One of the reasons that I am not married today is because I tried to set spiritual and moral boundaries with women I wanted marry, but those boundaries were rejected. The purpose of the boundaries was to get the woman to be suitable for a marriage designed to serve God. In every case, the relationships ended. And this is actually becoming more common, under the influence of feminism.
Here is an article from The Federalist, written by Kylee Griswold. She writes:
Who would have thought perpetual adolescent Jonah Hill would be good at grown-up relationships? Well, he is, judging by some apparent texts his surfer ex-girlfriend Sarah Brady shared to Instagram over the weekend — despite the out-of-control media screeching to the contrary.
[...]According to Brady and the TikTokkers, self-proclaimed therapists, media, and fellow thirst-trappers who came to her defense, Hill is a controlling narcissist and misogynist — all for the crime of allegedly asking his then-girlfriend to please put on some clothes.
So, a man told a woman that he was interested in that he proposed certain rules in the relationship, rules that would allow him to get serious, and point the relationship towards commitment (as you'll see). But the woman, and all of her supportive allies, from the secular left to the religious right, all agreed with her that a man setting boundaries on a woman to make her safe for a marriage commitment is "emotional abuse".
More:
Specifically, Hill laid down some boundaries for his partner:
[...]Plain and simple: If you need: Surfing with men[,] Boundaryless inappropriate friendships with men[,] to model[,] to post pictures of yourself in a bathing suit[,] to post sexual pictures[,] friendships with women who are in unstable places and from your wild recent past beyond getting a lunch or coffee or something respectful[,] I am not the right partner for you. If these things bring you to a place of happiness I support it and there will be no hard feelings. These are my boundaries for romantic partnership.
Hill’s detractors say this is “emotional abuse.” But can something really be described as “abuse” if the alleged perpetrator tells you “no hard feelings” if you’d rather walk away than agree to the terms?
Feminism has made it a lot harder for men to set boundaries that will orient women towards marriage. No matter how wise the man, and how good the advice, it must all be rejected. But the demands for men to get married to rebels remain. Especially when the feminists are hitting 35, and their friends are all getting married. They feel entitled to marriage, and how dare men tell them no? Many women today don't want to hear a man talk about the Bible or hear a man talk about right and wrong, they just want weddings, wedding rings, vacations, and things to be fixed around the house. It would be better if men were just walking ATMs that didn't talk at all.
More:
To protect the health and integrity of his relationship, Hill established reasonable and respectable parameters for how his girlfriend was to behave toward him through how she acted toward other men. Don’t sexualize yourself for other guys or engage in other relationship-compromising behaviors. And he made clear how he would respond if she didn’t respect those limits. I’m not the right man for you.
In my cases, my boundaries were always things that were clearly good for the women, and also good for commitment. For example, I might say "stop spending money on travel, get a private sector job in your field, and pay off your student loans". But these conditions were rejected. Later on, when the woman reached her early 30s, I would get e-mails about wanting to get back together. But the student loans had only increased, and the resumes now had huge gaps. I can only assume that the body counts had also increased from all the "traveling". No thanks, I said. No thank you. I can do something more productive than bail women out. I especially don't want to bail women out who have no respect for men who know how to lead.
This behavior of calling moral and spiritual leadership "emotional abuse" and "controlling" is common - even in Christian circles - because of feminism. In general, the only acceptable male roles are "protect and provide". Men are supposed to take on all the accountability, but with none of the authority to defend the truth, or to defend morality. On any topic. For example, if you try to tell a single woman in her late 20s about infertility, it's "emotional abuse". No amount of evidence can ever beat "follow your heart". And she has legions of supporters who will shame you for trying to argue from scientific studies.
If you think I am mean, then read Kylee:
Enter feminism, which loves female autonomy and sold women lots of lies about it. Feminism said love yourself. If that means wreaking all kinds of havoc, your second “X” chromosome trumps the consequences. Unrestrained sex and unintended pregnancy? Abort the baby. Not happy in your marriage? Divorce him. Unfulfilled at home? Leave the kids with an underpaid immigrant and climb that corporate ladder. No boundaries. No bonds. No bras.
But news flash: Relationships take two. And sadly, thanks to that third-wave wrecking ball, some dating women need to be told some obvious things when it comes to romantic fidelity, even if those things have to come from their partners: Seeking the approval of other men for how you look is a bad idea. Worse, it communicates lots of bad things about your priorities and desires.
Frankly, a man who’s willing to say that tough thing is probably a man worth holding onto. Thanks in part to “toxic masculinity” messaging and the militant feminization of America, a man who shoots for commitment and faithfulness, and communicates those aims in a straightforward way while proposing an amicable split as the alternative, is a rarity.
Oh, how I love those words. Sadly, Kylee's view is in the minority today, thanks to feminism. And if men are not allowed to lead a relationship, then the marriage rate will continue to decline. Neither shaming of men nor blaming of men will cause men to accept marriage without leadership.
For more on this topic, I recommend this excellent article by Mark McDonald, M.D., entitled "Why American Women Are Undatable" The subtitle is "No One Wants to Play with a Porcupine". Indeed not.
Source: https://winteryknight.com/2023/07/14/should-men-marry-women-who-think-relationship-boundaries-are-emotional-abuse/
LolTroll11 1y ago
Imagine a man saying that. The women would explode with rage, or pettiness I guess.
I think this is also true for fatherless women or women with weak fathers, regardless the culture. Making it without a father is a great feat, but in my observation women are much more susceptible to arrogance if they do that. And generally lack a sense of humility as people don't really like to break their arrogance (Men on the other hand get humbled just for existing a lot of times).
It becomes more of a generational disease then. A woman with no father would choose a man who is controllable. Which is like being sub human to a woman. And she would spew that venom on her kids. The girls will pick up the attitude of entitlement and huge ego just for existing. Nothing is ever good enough for these women, even though they'd be worse off if not for the men in their lives. All the while making her sons also weak.
LolTroll11 1y ago
Whenever women are involved in a discussion, you can never criticize women's behaviors. Women today can't take criticism at all.
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
Actually you aren't married because you are looking for a housewife in a hoe market. It's like trying to find vegetables at a meat market. Not gonna happen but maybe it could if someone retarded goes to the wrong place...
winteryknight WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
I hope you guys like this! If you have any suggestions for changes, let me know.
Land_of_the_losers the-niceguy.com 1y ago
I think you said what you needed to say.
Really, the whole public spectacle seems to be a pathetic echo of the #MeToo madness, wherein a very small faction of the entertainment media industry reacted to the election of Trump by going after the richest segments of that industry, as if the displaced rage had to funnel into a lava tube and erupt somewhere else. There was an incredible reactionary character to the whole thing, what with the whole "presumption of innocence" nuisance being laid aside as a mere technicality. The fact that many of the most high-profile cases fell apart upon submitting the accusations to the legal process appears to have gone down the memory hole. I expect that, were this current set of accusations to make it to court, it would show us that a great deal of information was being withheld and/or the accusations were wildly hyped-up. But by then, attention will have shifted elsewhere and the whole thing will be forgotten.
winteryknight WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
I think some of those high profile cases had the effect of causing ordinary, innocent men to stop desiring deep relationships with women. It's scary to me that so many women couldn't predict how this sort of behavior would put a chill on normal men. The risk of even speaking to a woman now is very high.
Land_of_the_losers the-niceguy.com 1y ago
The ladies can take heart: there is an unbelievable number of men who don't pay attention to that stuff or who imagine that their Chadliness will somehow protect them.
GimmeTheUsual Sr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
I really can't add a single thing. It captures the wasteland that is now dating and women in the West in general.
What do you do with such a framing? You admire it, and learn from it.
Good job, man.
winteryknight WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
Thank you. I hope that young women will understand that there is more to attracting a man than appearance. Men are leaders. They expect to lead.
lurkerhasarisen A Strategist Among Tacticians 1y ago
One of the things I've repeatedly written about is the link between responsibility and authority. The "provide and protect" part of traditional relationships goes to the heart of men's traditional responsibilities... but those things came at a cost to the women, and that cost was submitting to the man's authority.
Husbands were expected to put the welfare of their wives ahead of their own. A husband was expected to devote a huge portion of his time and effort toward acquiring resources that he would freely give to his wife and the children she bore him. He would also be expected to face any and all dangers on their behalf... to the point of laying down his life for them.
That's a LOT of responsibility, and the equation only works if responsibility matches authority on a one-to-one basis.
Parenthetically: I have locked horns with superiors who wanted me to accept responsibility for failures that would have been successes had they simply delegated the necessary authority to me. I flatly refuse to accept blame (or credit, for that matter) when I am denied the authority, resources, and latitude to act as I see fit.
That's true at work and at home, although the state holds men accountable while denying their authority. Indeed, a man attempting to exercise authority is subject to arrest for "domestic abuse."
It's not enough for a man to have authority... the extent of his authority over the family needs to match the extent of his responsibility to the family.
That means that wives were expected to recognize that their husbands rightfully had near-absolute authority over their behavior, dress, spending, etc..
Feminism teaches that husbands are not entitled to authority over their wives, yet women (...and the state... and TradCons...) demand that men retain their traditional responsibilities as protectors and providers (and complain when they don't).
But why should men play along? Responsibility without authority is the very essence of slavery... and what man wants to be some woman's slave (especially since women have contempt for men who don't lead)?
LolTroll11 1y ago
Almost everyone. That's what they have preached to the younger ones. Today, men are ready to give away their best in a relationship while they expect the bare minimum of women they would go into relationships. Don't be a hoe. And women are pushing that to be a negotiable.
Men want to slave away for women because they're nowadays raised with that world view. Couple it with "toxic masculinity" and men today are joke. Only men who don't buy this shit are the guys who have women in rotation.
Oddest-One-Here Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
Women should also know how to follow.
NotaBene Sr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
I will speak to the "even in the church" comments. This is close to my heart, because I've been hurt several times by this entity and started my own. I despise many elements of the church, and yet love her at the same time.
I no longer believe in State marriage at all, it's an outdated third-party contract system from which a man cannot benefit. There's just no reason to take on this risk. Never marry under the State. No matter what your religion, for a man it's just stupid. "In the church" is the only sense in which I believe in marriage anymore.
You are correct to seek a woman who respects and submits to you, or at least desires to. This is the call of every Christian wife. Many pay lip service to this but very few put it in practice.
As one of the very few men who has one of those "rare as rubies" wives and absolute authority (second only to God himself) in my own home, as well as respect/honor/obedience of my girls in all things, I can tell you there's nothing more fulfilling, it's the only reason to marry at all - the secret hope of every man. Of course a husband has boundaries/laws/rules and of course a wife should respect them. The fact that you have to defend yourself in this means our society is completely cucked already, and the church has lost authority and ability to enforce this. The fact that our country is actually angered by a wife who makes it her purpose to please her husband means we lost that fight to feminism a long time ago.
That's pretty much the conclusion. I want all men to have what I do, but it makes me sad that most men will never will. Not to shame men, but things will only change when we demand change en masse. We have more power than we know, and women will continue to get away with whatever we let them get away with. We must deny them attention, validation, protection, and provision unless they earn it.
You see little hints of this already, like the recent "tradwife" movement. It's deeply flawed, sometimes cringe, but at least some women are responding to what men desire in a wife.
Oddest-One-Here Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
Feminism is the weapon of the state.
winteryknight WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
" Not to shame men, but things will only change when we demand change en masse. "
I think this will work.
Overkill_Engine WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
And then they wonder why men don't bother to communicate and just pump and dump at the first hoe-sign. Why even tell a woman anything if she isn't going to listen? Let the stupid bitch walk off the cliff.
And men are going to have to learn to be even more cold and ruthless than the most hypergamous gold digger if we want this bullshit to ever stop. Let these women fall of their own accord, and then absolutely refuse to lift a single finger to help them. Never contribute anything to society unless your needs are immediately being met. Let the machine grind and shudder to a halt for lack of maintenance and fuel. Become an absolute tyrant in the rule of your personal life and never let them forget that the rules of "patriarchy" were for their benefit, not yours.
ogrilla99 Pez "The Pussy Dispenser" Pimp 1y ago
I agree. My first response to this was to think Jonah Hill's only mistake was to verbalize his boundaries. Nothing good comes of it. A woman intrinsically understands that it's disrespecting to her boyfriend to put out ass selfies for likes from thirsty guys.
Don't believe her BS that she doesn't know it is, because I'm sure she expects reciprocal discretion: that is, she'll flip her shit if he continues to flirt with women wherever they go. That meme of the guy looking back admiringly at a girl walking by, as his girlfriend looks on disapprovingly, is a thing after all, and everyone understands it. So just like a guy in a relationship is not supposed to flirt or even stare at hot women, women know it's disrespectful to trawl for male approval once you have a boyfriend.
So Jonah Hill laying out those boundaries isn't really teaching her anything new. She already knows what he's saying. Her refusal to abide by those boundaries stems from 2 possible sources: a) she's so addicted to social media validation that she's willing to risk losing her relationship rather than losing that validation or b) she's betting on Hill being too weak to enforce those boundaries. Neither of these things can be cured by communication. This is one of those things where a woman either intrinsically understands and agrees with you already, or she doesn't. Even if Brady did what Hill asked her to do, you know she does it reluctantly, will resent him for it, and likely break that promise if/when she can't suppress the urge any longer. Who wants to build a long-term relationship with that kind of risk?
The only thing Hill should have done is, observe her natural, intrinsic behavior, decide whether he's okay with that behavior or not, and (assuming he's not), simply ghost her and leave. He doesn't owe her an explanation, and regardless the explanation won't help her improve; it'll only enrage her, which is what it did.
Women like to harp about "communication" all the time, as if somehow communication can resolve all conflicts. Bullshit. Some conflicts come about from deeply held or ingrained beliefs / values / needs / etc. This is one of them. And no amount of communication is going to change either party when it comes to something this important to their happiness. Best to part ways amicably (which is what he proposed and ultimately did), and find someone else. As a side benefit, it keeps harpies from screeching about emotional abuse.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 1y ago
Nah, there's a good way to let them know your boundaries, and he was close. In fact, he nailed it at first, but then kept talking when it was time to act.
Simply say "I don't commit to women who __".
That's all there is to it. No threats, no ultimatums, and definitely no pleading or cajoling.
Overkill_Engine WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
Yup. Reposting my comments related to Jonah Hill on TRP on the shithole site:
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
First off, minor quibble, this is a great article but probably belongs in WhereAllTheGoodMenAre.
My first real girlfriend back 30 years ago pulled a shit test on me asking me “what are you thinking?” I failed and that was the beginning of the decline of the relationship as she ran more shit tests up the flagpole. Women gripe that men don’t communicate “honestly” and then punish us if we do. Their argument, and many in society will make, that men should mold ourselves into a “perfect man” what women desire of us so we can “communicate” that honestly, but at the same time be “leaders” but instead, that just produces a bunch of beta bucks running around trying to become what the female hive mind demands of him.
What are men supposed to do? Live in monk-mode for the first 10 years of his adult life doing nothing but improving ourselves so that we can wife up increasingly mediocre, unavailable women? It’s ho-flation.
So dating for men increasingly means, as you said, being as rapaciously manipulative as women have traditionally been learning game and treating her in the short term as a sexual objective because being marriage minded risks getting friendzoned or exploited. Thankfully, women don’t respect blue pilled men which saves us the bother of shaming them. Women punish “nice guys” more ruthlessly than we could.
I chuckle at the “real man” “protector and provider” role which, quite frankly, has been a form of serfdom and slavery since civilization began: Serfs were ordered to work from dawn to dusk to make a nobleman (and his “lady”) comfortable or conscripted into combat to fight to expand the nobleman’s wealth for bragging rights. Who works as hard as he can in corporate America for a “work ethic” nowadays simply to make his boss rich?
I read an argument that men need to collectively rise up and throw off the yoke and that’s true, but Rule 1 says I have to not shame men and recognize how easy it sounds to say that but tough to implement hence why, thankfully, women and society have destroyed the western protector-provider beta male mindset. I talk with boomers who try to shame modern men and point out that a society that doesn’t respect such men, doesn’t deserve them. (Older) Boomer man could work at a minimum wage job, pay off college as he attended, beta male date a woman with a low body count, and buy a “starter” SF home with a 15 year mortgage.
Finally, I think what fuels the outrage regarding Jonah Hill is that he’s not a hot guy but “knows his worth” and dares to set standards or “boundaries” and this enrages the entitlement queens who think that normal men should worship them as goddesses. They worry that if Jonah can do this, who else?
winteryknight WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
I'm good with moving it. I honestly hesitated about where to put it. I don't know how to move it, we need to summon a moderator.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 1y ago Stickied
There's no moving it, unless a mod removes the post here (or you delete it), and then you repost it at WATGMA.
I think it's fine to leave it; I'd hate to lose the comments I've seen so far.
winteryknight WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
OK, thank you!
Oddest-One-Here Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
Is this thread an example of we will accept it this time, but next time put it in WATGMA then?
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 1y ago
Yes, that and @winteryknight was a WAATGM endorsed contributor before I ever even knew what reddit was, so I'll give him some leeway out of respect for his many contributions over the years.
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Overkill_Engine WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
Yeah one has to vet a woman's family just as much as they vet the woman and her relationship to them.
If her father is a permissive pushover or a typical metro dwelling bugman, then that is a red flag. She's going to lack discipline in the face of temptation. And temptation will happen.