. Her last boyfriend in her late 40s/early 50s was also married and a scary looking dude. Wouldn't be surprised if he had a criminal past. So she never quite did find that rich prince she expected to when she divorced. In the end my dad was the best man she ever had.